NY - Male student sues Columbia Univ for 'gender-based harassment and defamation'

[jjenny]

I have no opinion as to what happened when the two were alone, but a jury, if the case went to trial, would be called upon to make a decision based on the perceived truthfulness of the complainant.

I don't quite know what to make of the Daily Mall article and its photos. Graduation at Columbia is a ceremony that dates back to the 1700s! The university is composed of numerous colleges (three undergraduate schools, including Barnard, plus an engineering school, a business school, a medical school, a school of journalism and a large grad school of Arts & Sciences). All of which amounts to THOUSANDS of graduates each May.

Add four guests per grad and there is no space on campus big enough to hold the multitudes. The ceremony is held outside in the sizable university quad (one of the most beautiful spots in NYC, BTW). The class from each school marches in en masse, arranged in alphabetical order, and takes its seat; then the next school's grads come in, etc.

There is (or was when I was there) no parade of grads across the stage and no handing out of diplomas. Instead, the graduation was a mass event and diplomas were handed out in each school's administration office after the ceremony.

So I'm not sure what pictures we are seeing. Perhaps the young woman's school had a private ceremony to hand out the actual diplomas. (Mine had a sort of reception, very informal, and you went up to a desk to get your scroll.)

All of this goes to say I am suspicious of the DAILY MALL's account of the event. I think it's at least possible the mattress was dragged up on stage after the ceremony (notice the podium is empty) for a photo op.

No, according to NYT she brought it on the stage during graduation ceremony. Regular, not a private one.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I think the girl has some serious issues - Jodi type issues.

In the complaint, it describes how before the two of them ever got together sexually, that they were close friends and confidants. She had asked him to talk to her current sexual partner and ask him to wear a condom when he ******s other girls (her words) because she didn't want to get any STD's. She then asked him why couldn't he (the current lover) "just love me". This to me sounds as if she's looking for someone/anyone that can love "only" her.

So then when the accused doesn't fall head over heels in love with her, she decides to get even. It took her 8 months before she reported it to the school - and then the only reason she did was because she wanted him thrown out of school.... she didn't want to have to see him anymore. She no doubt sought out his ex-girlfriend to convince her to file rape charges also. She probably told her that he had said bad things about her to get her to go along with it.

It is obvious that she is loving all the attention that she is getting and I'm sure she is very good (Jodi good) at convincing people that she is a victim. I feel so bad for the guy that she has accused. He's never had a chance to actually defend himself to the public. He was told to keep everything confidential and yet she's been allowed to plaster her "story" all over the internet and ruin his name. This story reminds me a little of the Morgan Ingram Stalking case.... where Toni was able to outright accuse 3 kids without any proof whatsoever. I just wish this poor guy had more support.

:goodpost: I really get sick and tired of girls/guys who get even for being dumped, going into 'psycho land' even. Grrrr
She's not honest with herself or with others and obviously feels she is so 'special', no one is going to love and leave her! She is an enemy to the real victims of rape who deserve justice! JMO

 

[Nova]

No, according to NYT she brought it on the stage during graduation ceremony. Regular, not a private one.

Even NYT reporters can be sloppy. The following is from the official graduation webpage (emphasis added):

Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2015

Schedule:

8:30 a.m. General admission gates open
9:00 a.m. Degree Candidates line up
9:30 a.m. Degree Candidate Procession begins
10:15 a.m. Academic Procession begins
10:30 a.m. Commencement exercises begin
12:00 p.m. Ceremony concludes

Location: The ceremony will be held outdoors on the Morningside Campus, rain or shine. The Levien Gymnasium will serve as an indoor, weather-friendly, accessible viewing location for any guest with a general admission ticket.

1. The actual graduation was held on Wednesday (yesterday, after the article appeared), not Tuesday as reported by the Daily Mall.
2. The procession began at 10:15 am and the entire graduation was concluded by Noon. There is no way thousands of individuals paraded up on stage and had their names announced in an hour and 45 minutes. (Per tradition, there was also a speech by the President of University and by the guest speaker during that time.)
3. The "covered area" was reserved for guests in case of rain, not graduates. (I remember how Columbia prided itself on always holding its graduation outdoors, as it had since 17-something. Legend held that it had never rained during the actual ceremony.)

