NY - Officer Daniel Pantaleo used deadly chokehold on Eric Garner, Staten Island, July 2014

[bwt42]

I just watched the video of the aftermath of the confrontation with my spouse. The female emt that felt the carotid artery & addressed EG, did she think he was alive or was she part of a cover-up.

 

[bwt42]

If a man abducts a woman, and she has a heart attack while she is tied up in the trunk, I wonder how much support there would be to charge him w/ manslaughter or something higher. Or is he absolved from all charges because he didn't actually kill her?

If a COP is chasing a perp & the perp is hit & killed by a car, did the cop use excessive force?

 

[cady]

If a COP is chasing a perp & the perp is hit & killed by a car, did the cop use excessive force?

Depends...JMO

 

[katydid23]

katydid23, I respect you opinion and you quite often put together well thought out posts. I agree and understand with most of what you are saying here, but IMO the BBM is just unbelievable that these guys are saying stuff like this in public. THAT is where the mistrust stems from. Minorities KNOW most LE feel that way so do you understand why they would be unable to trust LE? People of color truly do have fear that when they come in contact with LE things can go downhill hard and in a hurry. That comment scares me and worries me. That is the exact attitude an thought process that is in desperate need of a change and is why there are thousands and thousands of people protest from on end of America to the other. The fear is real, they are not pretending. You should not be fearful of the very people you are paying to serve and protect you, it is as simple as that.

But the truth is the TRUTH. Do you think the cops feel the same level of danger in Pacific Palisades as they do in Compton? They do not get shot at by random passerby's in Pacific Palisades. Why should they not speak the truth?

Look at the obvious ANGER and HATRED from the marchers. Look at the vile insults and threats screamed into the cops faces. And you are going to say the cops do not know the danger they face in the minority communities?

It is a vicious cycle but cannot be blamed entirely on the cops. My sons friend with the LAPD asked to be working South Centrsal because he wanted to go to that community to HELP the young people there. he had nothing but LOVE for the community as his grandparents lived there and he has many friends and relatives there. But he has a lot of very bad feelings now. He feels that it is the community that is acting out in bad ways and not the cops.

The cops FEARS are real too. And they should not have to FEAR the people they are paid to serve and protect. It is as simple as that.

 

[CoolJ]

If a COP is chasing a perp & the perp is hit & killed by a car, did the cop use excessive force?

If the cop meant to hit him, you are darn right that is excessive force. IMO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

For me this case is really simple. The man was asked to show id and then resisted. The officers were attempting to take him into custody and he resisted. They then did tried to get him to comply and a choke hold was used to get him to the ground. None of which would have happened if he had just produced the id and then complied with officers. As anyone should do.
It is a tragedy that he is dead but not the officers fault. He was fighting them instead of just complying.

No one was trying to hurt him or beat him or shoot him. And it was not an intentional death. IMO

 

[bwt42]

katydid23, I respect you opinion and you quite often put together well thought out posts. I agree and understand with most of what you are saying here, but IMO the BBM is just unbelievable that these guys are saying stuff like this in public. THAT is where the mistrust stems from. Minorities KNOW most LE feel that way so do you understand why they would be unable to trust LE? People of color truly do have fear that when they come in contact with LE things can go downhill hard and in a hurry. That comment scares me and worries me. That is the exact attitude an thought process that is in desperate need of a change and is why there are thousands and thousands of people protest from on end of America to the other. The fear is real, they are not pretending. You should not be fearful of the very people you are paying to serve and protect you, it is as simple as that.

Your losing me. Are you saying we should have braver COPS that aren't afraid to go into dangerous neighborhoods. Not disagreeing.

 

[CoolJ]

But the truth is the TRUTH. Do you think the cops feel the same level of danger in Pacific Palisades as they do in Compton? They do not get shot at by random passerby's in Pacific Palisades. Why should they not speak the truth?

Look at the obvious ANGER and HATRED from the marchers. Look at the vile insults and threats screamed into the cops faces. And you are going to say the cops do not know the danger they face in the minority communities?

It is a vicious cycle but cannot be blamed entirely on the cops. My sons friend with the LAPD asked to be working South Centrsal because he wanted to go to that community to HELP the young people there. he had nothing but LOVE for the community as his grandparents lived there and he has many friends and relatives there. But he has a lot of very bad feelings now. He feels that it is the community that is acting out in bad ways and not the cops.

The cops FEARS are real too. And they should not have to FEAR the people they are paid to serve and protect. It is as simple as that.

It is not minorities they have to fear!!!!! It is criminals!!! They come in all colors! That attitude is the root cause of this problem. Have a look at the protesters in NYC, it is a VERY diverse crowd probably majority white crowd. The rest of the world gets it! Why are the cops lagging behind?

