Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 8

[Abigail]

People in hyperthermia (?) tend to undress. Do we know if her clothes were found nearby?

Believe me, I am not taking a stand that she was not murdered. Just fear it may be hard to prove, if in fact they do not know how she died.

Um...and what would she be doing on Center Road suffering from hyperthermia when she was supposed to be on her way to the mall?? Parked her van at the apartments and decided to walk to Syracuse???

:waitasec:

 

[cluciano63]

Um...and what would she be doing on Center Road suffering from hyperthermia when she was supposed to be on her way to the mall?? Parked her van at the apartments and decided to walk to Syracuse???

:waitasec:

I am just doing a defense attorney thing, we have heard crazier theories over the years. One might say she only told her husband she would be gone shopping all day, when really she was suicidal and planned to take a bunch of pills, etc....

I am only thinking of these weird theories as I am worried about whether or not LE can prove cause and manner of death. If not, it leaves the door open to all kinds of bizarre theories.

 

[Abigail]

MSM has reported that no clothing or other belongings were found in the area where her body was discovered.

OK, so now we have a scenario where she parked her van at the apartments, stripped naked, and walked the 15 miles in the rain to Center Road where she finally succombed to hyperthermia.

Astounding that no one happened to notice!!:what:

 

[Foxfire]

Originally Posted by Foxfire
Imo, if volunteer searchers had not been discouraged by Chenango County Sheriff Ernest Cutting Jr., in Dec 2012. Jennifer Ramsaran, may have been located months ago.
Why would you not use all available resources to locate a missing mother who had dissapeared under suspicious circumstances? The reason/excuse given was that evidence may be contaminated or destroyed.

How much forensic & other valuable evidence was destroyed by her exposure to the elements for months? This antiquated investigative strategy and reasoning only leads to
additional cold cases and allows perps to evade justice, imo..

Awareness is the key in missing/murdered investigations.
"Silence is the predators most lethal weapon"
RIP..Jennifer Ramsaran

Feb 27, 2013 http://www.stargazette.com/article/20130227/NEWS01/302270003/Woman-s-body-discovered-Chenango-County

Woman's body discovered in Chenango County
PHARSALIA — The body of an unidentified woman was recovered Tuesday by the Chenango County Sheriff’s Office off Center Road in the Town of Pharsalia.

The body was taken to the Onondaga County Medical Examiner’s Office in Syracuse for an autopsy. The woman’s identity is unknown to investigators and the investigation is continuing, Sheriff Ernest R. Cutting said.

The Chenango County Sheriff’s office was assisted at the scene by the New York State Police and Chenango County Bureau of Fire.

 

[Abigail]

Yes, tox takes a very long time, two months seems to be the average. I do not know why. Maybe some tests take that long to process?? Or is every lab in the country on a two-month backlog? Wouldn't possible murder victims, which must be relatively few, take precedence over drug screens, etc.?

One would think. Of course, in the initial tox screens, a body hadn't yet been found, so LE may not have been as sure about foul play (although blood stains in the van, and a 4 day search of the Ramsaran home and property are clues that they had strong suspicions).

 

[Abigail]

Culturally, he may never have got that directive

He posted it on his Facebook. Said his Dad taught him that when he was like 4 years old.

 

[BearAngel]

This evening, I watched an candle light vigil for those killed in Herkimer NY...yesterday! I was very impressed with the way it was organized, for those killed, by local young people...using social media...It was dignified, respectable, and it is a very raw day for them...both emotional, as well as the weather....

I am going to contact YNN and see if we cannot get some interest in getting out more information for Jen....Perhaps we can get our local stations to pick up the story again...
I just found it so thoughtful for them to show the vigil, and have such a compassionate approach to a town dealing with tragedy. They showed pictures, videos and told something about each victim.

