NY NY - Montauk, WhtFem OldAge, UP134473, in a wooded area at Montauk State Park, brown eyes, mole next to cheek, clothes, plaid, Mar'78

[Romulus]

Unidentified Person/NamUs #UP134473
Female, White/Caucasian
Date Body Found: March 22, 1978
Location Found: Montauk, New York

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

Estimated Age Range--
Estimated Age Group
Adult
Estimated Age Range (Years)
--
Estimated Year of Death
--
Estimated PMI
--
Height: 5' 0"(60 inches) , Measured
Weight: 204 lbs, Measured

Circumstances of Recovery: Elderly female found in a wooded area at East Overlook Park, Montauk State Park, in Montauk, NY.

---

Details of Recovery​

Inventory of Remains--
Condition of Remains: Recognizable face

Physical Description
Hair Color
Gray or Partially Gray
Left Eye Color: Brown
Right Eye Color: Brown
Eye Description--

---

Distinctive Physical Features​

Item
Description
Scar/mark: Mole on right side of mouth next to cheek

Clothing and Accessories​

Item
Description
Clothing
Plaid orange-black and gray coat which had been unbuttoned.
On the Body

Clothing
Paisley-patterend purple dress
On the Body

Clothing
white socks, pair
On the Body

Footwear
orange slippers with a black, leather-like sole
On the Body

 

[Tuck]

General Information

Date of Discovery - 03/22/1978

Location of Discovery - Montauk Point State Park, Suffolk County, New York

Estimated Date of Death - 3-4 hours

State of Remains - Recognizable face

Cause of Death - Homicide by gunshot

Physical Description

Estimated Age - 55 - 70

Race - White / Caucasian (Newspaper coverage indicates possible Slavic or Mediterranean heritage)

Gender - Female

Height - 5'0, Measured (Newspaper coverage indicates 5'1)

Weight - 204

Hair Color - Gray or Partially Gray

Eye Color - Brown

Distinguishing Marks / Features - A gangrenous second smallest toe on her left foot, a heart condition, and circulatory problems. A prominent mole on the right side of her mouth next to her cheek. Her teeth were stained brown and worn.

Clothing and Personal Items

Clothing - A three-quarter length plaid orange-black and gray coat which had been unbuttoned, a paisley-patterned purple dress, a paisley shawl, a pair of white sweat socks, and orange slippers with a black, leather-like sole.

Jewelry - Unknown.

Additional Personal Items - Unknown.

Circumstances of Discovery

An employee from the U.S. Air Force radar station at Montauk Point on his midday lunch break found the body of the elderly woman lying on the footpath near a scenic spot at the Overlook East parking lot. She had most likely died three to four hours before she was found, and had been shot multiple times in the abdomen and torso with a small caliber weapon. Authorities, who gave the woman the moniker 'Montauk Mary' indicated that there was no evidence of a struggle at the scene.

An autopsy led to a number of findings, including that the woman had a heart condition, circulatory problems, and a gangrenous toe that would have rendered walking difficult. She had likely been a non-smoker and a non-drinker, and had delivered between one and three children over the course of her life. It was also able to be determined that her final meal had been some form of potato substance.

Efforts to identify the woman were initially hampered by the fact that none of her clothing bore laundry marks or labels. However, the owner of a local restaurant contacted the police, and stated that he (along with several waitresses) recognised the woman as a regular patron. They stated that she had been known to frequent the restaurant between two and three times a week, but that she had not been seen since early March of 1978. They also noted that she always ordered the cheapest item on the menu, and characterised her as 'a reclusive woman who was very polite, tipped meagrely and had a disheveled appearance'. Although they did not not know her name or address, they indicated that she drove an early 1960's yellow convertible car.

Police followed up this lead, checking the motor vehicle registrations of convertibles which matched that description. They also theorised that the woman likely lived between Southampton and Montauk on Long Island. However, despite this being a relatively strong lead, it did not lead to any breakthroughs on the case.

They also looked into a number of theories, including that she may have been murdered by family members due to her age or physical condition, or that she was a recluse whose disappearance may have gone unnoticed by neighbours. Police scoured coast-to-coast missing persons records, and also undertook fingerprint comparisons between the deceased and known profiles that were kept on record. They also checked with social services agencies, and issued flyers throughout Long Island in senior citizens clubs, retirement homes, churches of all denominations, physicians offices and pharmacies. However, despite these extensive efforts, the woman remains unidentified.

