Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 9

[Ace85FL]

I know for a fact that shortly after jr went missing LE along with dec rangers searched all the bridges, box culverts and pipes on SR 23 from Norwich to Cincinnatus.

I've never heard or saw any mention of in the media about such a search being conducted, or the involvement of the Department of Environmental Conservation Rangers in such a search, save for the search around the Ramsaran residence.

This was found in a Daily Star article written on December the 20th:

"Investigators interview missing woman's children" by Joe Mahoney

Snipped:
"On Wednesday, state troopers and forest rangers continued to conduct a ground search of the 18 acres surrounding the couple’s home. Cutting said the search produced no new solid clues."

I'm aware that Jennifer's parents had been searching, and that they had hired a private investigator to help.

The only other mention to a search in conjunction to the case that I am aware of, was the search that was planned around January 22nd, and the Sheriff coming out on the 22nd and prohibiting the public from searching.

Do you have a date for when these searches occurred along the SR-23 corridor?

Do you have a source or article to verify that such a search took place?

Are you an insider to the case or perhaps LE or a DEC Ranger by any chance to be privy to such information?

Because this is the first I've heard of any such searches along the SR-23 corridor between Norwich and Cincinnatus. I've heard no mention of it from family members, or locals in the area, until now.

Cincinnatus would be Cortland County jurisdiction, and therefore the Cortland County Sheriff's Department. I've not heard or seen mention of any involvement of Cortland County Sheriff's Department involved in the Jennifer Ramsaran case.

 

[Pob]

Pob, did Jen make any mention of her plans for the day when you talked the morning of her disappearance?

I didn't speak to her that morning, a friend we played with told me he had spoken to her though. I don't think they spoke what she planned to do that day.

 

[Pob]

Thank you!!

That game doesn't need pw, the game opens in your account as soon as you open the app. The phone is effectively the password.

 

[Sharoneonta]

I didn't speak to her that morning, a friend we played with told me he had spoken to her though. I don't think they spoke what she planned to do that day.

Thank you, I've been searching for an hour. I knew it had been stated that someone spoke to her that morning, I thought it was you, sorry for the confusion.

 

[zwiebel]

That game doesn't need pw, the game opens in your account as soon as you open the app. The phone is effectively the password.

But don't LE have Jennifer's phone still? Yet GR has been deleting things? Or could he have accessed the game from another device, using her password?

Sorry about all the questions. Last game I played was called space invaders. Little ball with teeth ate all the other balls with teeth, I think.

 

[Pob]

But don't LE have Jennifer's phone still? Yet GR has been deleting things? Or could he have accessed the game from another device, using her password?

Sorry about all the questions. Last game I played was called space invaders. Little ball with teeth ate all the other balls with teeth, I think.

Lol zwiebel There's an app completely removed from the game called Touch where you can share messages, photos, it's kind of similar to FB. Jenn shared lots of photos of the kids, which I can no longer view. This required log-in info and could be accessed from another device.

 

[Caring4Many]

My albums should now be fixed-Kimster got me all set I the right direction. Anyone that had previously wanted to see the screenshots I referenced should be able now.

 

[MsFacetious]

Hopefully Jillian will come to verify which of us is reading this correctly...

I didn't get the impression it was "confirmed" he failed.
I got the impression it was an assumption he failed, since he hasn't bragged about passing?

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, or Jillian made an earlier post that clarified it?
The response from Robin just agree with what Jillian said in this post. BBM.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - #9


pretty sure he had already taken a poly and failed prior to this date. if he had passed, would he not (still even now) be shouting it very loudly for all to hear, in an attempt to clear his name? he's been pretty vocal about his "air tight" alibis, so why not the results of the poly?

 

[LivingJuicy]

A new day...a new week...

In thinking things over it is clear that GR tries to lay the information down before the question is asked. Therefore he wants to pave the way for the "story" that he has created. So if we look at the things he has said...like he will always remember her smile...and if she only knew how much we loved her....past tense in his first interview...he knew she was not alive. He also got very clear and said she was losing weight in an unhealthy way....could that be part of COD?

