Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 5

[voominvava]

Is it customary for LE to be so quiet? I've asked before but my question has gone unanswered.

It seems to me the community usually gets more information.

Precisely my point! Something is up for them to be so quiet. (I wasn't discussing fb, just referring to it as a source of a lot of our previously discussed current information :blushing: )

 

[enzeder]

Farmers wife-the route you said you used to bypass Norwich I've added a map & points used to map it in my albums. Could you check if that's the route you were referring to?

I made the album public for all that want to see, it look like if you wanted to go from JRs home & avoid town you could take this route & avoid passing the location of the minivan 2x but still reach the phones location.

Where is the album Caring4Many? tia

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Regarding Caring4Many's post with great questions/observations/comments...

I, too, am VERY curious about GR and JR's other property(ies)...

Where is/are it/they located?... Are they developed (home, etc. )?

Is it in NY? .... Is it within a half day's driving distance?

TIA..:seeya:

 

[Caring4Many]

Where is the album Caring4Many? tia

If you go to my WS profile I have an album in there.

 

[enzeder]

If you go to my WS profile I have an album in there.

Thank you..I have a map that shows an alternate route too. I'll go have a look at yours now.

 

[LolaAngelina]

I'm hoping I can get us rolling again at a good pace & keep us all outta trouble? :crazy:
I've been thinking about a few things & also reading over at www.jenniferramsaran.com (previously cleared to discuss for those that don't know I made sure to ask). I have a few things I thought I'd bring up for possible discussion-feel free to tell me they were already discussed before I joined. I apologize now for all my extra wordiness!
1a-Did JR have a steady hair dresser? If so, did she (hairdresser or JR) ever redo her hair? You can easily mess up your color if you don't know what you're doing. What was the color difference between the color she had just had done & what was the box color?
1b-The found hair clippings -long or short- could she have cut bangs?Was she just trimming ends? She was just at the hair dressers can't think why most of this was done.
2-What other type of land do they own? rental apartments? Just land itself to build on later? This was probably covered but does JR parents own their portion of their land?
3-We've discussed the late timeliness of GR talking to media-in a lot of missing persons cases other people plead for their return-why has the media not sought out the parents, sister, best friend or even asked neighbors for their opinions? For example-lets say she is out there-read this & tell me this isn't a message that a "lost" (not as in missing, as in feeling) person would need to hear, even if this is someone you may be upset with. Eileen: Jen, my heart is broken.. I miss you so much. your laugh your ''jenisums'' as you call them. all our chats and road trips! listening to you sing to the radio in the car... hanging out at jenny's gym... there's just so many great memories. I cant tell you how worried we all are for you! Jen, if its in your power please give your family some kind of sign and know that a piece of us is with you always to give you strength.. I love you Jen (source-http://jenniferramsaran.blogspot.com/p/messages-to-jennifer.html)
4-If GR hadn't heard from JR all day & that was unusual -did he contact anyone else to see if she'd called or texted them? Why wait until evening to alert LE?
5- If there were cameras showing GR running as per Lavandas post wouldn't those same cameras have caught JRs vehicle passing through town? How good are their feeds-could we tell who was driving & if she was alone? Or at least what time her vehicle past through that area?
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - #4

Ok my apologies for throwing so much out at once. I'm saving the rest for later. What are everyone's thoughts?