Sources

Newsday (Suffolk Edition) - March 23, 1978

Newsday (Suffolk Edition) - April 30, 1978

Newsday (Suffolk Edition) - May 3, 1978

Daily News - July 24, 1978

 

[madamx]

There is so much information on this lady. Some neighbor must of noticed the yellow convertible in the driveway or on the block. A neighbor that wore orange and black coat and drove a yellow convertible would be hard to miss.

Thank you Tuck for posting all this info!!

 

[DD Byrd]

I'm assuming she was already considered on the older side of the age-range given, as I don't know on what planet age 50 would be considered "old age" or "elderly," even in the late 70s.

Anyway, at 5'0 and 200lbs, I'm wondering if the gangrenous toe was from diabetes, not that that would be helpful unless she was seen for it and LE checked local clinics/hospitals (beyond fliers). Barring the extremely wealthy with their own helipads etc., one doesn't just pop all the way out to Montauk several times a week unless you're somewhat local, even then. I'd ask how long does "regular patron" cover time-wise. March is early for a returning snowbird. I'd say she likely didn't have another residence if she was remembered as meager tipper, but I've seen millionaires several times over who are wildly frugal. The "possible Slavic or Mediterranean" is curious, I wouldn't necessarily put those 2 together (if I were generalizing).

It's certainly curious no one noticed her car, as @madamx said. But on the other hand, it's always been an 'exclusive' haven-ish area, so it's quite possible LE was investigating, but didn't want to spook the community and wasn't exactly canvassing the neighbors about a gunshot victim and describing her car. Certainly lots of places to sink one there, but maybe she was killed for it. It seems a family member of an already reclusive woman could do better than to leave her somewhere she'd be found within hours.

 

[madamx]

Ok I have been thinking about this woman all day I have so many questions

I'm assuming she was already considered on the older side of the age-range given, as I don't know on what planet age 50 would be considered "old age" or "elderly," even in the late 70s.

Anyway, at 5'0 and 200lbs, I'm wondering if the gangrenous toe was from diabetes, not that that would be helpful unless she was seen for it and LE checked local clinics/hospitals (beyond fliers). Barring the extremely wealthy with their own helipads etc., one doesn't just pop all the way out to Montauk several times a week unless you're somewhat local, even then. I'd ask how long does "regular patron" cover time-wise. March is early for a returning snowbird. I'd say she likely didn't have another residence if she was remembered as meager tipper, but I've seen millionaires several times over who are wildly frugal. The "possible Slavic or Mediterranean" is curious, I wouldn't necessarily put those 2 together (if I were generalizing).

It's certainly curious no one noticed her car, as @madamx said. But on the other hand, it's always been an 'exclusive' haven-ish area, so it's quite possible LE was investigating, but didn't want to spook the community and wasn't exactly canvassing the neighbors about a gunshot victim and describing her car. Certainly lots of places to sink one there, but maybe she was killed for it. It seems a family member of an already reclusive woman could do better than to leave her somewhere she'd be found within hours.

Yes I wonder if they kept the investigation on the down low like you said because of the area and the wealth of the people.

I do wonder if they went to gas stations or mechanics around. Because if she did have an early 60s convertible car she must if gone to a gas station or a mechanic at some point. There were less people at the time and more mom and pop places where everyone knew her. I am having a hard time with this lady and how Nobody stepped up other than the restaurant people

I have an article a friend of mine sent me (yes she is as mystified with this lady as I am!) talking about the restsurant and the owner. The restaurant seemed to have been in Main Street in Sag Harbor. So I wonder if the lady did not live far from there.
The name of the restaurant was Paradise , I read it in one of the articles that Tusk posted above.

George Proferes, 75 | The East Hampton Star

George Thomas Proferes, a longtime owner of the Paradise restaurant in Sag Harbor Village, which was in his family for close to 80 years, died at Huntington Hospital on Friday. He was 75 and had pneumonia, after having had lung problems for 30 years, his wife, Carroll Proferes, said.

www.easthamptonstar.com

 

[madamx]

I found this blog spot if people who grew up in sag harbor and their memories. Seemed like people knew each other. Anyway Iam posting it because it mentions the Paradise restaurant and has old photos of it. Looks almost like a diner. Seems like it was well known and people went to it a lot.