I researched weight loss drugs..maybe she was taking them and she had a heart incident with them, they interacted with the current meds she was taking. From the beginning I thought that maybe they had an argument and she fell down the stairs...whether tripping on her own or being pushed....then he panicked and came up with the whole story.

He has mentioned the rapid weight loss multiple times...is that part of how she passed. When CC implied in her horrific commentary that maybe she passed naturally and he panicked...maybe this is what happened. JR being woozy from weight loss drugs or maybe not eating at all or even bulimia...who knows...but something he considers not natural....and she had an accident so he felt responsible because of the argument.

I think it takes a truly evil person to premeditate murder, but I can imagine him not wanting to be married to her anymore, wanting to move on with his new chickie, they argue, push each others buttons and an accident or even rage happened. What if she fell down the stairs and broke her neck....or hit her head...what if she was still conscious and he was taking her to the hospital and she passed in the car and he totally panicked.

I think that GR panicking is either really what happened or again...part of his defense.

Also I think that weight loss drugs or such will be part of it.....maybe a heart attack, stroke??

You're right, it does take a truly evil person to premeditate murder.

I think it would take a different type of evil person to take an accidental death and twist it to make it sound like initially Jennifer ran off, then that she was a victim of foul play. All the secrets that are hidden around Jennifer being harmed IMO are just as evil as this being pre-meditated - which unfortunately I believe to be the case.

I think that your post is great but it is giving him to much credit, jmo.

If god forbid, I argued with someone I love and they were injured, the last thing I would due would be to hide evidence and spin a story.

Not just to cover my butt but out of respect for the one I love.

I think that at the time of death, GR didn't love Jenn. I know for a fact that GR was angry at Jennifer during her death, how could he have been happy and good to her in her living.

:jail:

 

[terracotta]

I'm not buying the "panic after an accident" theory unless there was something nefarious happening in the first place.

I don't understand the reasoning behind going thru SO MUCH trouble to cover up an ACCIDENT.

Maybe I'm missing something that someone else can explain...

So you guys are missing my point. I am looking at THE WORDS spoken and written by both GR and CC. Whether there is truth in them or a defense tactic IDK...but CC has spent hours upon hours speaking with GR...and she is the one who wrote the "hypothesis" of someone or more than one, panicking and disposing of her body when JR passed from natural causes. Listening and reading what GR has said...he stresses certain things....the unhealthy weight loss is one stressed multiple times...why? Maybe he is laying the groundwork for his story...maybe there is some truth in it...IDK.

Instead of beating a dead horse I am trying to extrapolate information given by the husband and CC...if you look at the words.....do they mean something or not? As I believe that guilty people actually tell you all the facts, in their own way....I am open to listen to them and try to figure things out.

Anything can happen, and anyone can do anything...who knows...it would certainly be easy and didn't take much thought to bring her body up to that road, throw her phone and park the car...and hightail it to the y....not a lot a thought...at all.

What if she left for the mall and came back and ES was in a compromising position with GR...and she freaked and fell down the stairs and broke her neck....or anything....that would be a "natural" accidental death and it wasn't premeditated but what caused her fall was the reaction to her husbands actions...that is what I'm talking about...something where he felt responsible (guilty) and therefore didn't think things through..but knew it would be horrible to explain what happened at home....I don't know...I'm just thinking out loud....I will stop since my ideas are not getting received well....I just think words mean a lot...and people really tell you more than you think if we just listen.

 

[Sharoneonta]

I was referring to CCs "theory" of an "accident".

 

[LivingJuicy]

So you guys are missing my point. I am looking at THE WORDS spoken and written by both GR and CC. Whether there is truth in them or a defense tactic IDK...but CC has spent hours upon hours speaking with GR...and she is the one who wrote the "hypothesis" of someone or more than one, panicking and disposing of her body when JR passed from natural causes. Listening and reading what GR has said...he stresses certain things....the unhealthy weight loss is one stressed multiple times...why? Maybe he is laying the groundwork for his story...maybe there is some truth in it...IDK.