Good post Caring 4 many! Let me see if I can answer some of these.
1a and 1b - I think it may have been confirmed she went to the hairdressers. It is continually released as info and I would think it would be very easy for LE to find her hairdresser and confirm this.
Unless of course she coloured her hair herself?
As for the cuttings, we don't know if this even true as this isnt confirmed by LE and is GR's word only.
Having said that, if its true I don't see why its such a big deal. I have had haircuts before and a few days later I think hmm that fringe seems a bit lopsided and have cut a bit myself. Even though you can go back and get the hairdresser and get it fixed, I feel like I would be hurting their feelings.
Jen from what we have heard, seems to have a quiet and polite personality, so she may have thought the same way.
Leaving the hair in the sink makes no sense though. GR has said (I'm sorry I can't remember where) that after he dropped off the kids he went home and did work on the computer while Jen tidied and did things around the house.
Why would she be cleaning up but leave a sink full of hair? If she changed the colour to disguise herself as she was running away, why leave the hair cuttings in the sink to show the colour?
And of course, why change and colour it at home and then kiss your husband goodbye so he gets a good look at the new style?
IMO the only reason this was mentioned was to add to the runaway story.
2 - Not sure about what else they own? It has been mentioned they sold their home in Arizona, but I assume it was to buy the one they have now.
I'm pretty sure her parents don't own any part of their land.
3. I would think media would have contacted parents etc. IMO they are not talking as they feel they know what happened to JR and who did it.
The last thing they want to do is anger the person that currently has custody of the grandkids.
As for the message from Eileen. If I was JR and had been reading everything and had seen all the comments about an affair (going with the assumption she didn't already know) and then read that message.
I couldn't be more angry and think how fake it was, and would be more inclined to not come home. I do get what you are saying about messages, I just think you picked the wrong persons message.
4. Yep this was one of the early questions we have asked again and again and never got an answer. We have confirmation he spoke to Jens parents, but only to let them know she hadn't come home. You would think most people would call everyone and everywhere to find someone before calling LE
5. Would love to know the answer to that one too. I would think LE would def. have that info. They would also have security cameras from destiny and would know whether she made it there or not.

 

[Kimster]

Is it customary for LE to be so quiet? I've asked before but my question has gone unanswered.

It seems to me the community usually gets more information.

Different departments have different ideas on what to release to the public and what to hold back. They tend to decide based on their experience with what tactic will help their investigation.

 

[dansmom]

I would think that if the community was in any danger as a result of the evidence that LE has they would share it, otherwise keep all information close as it is important to proving a case.

 

[LivingJuicy]

To compare Jennifer missing, I often think about Katrina Smith. I don't think it was ever suggested that she left on her own accord though. It was almost assumed that it was foul play from the get go. Then only a matter of time of finding the perp. It ended up being her husband. We early on pointed fingers at him but I think in general, no one would have suspected. He was a small guy, they had no history of documented abuse, etc.

Which gets me thinking and I can't steer away from it, IMO - that the whole thought of Jennifer leaving her family was nothing but a big fat red herring. Some twist to point away from more obvious reasons.

I still would have never suspected that someone who knew Jenn would harm her. I'd be behind my computer pointing fingers at local RSO's. Because of the conflicting stories and lack of evidence that she was a victim of foul play, my mind and opinion hasn't waivered much at all. Unfortunately.

BTW - I meant to add earlier to jump of Caring's post. Jennifer on her old myspace had taken a survey and when asked about coloring her hair, at the time she said she only put a rinse on it.

Again, if she had a hair appointment a few days prior to going missing, I doubt she cut her own hair that morning. Makes no sense at all. JMO

 

[Farmers Wife]

Farmers wife-the route you said you used to bypass Norwich I've added a map & points used to map it in my albums. Could you check if that's the route you were referring to?

I made the album public for all that want to see, it look like if you wanted to go from JRs home & avoid town you could take this route & avoid passing the location of the minivan 2x but still reach the phones location.

Caring4Many - For some reason I couldn't find the map in your profile, but I looked on a map and here is the route - State Route 23 to County Road 32 to State Route 320 to State Route 12 to County Road 44. This route bypasses Norwich and is actually a little quicker if you are going 23 to Syracuse.

 

[Caring4Many]

Good post Caring 4 many! Let me see if I can answer some of these.
1a and 1b - I think it may have been confirmed she went to the hairdressers. It is continually released as info and I would think it would be very easy for LE to find her hairdresser and confirm this.
Unless of course she coloured her hair herself?
As for the cuttings, we don't know if this even true as this isnt confirmed by LE and is GR's word only.
Having said that, if its true I don't see why its such a big deal. I have had haircuts before and a few days later I think hmm that fringe seems a bit lopsided and have cut a bit myself. Even though you can go back and get the hairdresser and get it fixed, I feel like I would be hurting their feelings.
Jen from what we have heard, seems to have a quiet and polite personality, so she may have thought the same way.
Leaving the hair in the sink makes no sense though. GR has said (I'm sorry I can't remember where) that after he dropped off the kids he went home and did work on the computer while Jen tidied and did things around the house.
Why would she be cleaning up but leave a sink full of hair? If she changed the colour to disguise herself as she was running away, why leave the hair cuttings in the sink to show the colour?
And of course, why change and colour it at home and then kiss your husband goodbye so he gets a good look at the new style?
IMO the only reason this was mentioned was to add to the runaway story.
2 - Not sure about what else they own? It has been mentioned they sold their home in Arizona, but I assume it was to buy the one they have now.
I'm pretty sure her parents don't own any part of their land.
3. I would think media would have contacted parents etc. IMO they are not talking as they feel they know what happened to JR and who did it.
The last thing they want to do is anger the person that currently has custody of the grandkids.
As for the message from Eileen. If I was JR and had been reading everything and had seen all the comments about an affair (going with the assumption she didn't already know) and then read that message.
I couldn't be more angry and think how fake it was, and would be more inclined to not come home. I do get what you are saying about messages, I just think you picked the wrong persons message.
4. Yep this was one of the early questions we have asked again and again and never got an answer. We have confirmation he spoke to Jens parents, but only to let them know she hadn't come home.You would think most people would call everyone and everywhere to find someone before calling LE
5. Would love to know the answer to that one too. I would think LE would def. have that info. They would also have security cameras from destiny and would know whether she made it there or not.