How refreshing to see MSM helping them cope, instead of what seems like a circus for our beautiful Jennifer. It may not be perfectly professional, but the vigil was heartfelt, and am sure it will be remembered always as a comfort to the families.
Here is the link.. http://centralny.ynn.com/content/to...t-vigil-for-herkimer-county-shooting-victims/

I wish this had been done for Jen...in the right way...at the right time...and maybe gotten the correct information out in the beginning...but it is never too late...I do not believe that Jen chose to leave the world that fateful day...and months later, there are only some crazy interviews, and the thought that a mother chose to run off on her own, with the exception of Joe Mahoney (Daily Star)...Who knows..maybe the local news are frightened of the man who truly enjoys being called psycho...but there are many who care about her family and friends....

Thoughts??? Any ideas on how best to present the truth, of the good things about Jen to the media...I am tired of explaining that she did not run off, and just choose to lie down a bank, in the cold, unclothed...Help?????lease:

 

[Foxfire]

One of the tactics that Prolific Serial Killer Gary M. Hilton, utilized was that he factored in Hunting season dates when he abducted many of his unsuspecting victims. Meredith Hope Emerson was abducted on 01/01/2008; one day after GA, big game hunting season ended. Hunters are very observant and are the eyes and ears of the forest, analogous to a video camera..
Seems, the more that we learn about JR's killer. A more complete picture is beginning to emerge of a very calculating sociopath, who meticulously planned out her demise, imo..

Chenango County NY is in the Southern Hunting Zone

http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/1213guidebiggame.pdf

SOUTHERN ZONE

Regular Firearms Season - Southern Zone NY
Nov. 17–Dec. 9
Late Bowhunting
Dec. 10–Dec. 18
Early Bowhunting Oct. 1–Nov. 16

Late Muzzleloader Season Deer of Either Sex

Dec. 10–Dec. 18

 

[Janeumayer]

Indeed, we do not even know if this is a homicide as yet. Of course, the way she was found is suspicious, but if she is found to have consumed a lethal amount of meds, for instance, LE may have a hard time proving she did not take them herself. While her husband has said and behaved in a most unusual manner, that won't be enough, IMO.

Hoping LE's silence means they do not need help from the public, rather than that they do not even know what sort of case they have.

I tell you, this is a side by side comparison case to the Gerard Baden-Clay in Australia.

 

[Janeumayer]

Where are these pics? I'd be interested in seeing them too.

Ill try finding them. Saw them this past week.

 

[cluciano63]

I tell you, this is a side by side comparison case to the Gerard Baden-Clay in Australia.

Didn't they know cause of death, though? Or am I mistaken?
(Not saying they don't know in this case, just worried they might not.)
I know in AU they often won't release COD but I thought they did know it, early on.

 

[BearAngel]

Yes, this is what I think. I would also guess that her husband is the most likely POI. But what circumstantial evidence is there of his having murdered her? Even his strange behavior after her disappearance does not count as circumstantial evidence, though it speaks of his character and disposition.

This case reminds me a bit of the Gail Palmgren case. Most here were ready to string her husband up (and perhaps still are) for months and months. He was having an affair, but he was cleared of any responsibility in her death (which was either suicide or an accident).

Good call!!! It reads just about like this case...with more detail...but in my own mind, I believe he (her husband) helped her off the road...can I prove it?...sadly...NO...but in the case of JR and GR...she forgot to take a vehicle and her clothing with her, when she went off of the road...to me it is all about being "gaslighted"....can I prove it?....not yet...thanks for adding that case...Gail was beautiful too:seeya:

 

[Janeumayer]

Didn't they know cause of death, though? Or am I mistaken?
(Not saying they don't know in this case, just worried they might not.)
I know in AU they often won't release COD but I thought they did know it, early on.

Her body was found after 11 or 12 days. They could not rule out suffocation/strangulation and her blood had very high levels of Zoloft. She also had a chipped tooth which made people believe she was forced to take the overdose of medication.