 

[Nova]

This sounds more like the ceremony in the photos. It is "Class Day", not "graduation". Note that it was held on Tuesday, the day before graduation. Now this is Columbia College. There are two other undergraduate colleges: Barnard College and The School of General Studies. I don't know which school ES attended. If it's been mentioned in an article, I haven't seen it.

This ceremony celebrates the accomplishments of graduating students from the Columbia College Class of 2015. Students’ names are read as they process across the stage and receive a class pin. Student life, academic, and alumni awards and prizes are conferred to students.

Date: Tuesday, May 19, 2015

Time: 9:30 a.m. (Graduates to report at 8:00 a.m.)

Location: South Lawn, Morningside Campus

Speaker: Eric Garcetti

Tickets: Not required

Caps and Gowns: Required

Diplomas: Will be mailed to graduates (using permanent address on file with SSOL)

Here is what Barnard did last Sunday:

PRESENTATION OF DEGREE CANDIDATES

This ceremony celebrates the accomplishments of graduating students from the Barnard College Class of 2015. Students' names are read as they process across the stage.

Date: Sunday, May 17, 2015

Time: 2:00 p.m.

Location: The Theater, Madison Square Garden

Speaker: Ambassador Samantha Power, U.S. Permanent Representative to the United Nations

Reception: 11:00 a.m. - 12:45 p.m. on the Barnard campus

Tickets: Required

Caps and Gowns: Required

Diplomas: Can be picked up following University Commencement on May 20, 1:00 p.m. - 2:00 p.m., from Barnard Hall Lobby; thereafter from the Registrar's Office

Again this is an indoor ceremony for the roughly 800 or so kids graduating from Barnard College. They would have actually been graduated yesterday with the rest of the university.

Here is the third undergraduate college, The School of General Studies (my alma mater):

CLASS DAY

This ceremony celebrates the accomplishments of graduating students of the School of General Studies Class of 2015. Students' names are read as they process across the stage.

Date: Monday, May 18, 2015

Time: 9:00 a.m. (Graduates must report at 7:30 a.m.)

Location: South Lawn

Speaker: Christopher Hood

Reception: Immediately following the ceremony at Avery Plaza

Tickets: Not required

Caps and Gowns: Required

Diplomas: Will be mailed to graduates

Please note that NONE of these ceremonies involves the receipt of an actual diploma. Diplomas are handled differently by each school, but are distributed only after the university-wide graduation on Wednesday.

Does any of this matter? Probably not, except that the parade of the mattress was held in front of a relatively small group (hundreds rather than thousands) and was NOT carried on stage as part of the official graduation. Most people in attendance would have seen ES carrying her mattress many times before.

And, as a journalist friend of mine once consoled me after a highly inaccurate article on my work, most reporters are really lazy.

(ETA in case anyone is wondering, the three undergraduate schools date from an era before the schools were co-ed. They have slightly different academic requirements, but all three share the same faculty and students from all three take classes together. I don't know whether ES and her alleged attacker were in the same college or not; they wouldn't have to be to run into each other every day on campus.)

 

[EllieBee]

She seems to relish it so much that it's almost as if, if she wasn't raped, she'd have to make up a rape.

Oh.... er.... um..... yeah, I think that's exactly what happened.

Wow.

Really?

Rape victims just LOVE it?

Are we serious here?

 

[KaaBoom]

http://nymag.com/thecut/2014/09/emma-sulkowicz-campus-sexual-assault-activism.html
September 21, 2014

In the ivy-covered courtyard outside Wien Hall, Paul kissed Sulkowicz, who says that she was sober except for a sip of gin-and-Sprite. He was buzzed and carrying a handle of vodka. While they were having consensual sex in her dorm room,

I have heard it said that one should not have sex with an intoxicated person, because they are not capable of consenting. An argument could be made that he was too "buzzed" to consent to sex with her. Her being an advocate against sexual assault, I would think she would have been considerate of that possibility.