1- My thought in this was if she had cut bangs -this would give reason for a different look for people to be looking for or an alternate photo to look for. Say she was driving her caravan but had bangs -some that don't know her may not
connect the two. I'd agree with the rest being nothing of content & I myself while not necessarily quiet would find it more difficult to get to the hairdresser than just snip a small piece on my own.
2-This was in reference to Bearangel saying they owned 2 properties.
3- There's no reason a plea from JRs parents should anger GR-if they leave his name out of it. As for ES-I know who made the comment & while most of it would be livid by it given the situation, my point was if she was "despondent" as some claims, she may not see that as the rest of us would. JMO.

Thank you for taking so much time & going through my ramblings!:blushing:

 

[Caring4Many]

Caring4Many - For some reason I couldn't find the map in your profile, but I looked on a map and here is the route - State Route 23 to County Road 32 to State Route 320 to State Route 12 to County Road 44. This route bypasses Norwich and is actually a little quicker if you are going 23 to Syracuse.

I'll take a look thanks....

Can you see this? I'm hoping anyone that wants to see can.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/album.php?albumid=1690

***just pulled up my map that's exactly it! Lol thanks!***

 

[nursebeeme]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8889566&posted=1#post8889566

folks, our verified sar (sarx) is on the sar thread for Jennifer right now if any of you have anything you would like to add re: search, maps, etc.

link to that thread is above

 

[Janeumayer]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8889566&posted=1#post8889566

folks, our verified sar (sarx) is on the sar thread for Jennifer right now if any of you have anything you would like to add re: search, maps, etc.

link to that thread is above

Thank you for opening a SAR Thread! Let's find Jennifer!

 

[thefox]

I'm hoping I can get us rolling again at a good pace & keep us all outta trouble? :crazy:
I've been thinking about a few things & also reading over at www.jenniferramsaran.com (previously cleared to discuss for those that don't know I made sure to ask). I have a few things I thought I'd bring up for possible discussion-feel free to tell me they were already discussed before I joined. I apologize now for all my extra wordiness!
1a-Did JR have a steady hair dresser? If so, did she (hairdresser or JR) ever redo her hair? You can easily mess up your color if you don't know what you're doing. What was the color difference between the color she had just had done & what was the box color?
1b-The found hair clippings -long or short- could she have cut bangs?Was she just trimming ends? She was just at the hair dressers can't think why most of this was done.
2-What other type of land do they own? rental apartments? Just land itself to build on later? This was probably covered but does JR parents own their portion of their land?
3-We've discussed the late timeliness of GR talking to media-in a lot of missing persons cases other people plead for their return-why has the media not sought out the parents, sister, best friend or even asked neighbors for their opinions? For example-lets say she is out there-read this & tell me this isn't a message that a "lost" (not as in missing, as in feeling) person would need to hear, even if this is someone you may be upset with. Eileen: Jen, my heart is broken.. I miss you so much. your laugh your ''jenisums'' as you call them. all our chats and road trips! listening to you sing to the radio in the car... hanging out at jenny's gym... there's just so many great memories. I cant tell you how worried we all are for you! Jen, if its in your power please give your family some kind of sign and know that a piece of us is with you always to give you strength.. I love you Jen (source-http://jenniferramsaran.blogspot.com/p/messages-to-jennifer.html)
4-If GR hadn't heard from JR all day & that was unusual -did he contact anyone else to see if she'd called or texted them? Why wait until evening to alert LE?
5- If there were cameras showing GR running as per Lavandas post wouldn't those same cameras have caught JRs vehicle passing through town? How good are their feeds-could we tell who was driving & if she was alone? Or at least what time her vehicle past through that area?
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - #4

Ok my apologies for throwing so much out at once. I'm saving the rest for later. What are everyone's thoughts?