 

[Abigail]

Some of us were wondering about cadaver dogs a while back, and then I got to wondering -- how long after time of death can a trained dog tell if a body were dead or not? I found this site:
http://www.csst.org/cadaver_scent.html

In this test, one dog alerted to a dead body as early as 1 hour and 25 minutes after death, and all dogs alerted within 2 1/2 to 3 hours after death.

 

[marlywings]

Her body was found after 11 or 12 days. They could not rule out suffocation/strangulation and her blood had very high levels of Zoloft. She also had a chipped tooth which made people believe she was forced to take the overdose of medication.

Just thought I'd add this in for anyone who may like to read it. The case is currently going through the courts...committal hearing was held, Mon,Tues,Wed & another three days to go next week. This will decide if the accused goes to trial.

The accused's defence team has been trying to go with the suicide notion....

Baden-Clay most likely did not overdose on Zoloft: expert

March 14, 2013

A FORENSICS expert says he cannot rule out the possibility Allison Baden-Clay died from a toxic overdose of the prescription anti-depressant medication Zoloft, a court has heard.
The defence barrister for Gerard-Baden Clay, Peter Davis SC, quizzed the senior forensic medical officer with Queensland Health, Robert Hoskins, about the levels of setraline, known as Zoloft, in Baden-Clay's body.

Dr Hoskins said while he thought it unlikely Baden-Clay, 42, had taken a fatal dose, he could not rule it out.

The expert was appearing at a committal hearing in the Brisbane Magistrates Court to decide whether Mr Baden-Clay, 43, should face trial for his wife's murder.

Mr Baden-Clay has denied any involvement in the death or the disposal of his wife's body, which was found on April 30 last year on a muddy creek bed 14km from their home.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...on-zoloft-expert/story-e6frg6nf-1226596745692

 

[marlywings]

I also wanted to add. Forensic testing, toxicology, computers, phones etc takes quite a lot of time in these types of cases. It took, from memory, around 6 or 7 months before all the evidence, tests/results etc, were in & handed over to the defense team.

 

[marlywings]

From the same report I posted above...

However, under re-examination by prosecutor Danny Boyle, Dr Hoskins said it would be "exceptional" if Baden-Clay had died from Zoloft, given the level of the drug found in her blood.

He said an overdose from such a low amount had not been recorded in the scientific literature, and was consistent with a normal therapeutic dose.

Mr Boyle said: "So the level is too low?"

Dr Hoskins answered: "Yes".

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...on-zoloft-expert/story-e6frg6nf-1226596745692

 

[SouthAussie]

He posted it on his Facebook. Said his Dad taught him that when he was like 4 years old.

I didn't explain that well .... some cultures do not treat their sisters and daughters in the same manner in which we are taught to regard and protect our sisters and daughters.

(I also do not believe much of what he says in this matter)


ETA: Here in Oz we have girls with Indian backgrounds who are born in Australia and yet are still forced into arranged marriages (at very young ages) .. despite this being against the law here.

 

[zwiebel]

I won't post a link as it has no connection to this case, but there is someone from Sri Lanka using the name Efrerfe. I'm wondering if it is an actual name or has some other meaning?

 

[sleepinoz]

One would think. Of course, in the initial tox screens, a body hadn't yet been found, so LE may not have been as sure about foul play (although blood stains in the van, and a 4 day search of the Ramsaran home and property are clues that they had strong suspicions).

Abigail, I think you are confused - there were no previous "Tox Screens" mentioned - there was Laboratory Reports that LE was waiting for, mentioned here:

http://thedailystar.com/localnews/x730424430/Police-continue-probe-for-missing-woman

Tox Screens, according to Wikipedia are: Toxicology (from the Greek words τοξικός - toxicos "poisonous" and logos) is a branch of biology, chemistry, and medicine concerned with the study of the adverse effects of chemicals on living organisms.[1] It is the study of symptoms, mechanisms, treatments and detection of poisoning, especially the poisoning of people.

Toxicology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Laboratory reports can be many and different, Tox reports in my opinion can only be performed on a body.