Hamptons History, A Sag Harbor Local Rants

Blog covers the true story of a young man growing up in the small drinking town, I mean fishing town of Sag Harbor, N.Y. in the 1960's and deplicts the era through essays about the area's history. ****Note: Some of my local rants may not be suitable for minors, or meek adults****

hamptonshistory.blogspot.com

 

[madamx]

One of the articles that Tusk posted links to earlier in this thread says the woman was in her 60’s

 

[madamx]

It mentions her face was recognizable yet there is no photo and her clothing seemed so colorful and yet no photos of the items if clothing either.

Says no tags I wonder if she sewed her own clothing. She seemed eccentric. I wonder if they reached out to post offices the mailman always used to know everybody on the route. It really puzzles me how Nobody would know the lady in the yellow convertible. I wonder what happened to her car. I really believe this case could of been solved with more searching .

She must of left behind a home or apartment and belongings and that convertible . She must if had money at some point if she owned a convertible .
Oh I can’t get this lady out of my mind!!

 

[cenazoic]

Good questions, @madamx.

I also find the combination of clothes odd. Like, a dress with sweat socks and slippers? Although I suppose that toe could’ve contributed to the unusual footwear.

March 22, 1978 was a Wednesday. It was about 50F at 10am.

 

[JSolt1210]

The lack of tags or labels on her clothing immediately make me think someone was trying to prevent identification. But this was 1978. Did forensics in this time period trace clothing labels, RN or SKU numbers, etc. the way they do now? Would a criminal know to do this back then in order to throw off investigators?

Also, she delivered between 1-3 children and yet we don't have anyone reporting a mother matching that description as missing? I guess, though, if she had Slavic/Mediterranean origins, maybe her children are there and never found out.

I still can't believe nothing came of that very promising lead!

 

[DD Byrd]

No struggle, but multiple gunshots to the abdomen and torso. At her size and with the toe she wouldn't get far if she were even trying to get away, and if so might be shot from behind. I'm doubtful she'd be out walking there in slippers, or at all, of her own volition. So, was she carjacked and taken there, or might she have regularly gone to just sit near a view or feed the birds near the car but not on the footpath? In beach communities you do see folks who sit in their cars for the view or peacefulness without the cold. Unless she did this often, it's hard to say whether a car-jacking would happen at 'random." Maybe she had a caretaker, or someone else known to her that took her but this time led her to the woods.
The shooter knew before firing she wouldn't be easy to move and hide, so it follows he (or she) wasn't concerned about being linked to the victim or being in the area when she was found. One certainly doesn't accidently shoot someone at close range multiple times. But I'd like to know if "multiple" is more than two. Because he also shot her while presumably standing face to face. She's seen his, so this will end badly for her, yet if 2+ shots, why? For most suffering, really bad aim? Worst case is the shooter laid her out with one shot then approached her face up on the ground and continued firing, and LE would know that. Hard to say if it's personal, yet it doesn't sound like a professional hit, where one shot would be enough, let alone draw less attention. The goal is to keep it brief, even in the middle of nowhere.

 

[madamx]

This bothers me so much. Someone has to have known this lady. She had a cat she went to a small town local diner a few times a week!!!

 

[kforbes862]

I would think someone in the area around the time would have had an idea at least about whether she was from close by, or a name. I could be wrong, but I get the feeling she was probably killed by family or someone who knew her to get theire hands on her benefits/income/property/inheritance. There was a recently solved unidentified case where evidence points to it being a family member who had killed an elderly woman and concealed her death in order to take her pension payments.

 

[madamx]

This bothers me so much. Someone has to have known this lady. She had a cat she went to a small town local diner a few times a week!!!

OMg i just realized my typo not cat OMg ha!….a Car a Car !….a yellow convertible car…How could someone Not remember the old lady neighbor in the Yellow Convertible car!

 

[madamx]

I would think someone in the area around the time would have had an idea at least about whether she was from close by, or a name. I could be wrong, but I get the feeling she was probably killed by family or someone who knew her to get theire hands on her benefits/income/property/inheritance. There was a recently solved unidentified case where evidence points to it being a family member who had killed an elderly woman and concealed her death in order to take her pension payments.

I agree.. I believe it wa om roñé she knew also.

 

[sds71]

@MaryMurphyMedia
Body of ‘Montauk Mary’ was found in East Overlook Park in Montauk on 3/22/1978. She’d been shot to death. About 60. Her face was recreated by SCPD forensic artist Danielle Gruttadaurio. I should point out Heckscher Park Jane Doe was discovered the same year.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1967675200360812879

 

[snarast]

Maybe she was never reported as diseased because someone wanted to collect social security checks.