Instead of beating a dead horse I am trying to extrapolate information given by the husband and CC...if you look at the words.....do they mean something or not? As I believe that guilty people actually tell you all the facts, in their own way....I am open to listen to them and try to figure things out.

Anything can happen, and anyone can do anything...who knows...it would certainly be easy and didn't take much thought to bring her body up to that road, throw her phone and park the car...and hightail it to the y....not a lot a thought...at all.

What if she left for the mall and came back and ES was in a compromising position with GR...and she freaked and fell down the stairs and broke her neck....or anything....that would be a "natural" accidental death and it wasn't premeditated but what caused her fall was the reaction to her husbands actions...that is what I'm talking about...something where he felt responsible (guilty) and therefore didn't think things through..but knew it would be horrible to explain what happened at home....I don't know...I'm just thinking out loud....I will stop since my ideas are not getting received well....I just think words mean a lot...and people really tell you more than you think if we just listen.

IMO, the unhealthy weight loss and the majority of the other statements made by both CC and GR were all said in various stages of this investigation as a part of characterizing Jennifer.

There were quite a few that I can name off the top of my head -
The unhealthy weight loss
The changes in behavior comparing her to a child evolving into a teen overnight.
The implication that she may be on medication (let's leave it at that.) **IMO the implication was to make her sound as if she was mentally ill or reliant on meds to function**IMO**
The online gaming
The change in appearance

Just a few but I believe these comments weren't so much a defense at this point but more so finger pointing at her leaving the family.

Once that didn't stick and people challenged this theory the quietness kicked in for awhile and then it was all about missing her and believing he would see her again which never really made sense because if you KNOW she would never leave the family willingly, what would make you BELIEVE that she would return home alive?

Another theory he gave out that didn't stick. All were manifested by CC who IMO, wanted desperately to believe him. She probably helped evolve his stories unintentionally just by listening and offering up advice of what could have happened if she TRULY did leave or TRULY did meet someone else or TRULY did have a mental illness/breakdown.

This is all my opinion but I don't think GR ever planned a defense. If he is in fact guilty, I believe that he thought he would get away with it.

I don't know that he feels the same way now though..

 

[Hexe]

What if she left for the mall and came back and ES was in a compromising position with GR...and she freaked and fell down the stairs and broke her neck....or anything....that would be a "natural" accidental death and it wasn't premeditated but what caused her fall was the reaction to her husbands actions...that is what I'm talking about...something where he felt responsible (guilty)

He seems much too narcissistic to feel guilty of anything. These types do not feel guilty. Never ever. They always blame someone else, most often their victims.

 

[zwiebel]

Well, if Jennifer's neck was broken, there will be no need for us to worry about the case of death being undetermined. Personally, I don't feel that will be the case.

I don't really know why, but I feel most likely she was strangled, and the length of time she was outside, with possible damage to skin and eyes, made any outward signs impossible to discern. I think there is something in the neck called the hyoid? that could be broken or fractured though, that would make it possible to tell.

I am confident though, that if anyone should ever face charges over Jennifer's case, they will be convinced they know better than any attorney how to defend themselves. At least, that's what I'm hoping.

 

[LivingJuicy]

He seems much too narcissistic to feel guilty of anything. These types do not feel guilty. Never ever. They always blame someone else, most often their victims.

You got that right Hexe!

Can you believe that GR was actually mad at Jennifer because it forced the police to search his home?

Of course at that point he was still insisting that she would never have left willingly which was strange because his poor me attitude was still behaving as if she did leave and mad that she left. ( I wish she would have!)

Red flag there for sure. You're mad at someone who you know would never leave you. So wouldn't that make you realize that something's up?

