NY - Melina Frattolin, 9, Abducted, seen 9:40pm in a white van traveling south on I-87 near exit 22, Lake George, 19 Jul 2025 *arrest*

[mickey2942]

Yes, I think so too. Drowning a person would count as torture in my book. And I supposed they could find other things about him that we don’t know yet.

It looks like life in prison can be a sentence for 2nd degree as well.
As NYS doesn’t have the death penalty- he could get life with our parole for either 1st or 2nd- and that is as much as he could get.

Maybe there are nuances I’m missing?

IMO

I wonder what determines the "definition" of torture?

 

[Dreamcherry]

All JMO - For a moment I contemplated if his original intention was a murder suicide outcome, given his financial debt, and possible issues with his ex-wife, and then something made him change his mind about going through with the suicide part, like he got scared and panicked and quickly tried to cover it up as an abduction?
But, that wouldn’t make sense given the cause of death and the location.

Murder/suicide was my very first thought, and that he backed out of it at the last second. I think the COD could still work. Seems like a horrible way to go about it, but people do drown themselves to end their lives sometimes. Debt is the trigger behind a lot of family annihilations, and some family annihilators don't go through with their own death, even though they had planned to die as well. Some try to make it look like an accident. Could be what was going on here.

 

[Inthedetails]

I wonder what determines the "definition" of torture?

In NY State, the legal definition of torture, in regards to murder in the first-degree:

"torture" means the intentional and depraved infliction of
extreme physical pain; "depraved" means the defendant relished the
infliction of extreme physical pain upon the victim evidencing
debasement or perversion or that the defendant evidenced a sense of
pleasure in the infliction of extreme physical pain

NYS Open Legislation | NYSenate.gov

www.nysenate.gov

(In a different section, for aggravated murder, torture is defined as the intentional and depraved infliction of extreme physical pain that is separate and apart from the pain which otherwise would have been associated with such cause of death)

 

[bugnamer]

Again, as a local I'm all wrapped up in the locations. I went and listened to the scanner feed records from the night she was reported missing. I had assumed that her father had called 911 from the rest area at exit 22. I don't know why I assumed that, but probably because that's what I would have done. This sounds like he drove two more exits south - the wrong way again (it's about 5.5 miles to exit 20) to find a station to report her missing at instead of calling 911. This is what I heard from the scanner:
(my transcription, all errors are my own should there be any!):

“Just to be clear, that van was headed southbound on 87, correct?”
“Affirmed, from what we believe is gonna be the rest stop there.”
“It’s definitely 22, because he passed two exits to get to our station.”

Broadcastify.com archives:
Washington, Saratoga and Warren Counties Sheriff
7/19/25
09:49 pm <—> 10:19pm EDT
Starting about 22:36

 

[abyquinn]

NYS Open Legislation | NYSenate.gov

www.nysenate.gov

(In a different section, for aggravated murder, torture is defined as the intentional and depraved infliction of extreme physical pain that is separate and apart from the pain which otherwise would have been associated with such cause of death).

I’m in complete agreement of AngTxGal that drowning someone is torture. Especially when that someone is supposed to be a loved one. Someone who looks up to you, trusts you completely and expects you to protect them with your own life! Add that to the physical pain of being forced down, held under water, I would have no problem calling this scenario Murder 1 with the added element of torture.

Just like choking someone, this is not an instant death, it takes a few minutes in which the assailant could stop. Each of those moments add premeditation to the assault and in the case of someone so young Children Abuse that results in death should also be added to the list. If this is what happened to Melina, Murder 1, is appropriate. Life w/o parole is the best we can do.

Honestly I don’t care if LF had money problems, if he didn’t enjoy being a parent, if Melina’s mother was a nightmare to deal with (not suggesting this is the case), or if Melina said something that hurt his feelings. He’s a grown man, he had options, his beautiful little girl didn’t deserve to be drowned and left under a log in a pond or any other depraved act that resulted in her losing her life. MOO

 

[Inthedetails]

I’m in complete agreement of AngTxGal that drowning someone is torture. Especially when that someone is supposed to be a loved one. Someone who looks up to you, trusts you completely and expects you to protect them with your own life! Add that to the physical pain of being forced down, held under water, I would have no problem calling this scenario Murder 1 with the added element of torture.