 

[Ruminations]

General Information

Date of Discovery - 03/22/1978

Location of Discovery - Montauk Point State Park, Suffolk County, New York

Estimated Date of Death - 3-4 hours

State of Remains - Recognizable face

Cause of Death - Homicide by gunshot

Physical Description

Estimated Age - 55 - 70

Race - White / Caucasian (Newspaper coverage indicates possible Slavic or Mediterranean heritage)

Gender - Female

Height - 5'0, Measured (Newspaper coverage indicates 5'1)

Weight - 204

Hair Color - Gray or Partially Gray

Eye Color - Brown

Distinguishing Marks / Features - A gangrenous second smallest toe on her left foot, a heart condition, and circulatory problems. A prominent mole on the right side of her mouth next to her cheek. Her teeth were stained brown and worn.

Clothing and Personal Items

Clothing - A three-quarter length plaid orange-black and gray coat which had been unbuttoned, a paisley-patterned purple dress, a paisley shawl, a pair of white sweat socks, and orange slippers with a black, leather-like sole.

Jewelry - Unknown.

Additional Personal Items - Unknown.

Circumstances of Discovery

An employee from the U.S. Air Force radar station at Montauk Point on his midday lunch break found the body of the elderly woman lying on the footpath near a scenic spot at the Overlook East parking lot. She had most likely died three to four hours before she was found, and had been shot multiple times in the abdomen and torso with a small caliber weapon. Authorities, who gave the woman the moniker 'Montauk Mary' indicated that there was no evidence of a struggle at the scene.

An autopsy led to a number of findings, including that the woman had a heart condition, circulatory problems, and a gangrenous toe that would have rendered walking difficult. She had likely been a non-smoker and a non-drinker, and had delivered between one and three children over the course of her life. It was also able to be determined that her final meal had been some form of potato substance.

Efforts to identify the woman were initially hampered by the fact that none of her clothing bore laundry marks or labels. However, the owner of a local restaurant contacted the police, and stated that he (along with several waitresses) recognised the woman as a regular patron. They stated that she had been known to frequent the restaurant between two and three times a week, but that she had not been seen since early March of 1978. They also noted that she always ordered the cheapest item on the menu, and characterised her as 'a reclusive woman who was very polite, tipped meagrely and had a disheveled appearance'. Although they did not not know her name or address, they indicated that she drove an early 1960's yellow convertible car.

Police followed up this lead, checking the motor vehicle registrations of convertibles which matched that description. They also theorised that the woman likely lived between Southampton and Montauk on Long Island. However, despite this being a relatively strong lead, it did not lead to any breakthroughs on the case.

They also looked into a number of theories, including that she may have been murdered by family members due to her age or physical condition, or that she was a recluse whose disappearance may have gone unnoticed by neighbours. Police scoured coast-to-coast missing persons records, and also undertook fingerprint comparisons between the deceased and known profiles that were kept on record. They also checked with social services agencies, and issued flyers throughout Long Island in senior citizens clubs, retirement homes, churches of all denominations, physicians offices and pharmacies. However, despite these extensive efforts, the woman remains unidentified.

Sources

Newsday (Suffolk Edition) - March 23, 1978

Newsday (Suffolk Edition) - April 30, 1978

Newsday (Suffolk Edition) - May 3, 1978

Daily News - July 24, 1978

Okay. The first link from March 23 said the police found her there shot with a small caliper weapon but did not know if she had been shot there.

It seems to me, if she were dumped, there would be evidence of dragging or a blood trail from the parking lot, etc. and, there would be less blood than expected on the scene. And, if she were shot there, there would be blood consistent with being shot on site.

Furthermore, noting the absence of evidence of a struggle suggests to me that one looked for such evidence. In other words, it seemed to investigators that she was shot there but ambushed or executed, there was not a fight. One does not expect a struggle with a dead person brought to the scene.

Where is the car she drove? Did she pull the money she paid for her fish sandwich from a purse or wallet- where is that? Where is her car key?

Maybe someone drove the car into a wooded area. Maybe it was successfully sunk somewhere at low tide? Maybe someone close to her killed her, then sold the car for junk? But even without the car, it can't have been THAT onerous to just go through the entire list of older convertibles in Suffolk county until you found hers?

There were a little over a million people living in all of Suffolk in 1978. That's a lot, but.... seems like somehow someone should have found someone.