 

[bwt42]

If the cop meant to hit him, you are darn right that is excessive force. IMO

You really lost me on that.

 

[CoolJ]

You really lost me on that.

Lost you? Why? Do you think a cop should be allowed to run over a bad guy?

 

[SStarr33]

When you break the law and resist arrest anything can happen, if he would have just turned around and let the cops cuff him this might not have happened. This was his 30th+ arrest he should have know the drill by now.

Yup. And in fact, EG told the cops he would not stand for being arrested. He said, "this stops today", which to me means he was resisting big time.

 

[Zuri]

For me this case is really simple. The man was asked to show id and then resisted. The officers were attempting to take him into custody and he resisted. They then did tried to get him to comply and a choke hold was used to get him to the ground. None of which would have happened if he had just produced the id and then complied with officers. As anyone should do.
It is a tragedy that he is dead but not the officers fault. He was fighting them instead of just complying.

No one was trying to hurt him or beat him or shoot him. And it was not an intentional death. IMO

I agree that there was no harm intended. My issue is not with the arrest itself, it is the aftermath where SG went unresponsive. This is not a race issue or a criminal issue or legal issue for me. It is a human issue whereby SG was obviously unresponsive and there was what appeared to me to be a lack of urgency to assist him, from a medical perspective. JMO

 

[CoolJ]

Where did that happen here? They asked him for id. How is that assuming he is bad? He was carrying loose tobacco which is illegal yes?

I am replying to katydid23's post. Read what cop friends have to say about minorities.

 

[al66pine]

.... Would it surprise you to know that I also think it's a stupid law?
I do find the following to be an interesting thought exercise though: let's say Mr Garner was a white, tea party patriot, settin outside the general store of ye olde country town, anywhere, USA, engaging in selling loosies. Cops come in and take him down and he ends up dead. What is the reaction then? Well then Mr Garner is just a good old boy being hassled by the liberal government overstepping it's bounds by regulating smoking! Outrage! He'd be a martyr on the right lol. ....

sbm bbm

Gardenlady,
- agreeing that it's an interesting thought exercise and am glad you posted it.
-assuming untaxed cig sales are illegal in this hypo gen store.

In your hypo...
Did MrG tell LEO things like - 'Don't touch me' or 'I'm not going to jail' or 'I won't be arrested again'???

Did MrG flail his hands and arms around??????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Did he step away from the LEO??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Dodge or duck away as LEO tried to put cuffs on him??????????????????????????????????????????

If some or all of the above, MrG was resisting arrest, imo (and per archangel7 Verified LEO, per his earlier post, I believe).

True, regardless of -
---being in NYC or Smalltown/Backwoods USA,
---whether selling on sidewalk, Ye Olde Country Store,
---his political affiliation and the LEO's affiliation,
---nature of the offense for the underlying arrest.
---aso regardless of whether you think, I think, or MrG thinks criminalizing sales of untaxed cigs is stupid.

If MrG did none of the above in your hypo and put his hands out or back to be cuffed, then diff thinking about his death.

JM2cts.

 

[CHERIE.T]

You really lost me on that.

that was the point, .

 

[CoolJ]

It is about 'thugs' --NOT race. ANY low income neighborhood is a difficult place for them to patrol--no matter the race.

But we cannot ignore the violent gangs and their threats to kill the cops. Cops live with that every day and night. And if they are driving through Compton they are going to have their weapons at hand. Full Stop.

Then why are the cops talking about minorities? Why aren't they talking about the thugs and criminals?

 

[bwt42]

True story. My spouse & I made a wrong turn leaving a Chicago convention hall & ended up in Cabrini Green. Two black police officers saw us & knew we didn't belong there. They stopped us & we explained what happened. They said we were in a dangerous neighborhood & they escorted us until we were safely on the interstate. I have been a fan of profiling ever since.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Yup. And in fact, EG told the cops he would not stand for being arrested. He said, "this stops today", which to me means he resisting big time.

Let's not forget reports that state he was previously arrested THIRTY ONE TIMES!

 

[Gardenlady]

If it's not about race, then why are so many non-"" (your word) people out there protesting? Why do so many non-"thugs" have their own story about mistreatment at the hands of LE?

Are they all just simply lying?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Zuri]

I just watched the video of the aftermath of the confrontation with my spouse. The female emt that felt the carotid artery & addressed EG, did she think he was alive or was she part of a cover-up.

What were your thoughts on what you saw? I would be interested in yours and your spouse's perception. I know my DH perception of the incident was different than mine on face value when it first happened.

Cover up? I don't understand that part of the question. TIA