Normally yes but I believe he knew all along where Jennifer was. He was mad at the unwanted attention. He wanted to get away with it all scott clean.

 

[Bettylou4you]

So you guys are missing my point. I am looking at THE WORDS spoken and written by both GR and CC. Whether there is truth in them or a defense tactic IDK...but CC has spent hours upon hours speaking with GR...and she is the one who wrote the "hypothesis" of someone or more than one, panicking and disposing of her body when JR passed from natural causes. Listening and reading what GR has said...he stresses certain things....the unhealthy weight loss is one stressed multiple times...why? Maybe he is laying the groundwork for his story...maybe there is some truth in it...IDK.

Instead of beating a dead horse I am trying to extrapolate information given by the husband and CC...if you look at the words.....do they mean something or not? As I believe that guilty people actually tell you all the facts, in their own way....I am open to listen to them and try to figure things out.

Anything can happen, and anyone can do anything...who knows...it would certainly be easy and didn't take much thought to bring her body up to that road, throw her phone and park the car...and hightail it to the y....not a lot a thought...at all.

What if she left for the mall and came back and ES was in a compromising position with GR...and she freaked and fell down the stairs and broke her neck....or anything....that would be a "natural" accidental death and it wasn't premeditated but what caused her fall was the reaction to her husbands actions...that is what I'm talking about...something where he felt responsible (guilty) and therefore didn't think things through..but knew it would be horrible to explain what happened at home....I don't know...I'm just thinking out loud....I will stop since my ideas are not getting received well....I just think words mean a lot...and people really tell you more than you think if we just listen.

In response to your last paragraph. I have always suspected she came back, whether it was out of suspicion that GR was up to someting or just that she forgot something. If he worked at home and she was also a sahm he would obvioulsy take advantage of some time alone. The mall trip is a conveniently long day out of the house for GR to be up to now good. I put money that she did leave the house and returned and an altercation ensued. Maybe she left, gave him time then came home, or followed him on his run and something happened on the road. He was always so adamant about there being 'nothing in the house'. Maybe she caught him running somewhere and the confrontation happened in the van. In his twisted way of telling the truth around lies he would rationalize that the house was 'clean' since it all happened in the van.

Also, maybe he left the van somewhere else with the keys in it and some unsuspecting joyrider found it and left it in the parking lot a day or so later? Who knows.

 

[zwiebel]

You got that right Hexe!

Can you believe that GR was actually mad at Jennifer because it forced the police to search his home?

Of course at that point he was still insisting that she would never have left willingly which was strange because his poor me attitude was still behaving as if she did leave and mad that she left. ( I wish she would have!)

Red flag there for sure. You're mad at someone who you know would never leave you. So wouldn't that make you realize that something's up?

Normally yes but I believe he knew all along where Jennifer was. He was mad at the unwanted attention. He wanted to get away with it all scott clean.

Mad at her!! For being missing?? What did he say?

 

[LivingJuicy]

Mad at her!! For being missing?? What did he say?

It was expressed to me just in general terms that he was mad that she left him and mad that this caused the police to be involved, i.e. - searching the home.

All the while proclaiming she never would have left voluntarily, however; having other's believing that she left him for someone else or was having an emotional breakdown.

I heard this from someone who believed that she left for various personal reasons and the personal actually believed that GR had a good right to be mad! As if she was putting him through something!

What a shame.

 

[zwiebel]

Mmmmmm........wonder what that person's thinking now?

 

[Foxfire]

http://criminalminds.wikia.com/wiki/Roger_L._Depue

Dr. Depue, one of the pioneers of the FBI's Behavior Science Unit, was first assigned there in 1974 as a Supervisory Special Agent. He served as an instructor and researcher until his promotion to the position of Chief of Behavioral Sciences in 1980, a post he held until his retirement from the FBI in 1989.
His research led him to coin the term "leakage", which basically means that one's fantasies consciously or subconsciously tend to leak out. It also allows offender profilers to obtain information on a criminal's motivation.