If she lived somewhere- someone should be able to report she suddenly moved out. If she lived in her car, someone should have noticed she stopped washing up at a certain gas station, or reading the papers at a certain library, or going though a certain regular trash bin, or picking up food at a certain charity, or from a particular individual who regularly threw out/shared their lunch. She had to buy gas, and occasionally top off oil, somewhere.

Where is her car?

It is really a strange case to be unsolved.

Stranger still that Tierney has just possibly hinted that it is related to Rex Heuermann, who was a child when she was shot to death. It is not a viable theory that a child found a victim no one would report missing, shot her, then disappeared her car.

The news stories do not mention explicitly state the car was never recovered. Nor is the description of the car in name us. So, maybe the car was found? If that's the case, it seems impossible that they don't know who she is.

MOO

 

[Warwick1991]

Okay. The first link from March 23 said the police found her there shot with a small caliper weapon but did not know if she had been shot there.

It seems to me, if she were dumped, there would be evidence of dragging or a blood trail from the parking lot, etc. and, there would be less blood than expected on the scene. And, if she were shot there, there would be blood consistent with being shot on site.

Furthermore, noting the absence of evidence of a struggle suggests to me that one looked for such evidence. In other words, it seemed to investigators that she was shot there but ambushed or executed, there was not a fight. One does not expect a struggle with a dead person brought to the scene.

Where is the car she drove? Did she pull the money she paid for her fish sandwich from a purse or wallet- where is that? Where is her car key?

Maybe someone drove the car into a wooded area. Maybe it was successfully sunk somewhere at low tide? Maybe someone close to her killed her, then sold the car for junk? But even without the car, it can't have been THAT onerous to just go through the entire list of older convertibles in Suffolk county until you found hers?

There were a little over a million people living in all of Suffolk in 1978. That's a lot, but.... seems like somehow someone should have found someone.

If she lived somewhere- someone should be able to report she suddenly moved out. If she lived in her car, someone should have noticed she stopped washing up at a certain gas station, or reading the papers at a certain library, or going though a certain regular trash bin, or picking up food at a certain charity, or from a particular individual who regularly threw out/shared their lunch. She had to buy gas, and occasionally top off oil, somewhere.

Where is her car?

It is really a strange case to be unsolved.

Stranger still that Tierney has just possibly hinted that it is related to Rex Heuermann, who was a child when she was shot to death. It is not a viable theory that a child found a victim no one would report missing, shot her, then disappeared her car.

The news stories do not mention explicitly state the car was never recovered. Nor is the description of the car in name us. So, maybe the car was found? If that's the case, it seems impossible that they don't know who she is.

MOO

Heuermann was about 15 when this woman was discovered. Unfortunately, there are killers who start their crimes early in life, especially serial killers, in their teens. Ted Bundy was believed to have started his criminal activities in his teens. Some investigators think that he kidnapped and murdered a girl who lived near him in Tacoma. Bundy would have been 14 when that happened.

Heuermann probably can't be ruled out. IMO the crimes he's charged with may be the tip of the iceberg....

 

[Ruminations]

Maybe she was never reported as diseased because someone wanted to collect social security checks.

In 1978, there would be paper checks returned to SSA endorsed by the person who cashed them and with notes about where they were cashed or deposited.

If Montauk Mary regularly cashed her check the same place for cash, that would be yet another place that would know her. She apparently wasn't a drinker, so she probably did not cash checks at a bar. If she had SS, she could have cashed her check at a supermarket, which wasn't that uncommon. Once again, they'd know her.

So, someone would know she was missing.

Then, where would the checks be cashed after her death? Someone would have to know of a new person, cashing checks. ID was not picture- a NYS license, which I presume she had, would not have a picture but her height, eye color, DOB. But somebody would suddenly have a new person cashing checks. They'd have to either forge a license with her name, or generally match her height and age. Another investigation angle could be, is there somebody new cashing checks. That name could be chased down, and the actual paper checks, after having been cashed, would be stored with SSA.

It was slow with hand accounting, maybe even a year later, but it would also be noted eventually if someone stopped cashing her checks but was not listed as dead yet. SSA does follow up on dead people cashing checks and presumably live people failing to. Especially the former, but still.

Now, if this were a serial killer, they'd be uninterested in the checks. That's another reason why it is weird Tierney mentioned her with an absolute reason- whatever that use of English means. No missing report and her missing car makes it seem like someone she knew killed her. As does the possibility that someone wanted her paltry income for themselves. But- Tierney mentioned her with other victims who seem more like serial killer or gang initiation type killings.

It's very weird.

MOO