NY - Karina Vetrano, 30, found murdered, Queens, 2 Aug 2016 #1

[liz b.]

ITA. Nobody knew she was going to run there alone that day. If nobody was following her, then the perp was in the park. Perp might have been in the park, not necessarily looking for victims, but saw an opportunity.

Unless she shared it on soc media we don't know who knew anything about her day. jmo

 

[Madeleine74]

We've seen many instances of this exact kind of crime: young woman alone, in a place where she becomes prey, some sick perp sees his opportunity and grabs her. Crimes of opportunity. Just to name a few:

- Hannah Graham
- Morgan Harrington
- Chelsea King
- Sierah Joughin


The killing is done afterwards to eliminate the only witness, which is the victim herself.

 

[jjenny]

We've seen many instances of this exact kind of crime: young woman alone, in a place where she becomes prey, some sick perp sees his opportunity and grabs her. Crimes of opportunity. Just to name a few:

- Hannah Graham
- Morgan Harrington
- Chelsea King
- Sierah Joughin


The killing is done afterwards to eliminate the only witness, which is the victim herself.

Also Haruka Weiser.

 

[Madeleine74]

Yes, there are so many young girls and young women who have been attacked & killed by a stranger, while they were out doing their thing.

"When you hear hooves, think horses, not zebras."

 

[epiphany]

Note Junior's remarks about KV in the middle of this article: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/john-gotti-grandson-blames-youth-stupidity-drug-dealing-article-1.2740947

I see, but more interesting is Junior placing blame on the NYPD for the "decline" of his GrandPa's neighborhood!

If he weren't so pathetic, it would be laughable.

Who wouldn't show unity with the neighborhood regarding the horrific murder of one of their own as you're selling drugs from one of the homes in their safe haven?

Can't recall who it was, but that reminded me of the one the neighbors used to say threw block parties in the heat of the summer and handed out Xmas trees during the holidays. As if he was a "good generous kindly man."

 

[Madeleine74]

As they say, "honor among thieves." There are crimes some criminals wouldn't do. How often do we hear about jailhouse justice? Think about who is considered scum by other criminals, based on their crimes. Lowest of the low would be killers of babies, children, followed by young defenseless women.

 

[liz b.]

I see, but more interesting is Junior placing blame on the NYPD for the "decline" of his GrandPa's neighborhood!

If he weren't so pathetic, it would be laughable.

Who wouldn't show unity with the neighborhood regarding the horrific murder of one of their own as you're selling drugs from one of the homes in their safe haven?

Can't recall who it was, but that reminded me of the one the neighbors used to say threw block parties in the heat of the summer and handed out Xmas trees during the holidays. As if he was a "good generous kindly man."

It's all part of life in Italian American communities. jmo Hoods are hoods, and the present day organized crime groups are not anything like the old time ones. There is no longer any "code" of who might be killed. Family members are fair game. Tragic. jmo Luckily most Italian American communities have rock solid people living there too, and it all balances out. jmo

 

[ohhpossum]

The vast majority of women are murdered by someone they know. The cases that make the news are the random killings, which are no less terrible, but far more rare.

http://www.vpc.org/press/more-than-1600-women-murdered-by-men-in-one-year-new-study-finds/

 

[Inthedetails]

"Actor Donnie Wahlberg says slain Queens jogger Karina Vetrano was one of the kindest fans he's ever had the pleasure of meeting....'I've met thousands of amazing New Yorkers while filming Blue Bloods — none were as kind as Karina Vetrano,' the actor wrote"

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...slain-jogger-karina-vetrano-article-1.2741717

 

[Theforeigner]

Thanks for your reply! Was it only made private after her death, then, or a few days before? Because someone must have accessed her account (or just used her actual phone) to change that setting. I don't think Instagram would change it of its own volition. I agree it was probably someone who knew her but I'm not sure it was a sexual predator--the goal of the attack doesn't seem mostly sexual; I think they went after her wanting her to die, possibly with that classic stalker thought of "if I can't have you, no one can."

Her Instagram was made privat AFTER her death, a couple of days after. I guess it was her family who did that.
She was raped vaginal and anal, so there is no doubt it was a sexual predator.

 

[Curious Me]

MOO today remains the same as yesterday as to how I see it at this point in time.

I believe he was a stranger and a violent sexual predator who looks for an opportunity. It seems so spur of the moment to me. I don't see much planning because he didn't seem prepared for Karina to fight back and she had a chance to bite him and possibly scratch him-- he didn't knock her out right away, didn't use a weapon or ties to secure her. The act was quick and he fled. He didn't go through the trouble to try to hide the body...maybe because he wasn't worried as he had no personal connection to her.

 

[Curious Me]

Thanks for your reply! Was it only made private after her death, then, or a few days before? Because someone must have accessed her account (or just used her actual phone) to change that setting. I don't think Instagram would change it of its own volition. I agree it was probably someone who knew her but I'm not sure it was a sexual predator--the goal of the attack doesn't seem mostly sexual; I think they went after her wanting her to die, possibly with that classic stalker thought of "if I can't have you, no one can."