No one can verify #5 its only hearsay especially from a certain camp

 

[PennyFlower]

1- My thought in this was if she had cut bangs -this would give reason for a different look for people to be looking for or an alternate photo to look for. Say she was driving her caravan but had bangs -some that don't know her may not
connect the two. I'd agree with the rest being nothing of content & I myself while not necessarily quiet would find it more difficult to get to the hairdresser than just snip a small piece on my own.
2-This was in reference to Bearangel saying they owned 2 properties.
3- There's no reason a plea from JRs parents should anger GR-if they leave his name out of it. As for ES-I know who made the comment & while most of it would be livid by it given the situation, my point was if she was "despondent" as some claims, she may not see that as the rest of us would. JMO.

Thank you for taking so much time & going through my ramblings!:blushing:

This has bothered me for quite some time. I don't understand the silence from Jennifer's parents & sister. I don't see how a plea for Jennifer's return could hurt anything. In fact, if GR is innocent like he says he is, a plea from her parents could help him bring his wife home - a win-win. OR, if he's as guilty as most people believe, it could actually help him relax and feel "safe"/"comfortable" which is when a lot of criminals slip up. Why keep the silence. What do they know?

 

[LivingJuicy]

Just bumping again for Jenn. I think of her so often. It makes me sad that I can't imagine her being alive. I would live to be wrong...


Something had to have happened to her. What!?

 

[PennyFlower]

Just bumping again for Jenn. I think of her so often. It makes me sad that I can't imagine her being alive. I would live to be wrong...


Something had to have happened to her. What!?

Hope. You have to have hope. There is no concrete evidence at this time that Jennifer is deceased.

"Hope can be a powerful force. Maybe there's no actual magic in it, but when you know what you hope for most and hold it like a light within you, you can make things happen, almost like magic.”
― Laini Taylo (Daughter of Smoke and Bone)

Jennifer, if you're out there and reading here - everyone misses you SO very much!

 

[Jilllian]

Is it customary for LE to be so quiet? I've asked before but my question has gone unanswered.

It seems to me the community usually gets more information.

I'm pretty sure I can say this, but if not, please modify/delete.

The sense I get is that a large part of the community and surrounding community has bought into the idea that Jennifer has left on her own. This is pretty much the only angle presented TO the media and FROM the media. In my opinion, the ones who pretty much know or believe she's no longer with us, are being passive in their acceptance of this.

This is unfortunate. There is no one speaking to the media saying that they believe she did NOT leave on her own. And people close to JR very firmly do NOT believe that she would, or did leave willingly.

Personally, I'm saddened and frustrated by the amount of times I hear, "Oh, she didn't come back yet?" and "You're still looking for her? Obviously she doesn't want to be found."

A local police officer (NOT IN ANY WAY INVOLVED IN THIS CASE ~ completely different jurisdiction) said to me last night, "Why even bother?" He meant, "Just let the police do their job."

I know who he is, so I felt somewhat comfortable in saying, "If your loved one was out there somewhere, and there were hundreds of people ready, willing and able to pound pavement to find her, secure billboards, pass flyers out, spread the word etc., would you personally say 'No, why bother?" and then turn them away?

This case will surely go cold if no noise, and a lot of it isn't heard soon.

 

[krey]

Someone above mentioned Katrina Smith in comparison to this case (I think it was you, LivingJuicy), so I looked it up. Looks like searchers found several items in her case:

http://rockrivertimes.com/2012/11/28/katrina-smith’s-husband-charged-with-her-murder-2/

During a search conducted by family and friends Oct. 26, paper towels were recovered with a substance believed to be blood on them. These items were recovered in a field between Obispo and Ralston Road. Her cell phone was recovered in the 700 block of Ralston Thursday, Oct. 25.

Also Thursday, Oct. 25, Katrina Smith’s wallet was turned over to the Winnebago County Sheriff’s Department. The wallet had been recovered by a citizen in the roadway of a Rockford street and turned in to a business as found property.