Just like choking someone, this is not an instant death, it takes a few minutes in which the assailant could stop. Each of those moments add premeditation to the assault and in the case of someone so young Children Abuse that results in death should also be added to the list. If this is what happened to Melina, Murder 1, is appropriate. Life w/o parole is the best we can do.

Honestly I don’t care if LF had money problems, if he didn’t enjoy being a parent, if Melina’s mother was a nightmare to deal with (not suggesting this is the case), or if Melina said something that hurt his feelings. He’s a grown man, he had options, his beautiful little girl didn’t deserve to be drowned and left under a log in a pond or any other depraved act that resulted in her losing her life. MOO

Legally, "torture" in NY State in regards to murder is pain inflicted beyond the pain of the actual murder.

Of course, we would consider any murder to be torturous, but legally, "torture" during murder has a specific meaning.

The link to the legal definition for NY is a few posts above.

jmopinion

 

[abyquinn]

Legally, "torture" in NY State in regards to murder is pain inflicted beyond the pain of the actual murder.

Of course, we would consider any murder to be torturous, but legally, "torture" during murder has a specific meaning.

The link to the legal definition for NY is a few….

IIRC in the Amber Alert information, Melina, stood 5’ tall & weighed 100lbs. LF doesn’t appear to be a very big guy. If Melina was conscious while he was drowning her she would’ve been fighting him for her life. Would that be considered pain over & above the actual pain of drowning? That was where I was coming from. If I’m being too liberal with my take on what is included in torture, I hear you and will refrain from doing so going forward. I do understand & appreciate your information.

 

[Inthedetails]

IIRC in the Amber Alert information, Melina, stood 5’ tall & weighed 100lbs. LF doesn’t appear to be a very big guy. If Melina was conscious while he was drowning her she would’ve been fighting him for her life. Would that be considered pain over & above the actual pain of drowning? That was where I was coming from. If I’m being too liberal with my take on what is included in torture, I hear you and will refrain from doing so going forward. I do understand & appreciate your information.

I think that is what the Grand Jury will consider. But I'm learning as we go. imo

One thing I've learned on WS is to think about is how the jury will eventually consider the charges when they compare the charges to the evidence.

If the defendant is overcharged, the jury could find them not guilty of those charges. Best to go with charges that the evidence fully and legally supports, not charges that seem appropriate to the public just because the crime is heinous.

But we really don't have the facts yet. All we know is she murdered by drowning.

jmopinion

 

[uteliaisuus]

I think I'm confused. The current timeline is:
- Melina calls mom
- Dad and Melina drive towards Canada
- Dad exits the hiway and hurts Melina; hides here in a swamp under a log
- Dad drives *away* from Canada for awhile, then finds a police station, walks in and reports his daughter missing

So many questions..
- Did the Melina have cell phone she called her mom with? Did she call from the car? Or did the dad give her his phone? (I ask because they would've needed an esim to call Canada from the US but this might've made calling 911 hard? not sure if esims report location like US carrier phones)

- How did they find her in a swamp under a log so quickly?

 

[Spectrix]

They're not giving away many details about the investigation but I am betting that cell phone records showed Luciano's phone had been in a completely different area than what he claimed during the time that his daughter was supposedly "abducted".
Considering they found the body so quickly I wonder if GPS location history either from his phone or from the car lead them there? Cell phone tower pings are way too vague to pinpoint a specific area like that.

 

[EspressoBean]

If I recall correctly, there was also witness account of seeing a man matching his description acting strangely in the area where she was found.

 

[Woolly]

If I recall correctly, there was also witness account of seeing a man matching his description acting strangely in the area where she was found.

There was, but I believe she only realized the significance of what she had seen and came forward after Melina was found.

 

[tlcya]

Ticonderoga resident Rebecca Kulickowski had tipped police off after saying she spotted a man she thinks was Luciano sprinting through a hilly section of woodland on Saturday night.

She told News10: 'It only caught my eye because as I was driving past the car, I seen a skinny tall guy. And he was running up a hill that he was parked next to and there was wooded area on the bottom of it.

'I just didn’t feel right, there was something about him, I don’t know, our eyes locked when I drove by, he looked at me.'

After waking up the next day to an Amber Alert over the disappearance of Melina, she immediately called the cops to explain what she had saw.
Behavior of Melina Frattolin's dad 'after he murdered 9 year-old'

https://www.news10.com/news/essex-c...-luciano-frattolin-before-he-killed-daughter/

I wonder how she would know if she saw him before Madelina's killing or if that is just the news org taking license? She saw him, not Melina, so how would she know if it were before or just after the murder? If indeed it was him she saw.