 

[KaaBoom]

She put a light blue cover on it to match her graduation gown.

LOL, actually it looks like a blue hospital bed mattress. Much smaller and lighter weight then a regular mattress.

 

[jjenny]

LOL, actually it looks like a blue hospital bed mattress. Much smaller and lighter weight then a regular mattress.

She had a dark blue cover on it before, but changed it to light blue for the graduation.

 

[Nova]

BTW, Columbia was founded as "King's College" under a charter granted by the King of England in 1754. The name was changed after the American Revolution. It isn't as old as Harvard, but it was the first college in the colony of New York.

There's a photo of this year's graduation at the link below. One can easily see the infamous mattress would have been lost in the crowd.

http://www.columbia.edu/

 

[CuriousGuy]

Wow.

Really?

Rape victims just LOVE it?

Are we serious here?

It would do you good to read the entire thread before accusing a poster of insensitivity.

 

[Nova]

I have heard it said that one should not have sex with an intoxicated person, because they are not capable of consenting. An argument could be made that he was too "buzzed" to consent to sex with her. Her being an advocate against sexual assault, I would think she would have been considerate of that possibility.

Has that law ever been used against a female? I assume it must have been, but I only hear about it when the female is intoxicated. I've long wondered why a female's blood-alcohol level makes her not responsible, but the blood-alcohol level of her alleged assailant doesn't absolve him of culpability.

 

[cavvy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/20/n...ity-continues-into-graduation-event.html?_r=0

She was asked not to bring the mattress to graduation. She did anyway. No thought to the other graduates. The young man was *cleared* of all charges.

Whoever got a "Jodi vibe" from her, mentioned above - I did, too. IMO.

When asked what she was going to do with the mattress now that she had graduated, she said “If some sort of museum wants to buy it, then I’m open to that,” she said, “but I’m not going to just throw it away.” http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/20/n...ity-continues-into-graduation-event.html?_r=0 Reminds me of Jodi thinking her art should hang in an art gallery next to Van Gogh and Monet. As if any museum would want it. LOL

I just wonder what she's going to do next.... now that she won't have her stage (the campus) to carry out her sick agenda to publicly harass him. She's obviously been obsessed with ruining his life under the pretense of a class project. That obsession will probably not end just because they graduated. If she is "wired" like Jodi (and I do believe she is) she's going to feel lost when all of the attention she's been receiving goes away and all her fellow classmates (supporters) go their own ways. Will she continue to blame him for her feelings of emptiness. I seriously worry for him. She needs help.

IMO

 

[cavvy]

I have no opinion as to what happened when the two were alone, but a jury, if the case went to trial, would be called upon to make a decision based on the perceived truthfulness of the complainant.

I don't quite know what to make of the Daily Mall article and its photos. Graduation at Columbia is a ceremony that dates back to the 1700s! The university is composed of numerous colleges (three undergraduate schools, including Barnard, plus an engineering school, a business school, a medical school, a school of journalism and a large grad school of Arts & Sciences). All of which amounts to THOUSANDS of graduates each May.

Add four guests per grad and there is no space on campus big enough to hold the multitudes. The ceremony is held outside in the sizable university quad (one of the most beautiful spots in NYC, BTW). The class from each school marches in en masse, arranged in alphabetical order, and takes its seat; then the next school's grads come in, etc.

There is (or was when I was there) no parade of grads across the stage and no handing out of diplomas. Instead, the graduation was a mass event and diplomas were handed out in each school's administration office after the ceremony.

So I'm not sure what pictures we are seeing. Perhaps the young woman's school had a private ceremony to hand out the actual diplomas. (Mine had a sort of reception, very informal, and you went up to a desk to get your scroll.)