I appreciate your sharing your thoughts and what you think the killer is thinking. I see him different though. This killer had a sexual motivation. The brutality is common from a violent sexual predator taking what he wants at all costs. IMO, he shows the classic brutal rape killing mentality of "I saw her and had to have her". He didn't spend a minute more with the body when he was done and didn't take or hide her phone, but left it there, which again seems like no personal connection.

BBM

 

[chrissybk]

I live 3 miles from where this happened and my family lives about 1 mile from Karina's family. Along the Belt Parkway from the exit to my neighborhood to the exit to Howard Beach is 3 miles of biking and walking/running paths. Off the Belt is the weeds, where the brush is so thick and high in some places that I can imagine people in the area not seeing or hearing anything. Once you move off off the Belt Parkway it is a very secluded area. There are many unofficial paths leading from the Belt Parkway that would lead right to the area that her body was found. Homeless people are known to set up camp in the weeds as well and some panhandle at the exit when you are coming off the Belt into Howard Beach.

Between the exit to my neighborhood and the exit to Karina's neighborhood there is another exit on the belt called Erskine Street. Directly off that exit is a shopping mall with a large parking lot. It is possible to walk from that shopping mall to the Belt Parkway and cross over the Belt, taking one of those unofficial paths leading right to where Karina was found. The mall is about a mile and a half to 2 miles from where Karina was found.
Forgive me if I am all over the place but my thoughts are all trying to come out at once.

4 days before she died, Karina posted a photo of herself and a South African businessman and captioned it "You + Me+ Rose + Saint Tropez= Happiness"
2 days before she died she broke up with a boyfriend who told the police that the reason they broke up was because he thought what they had was more than casual and she considered it to be more casual. Although I have never been one to believe in huge coincidences, from the news reports, the police have already cleared him and he is not considered a suspect so I guess this is just a coincidence.

<mod snip>

Now, I say all that to say this. This feels more to me like something personal than a random attack. I'm not sure how common it is for rapes to be both vaginal and anal and so violently brutal. Even though the area is isolated, it was still light outside and I would think that a rapist/killer would want to get in and out of the area as fast as possible. I also was thinking that if this was a crime of opportunity that was supposed to be "just a rape", once he realized how hard she was going to fight back, wouldn't he have just given up and ran off instead of committing a murder? Hearing the details of the beating and rape makes me feel like this was someone that was angry with her for some reason.

Just my opinion though, I could be way off.

On another note, hi WS'ers, it's been a long time. I haven't posted since Caylee <3

 

[SophieRose]

Here's a rape on a bike path in WI that was very brutal and the victim didn't know her attacker. Luckily she survived. I've read of many others like this. The attacker sees the victim as prey. Just awful.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/lo...cle_76a4450f-aa04-53c9-9b8e-6f6e68df82b8.html

At the time, police said the assault was so vicious, they were calling it an attempted homicide.

 

[Curious Me]

Welcome Back chrissybk!

Thank You so much for describing the area more. The proximity of the mall within walking distance on an unofficial path to where Karina's body was found is extremely interesting. I think there's other people on this thread that are thinking the break-up created anger and had something to do with this brutal murder. I don't, but I do appreciate hearing speculations from everyone. MOO, the ex bf would have bruises if he did this and he'd have to be an expert liar to fool professional LE. I'm sure LE concentrated on him big time at first. I hope her parents and close friends will provide any little tidbits about all the people Karina may have mentioned to them that should be checked out.

Her parents, her family, and all her loved ones have my deepest sympathies. The condition of how she was found is a nightmare when just last week this beautiful vivacious young woman was full of life and love for her family and friends. I pray her killer is caught soon because he could be a serial violent sex offender, IMO. Please keep us updated, dear chrissybk.

Hope I can fall asleep..........................................................................................fftobed:

 

[Dollcat]

I live 3 miles from where this happened and my family lives about 1 mile from Karina's family. Along the Belt Parkway from the exit to my neighborhood to the exit to Howard Beach is 3 miles of biking and walking/running paths. Off the Belt is the weeds, where the brush is so thick and high in some places that I can imagine people in the area not seeing or hearing anything. Once you move off off the Belt Parkway it is a very secluded area. There are many unofficial paths leading from the Belt Parkway that would lead right to the area that her body was found. Homeless people are known to set up camp in the weeds as well and some panhandle at the exit when you are coming off the Belt into Howard Beach.

Between the exit to my neighborhood and the exit to Karina's neighborhood there is another exit on the belt called Erskine Street. Directly off that exit is a shopping mall with a large parking lot. It is possible to walk from that shopping mall to the Belt Parkway and cross over the Belt, taking one of those unofficial paths leading right to where Karina was found. The mall is about a mile and a half to 2 miles from where Karina was found.
Forgive me if I am all over the place but my thoughts are all trying to come out at once.

4 days before she died, Karina posted a photo of herself and a South African businessman and captioned it "You + Me+ Rose + Saint Tropez= Happiness"
2 days before she died she broke up with a boyfriend who told the police that the reason they broke up was because he thought what they had was more than casual and she considered it to be more casual. Although I have never been one to believe in huge coincidences, from the news reports, the police have already cleared him and he is not considered a suspect so I guess this is just a coincidence.