 

[borndem]

He didn't expect to be caught. No idea why he thought NY police wouldn't catch his wonky story.

jmo

Perhaps he is not as smart as he thinks he is. NY police are pretty darned smart & have lots of experience.
Grrrrrr.

 

[Inthedetails]

Ticonderoga resident Rebecca Kulickowski had tipped police off after saying she spotted a man she thinks was Luciano sprinting through a hilly section of woodland on Saturday night.

She told News10: 'It only caught my eye because as I was driving past the car, I seen a skinny tall guy. And he was running up a hill that he was parked next to and there was wooded area on the bottom of it.

'I just didn’t feel right, there was something about him, I don’t know, our eyes locked when I drove by, he looked at me.'

After waking up the next day to an Amber Alert over the disappearance of Melina, she immediately called the cops to explain what she had saw.
Behavior of Melina Frattolin's dad 'after he murdered 9 year-old'

https://www.news10.com/news/essex-c...-luciano-frattolin-before-he-killed-daughter/

I wonder how she would know if she saw him before Madelina's killing or if that is just the news org taking license? She saw him, not Melina, so how would she know if it were before or just after the murder? If indeed it was him she saw.

She noticed the man.
The next morning she got the Amber Alert, which made her remember the man so she called a tip.

I don't think she was making a claim she saw him before or after the murder.

jmo

 

[tlcya]

She noticed the man.
The next morning she got the Amber Alert, which made her remember the man so she called a tip.

I don't think she was making a claim she saw him before or after the murder.

jmo

thank you, the headline on the second article (Woman believes she may have seen Luciano Frattolin before he allegedly killed daughter) is deceiving because her quotes in the article don't make any mention of before or after.

 

[katydid23]

thank you, the headline on the second article (Woman believes she may have seen Luciano Frattolin before he allegedly killed daughter) is deceiving because her quotes in the article don't make any mention of before or after.

And if he was alone, wouldn't it seem like it was after the murder?

 

[tlcya]

have LE released TOD? Maybe the journalists are extrapolating time witness claims to have seen him against estimated TOD?

 

[Seattle1]

have LE released TOD? Maybe the journalists are extrapolating time witness claims to have seen him against estimated TOD?

There's no huge variance here. NYSP was fairly confident about the TOD even before the autopsy. In the Felony Complaint dated 7/20, they estimated Melina was killed between the time 7:40 pm and 9:12 pm.

Later, MSM cites NYSP with the following:

At 5.30 p.m. Saturday, Melina was seen on surveillance footage in Saratoga Springs, New York, before speaking to her mother on the phone an hour later. She said they were headed back to Canada.

The NYSP alleged that sometime between 6:30 p.m. and the 911 call later that night, Frattolin killed his daughter and abandoned her body. [911 call reported at 9:58 pm].

7/19/25 -- at about 9:58 PM, Warren County 911 received a call from a man reporting his 9-year-old daughter missing, with a possible abduction, in the area of Exit 22 of I-87 in Lake George, New York. The child was identified as Melina Frattolin, age 9, and the caller as her father, Luciano Frattolin, age 45, both residents of Canada.

Melina Frattolin autopsy revealed by New York Police

Melina's father, Luciano Frattolin, was arrested Monday and faces charges of second-degree murder and concealment of a corpse.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Seattle1]

Ticonderoga resident Rebecca Kulickowski had tipped police off after saying she spotted a man she thinks was Luciano sprinting through a hilly section of woodland on Saturday night.

She told News10: 'It only caught my eye because as I was driving past the car, I seen a skinny tall guy. And he was running up a hill that he was parked next to and there was wooded area on the bottom of it.

'I just didn’t feel right, there was something about him, I don’t know, our eyes locked when I drove by, he looked at me.'

After waking up the next day to an Amber Alert over the disappearance of Melina, she immediately called the cops to explain what she had saw.
Behavior of Melina Frattolin's dad 'after he murdered 9 year-old'

https://www.news10.com/news/essex-c...-luciano-frattolin-before-he-killed-daughter/

I wonder how she would know if she saw him before Madelina's killing or if that is just the news org taking license? She saw him, not Melina, so how would she know if it were before or just after the murder? If indeed it was him she saw.

If a witness saw LF on Saturday anytime AFTER 9:12 PM, this would be after he allegedly murdered Melina.