All of this goes to say I am suspicious of the DAILY MALL's account of the event. I think it's at least possible the mattress was dragged up on stage after the ceremony (notice the podium is empty) for a photo op.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/s...dent-accused-by-mattress-girl/article/2564790

His parents had these comments to say about the graduation ceremony.

 

[cavvy]

:goodpost: I really get sick and tired of girls/guys who get even for being dumped, going into 'psycho land' even. Grrrr
She's not honest with herself or with others and obviously feels she is so 'special', no one is going to love and leave her! She is an enemy to the real victims of rape who deserve justice! JMO

I wonder how it made her feel to see that some of his supporters put up posters all over the city calling her a "pretty little liar".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...sity-in-backlash-against-alleged-rape-victim/

 

[Nova]

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/s...dent-accused-by-mattress-girl/article/2564790

His parents had these comments to say about the graduation ceremony.

They are saying the parade of the mattress cast a pall over graduation for their son. They are using "graduation" in a broad sense to mean the entire week's rituals.

I've already proven in several different ways that the mattress parade took place at "Class Day" not graduation (though SE may have brought her mattress with her to graduation, there was no parade of new grads on stage).

 

[KaaBoom]

Has that law ever been used against a female? I assume it must have been, but I only hear about it when the female is intoxicated. I've long wondered why a female's blood-alcohol level makes her not responsible, but the blood-alcohol level of her alleged assailant doesn't absolve him of culpability.

I don't think it is a law anywhere, but I have heard it from rape prevention activists, mostly female, and I'm pretty sure they are not even thinking about it applying to females. Which is the problem IMHO. It seems to me that the responsibility should go equally both ways.

Just as someone who is drunk might not be capable of saying "no", someone who is drunk might not be capable of understanding "no" when their partner says it.

All of this is just a bad situation that people should not let themselves get into. Its very hard to prove one way or the other after the fact.

 

[cavvy]

They are saying the parade of the mattress cast a pall over graduation for their son. They are using "graduation" in a broad sense to mean the entire week's rituals.

I've already proven in several different ways that the mattress parade took place at "Class Day" not graduation (though SE may have brought her mattress with her to graduation, there was no parade of new grads on stage).

Yes, it was during Class Day - but it's not like there were just a small class there to witness this ...... there were probably thousands of people there watching this - including parents/families.

I found a video taken during the ceremony - http://www.columbia.edu/node/19389.html At the 20 minute mark you can get an idea just how many people that were there. At the 148.10 min. mark you can watch Emma and her friends carry the mattress on stage to a huge round of applause. Can you imagine how it would feel if you were truly innocent of what that mattress stands for? Or being the family members watching as your son's accuser is smiling away to rounds of applause at your childs expense? Unreal that this was ever allowed. She should have been kicked out of school months ago for violating the confidentiality order. The same order that prevented him from speaking out in his own defense.

 

[Nova]

^^^More like hundreds than thousands. Columbia College only has 3,000 students total and it's likely fewer than 500 were graduated this Spring. But still difficult for the man she accused, I agree.

Thanks for watching that webcast and noting the times for us.

 

[EllieBee]

http://jezebel.com/i-am-not-a-pretty-little-liar-1705996719

Authored by one of the other three women who was allegedly assaulted by Paul.

If you’re reading this and doubting Emma—if you’re reading this and doubting me—please ask yourself why I’m taking the time to write this. Ask yourself why I filed a complaint against someone I had considered a friendly acquaintance (before my assault). Ask yourself why four unrelated people have taken the time and energy to come forward and file complaints against him. Read Jon Krakauer’s Missoula. Get outside what happened on Columbia’s campus. Try to realize that our stories are everywhere, on every campus, and we’re not all activists like Emma or unreliable sources like Jackie. Some of us are quiet about our stories even if we’re completely sure.

 

[tangelo]

http://jezebel.com/i-am-not-a-pretty-little-liar-1705996719

Authored by one of the other three women who was allegedly assaulted by Paul.

that's the woman he hugged (allegedly)