<mod snip>

Now, I say all that to say this. This feels more to me like something personal than a random attack. I'm not sure how common it is for rapes to be both vaginal and anal and so violently brutal. Even though the area is isolated, it was still light outside and I would think that a rapist/killer would want to get in and out of the area as fast as possible. I also was thinking that if this was a crime of opportunity that was supposed to be "just a rape", once he realized how hard she was going to fight back, wouldn't he have just given up and ran off instead of committing a murder? Hearing the details of the beating and rape makes me feel like this was someone that was angry with her for some reason.

Just my opinion though, I could be way off.

On another note, hi WS'ers, it's been a long time. I haven't posted since Caylee <3

What is a "fire lane"? I'm from the Southwest and not familiar with this term. TIA

 

[Inthedetails]

I live 3 miles from where this happened and my family lives about 1 mile from Karina's family. Along the Belt Parkway from the exit to my neighborhood to the exit to Howard Beach is 3 miles of biking and walking/running paths. Off the Belt is the weeds, where the brush is so thick and high in some places that I can imagine people in the area not seeing or hearing anything. Once you move off off the Belt Parkway it is a very secluded area. There are many unofficial paths leading from the Belt Parkway that would lead right to the area that her body was found. Homeless people are known to set up camp in the weeds as well and some panhandle at the exit when you are coming off the Belt into Howard Beach.

Between the exit to my neighborhood and the exit to Karina's neighborhood there is another exit on the belt called Erskine Street. Directly off that exit is a shopping mall with a large parking lot. It is possible to walk from that shopping mall to the Belt Parkway and cross over the Belt, taking one of those unofficial paths leading right to where Karina was found. The mall is about a mile and a half to 2 miles from where Karina was found.
Forgive me if I am all over the place but my thoughts are all trying to come out at once.

4 days before she died, Karina posted a photo of herself and a South African businessman and captioned it "You + Me+ Rose + Saint Tropez= Happiness"
2 days before she died she broke up with a boyfriend who told the police that the reason they broke up was because he thought what they had was more than casual and she considered it to be more casual. Although I have never been one to believe in huge coincidences, from the news reports, the police have already cleared him and he is not considered a suspect so I guess this is just a coincidence.

<mod snip>

Now, I say all that to say this. This feels more to me like something personal than a random attack. I'm not sure how common it is for rapes to be both vaginal and anal and so violently brutal. Even though the area is isolated, it was still light outside and I would think that a rapist/killer would want to get in and out of the area as fast as possible. I also was thinking that if this was a crime of opportunity that was supposed to be "just a rape", once he realized how hard she was going to fight back, wouldn't he have just given up and ran off instead of committing a murder? Hearing the details of the beating and rape makes me feel like this was someone that was angry with her for some reason.

Just my opinion though, I could be way off.

On another note, hi WS'ers, it's been a long time. I haven't posted since Caylee <3

I love locals on WS cases!

The info about the mall and unofficial trails is interesting to me. My hunch has been it was a duo or group of young guys who were in the park who committed this crime because of opportunity. Placing a duo/group in the Weeds has been a pondering point, but knowing there was a mall nearby does give more possibility of a duo/group in the Weeds at that time of day - perhaps they were going to/from the mall and either took the paths through the park as part of their route and/or used the Weeds to drink/drugs.

The 2x rape could be two different perps. Hearing that the anal was more vicious also fits with two perps. (Though, of course, ANY rape is vicious and violent, and I'm horrified by what she had to go through.)

If it was a duo/group of young people, I'm worried there won't be DNA matches in the database.

Thanks for your local insight. Keep us posted!

jmopinion....hoping to hear about progress on the case soon.

 

[OldSteve]

Thanks so much for local info chrissybk! Question - any idea how many joggers, cyclists, etc. would you figure use the trails used by Karina, especially in the late afternoon early evening?

 

[OldSteve]

Sadly, getting a DNA database match may prove difficult IMO since there is a huge backlog of entering rape kit DNA into the data base (at least from what I've read following other cases). While DNA from attacks like this are quickly entered, those from cases not in the news may not be... anyone have stats on this?

 

[OldSteve]

I love locals on WS cases!

The info about the mall and unofficial trails is interesting to me. My hunch has been it was a duo or group of young guys who were in the park who committed this crime because of opportunity. Placing a duo/group in the Weeds has been a pondering point, but knowing there was a mall nearby does give more possibility of a duo/group in the Weeds at that time of day - perhaps they were going to/from the mall and either took the paths through the park as part of their route and/or used the Weeds to drink/drugs.

The 2x rape could be two different perps. Hearing that the anal was more vicious also fits with two perps. (Though, of course, ANY rape is vicious and violent, and I'm horrified by what she had to go through.)

If it was a duo/group of young people, I'm worried there won't be DNA matches in the database.

Thanks for your local insight. Keep us posted!

jmopinion....hoping to hear about progress on the case soon.

Agree, well thought out!
ETA - surveillance from the mall might be helpful looking for any group leaving toward where she was attacked...