NY - Officer Daniel Pantaleo used deadly chokehold on Eric Garner, Staten Island, July 2014

[jmcgladr]

Re the cover up part, I guess I wouldn't use the term cover up, but the cop on the right seemed to know something was wrong. He was the one who attempted to arouse SG and had his hand inside the shirt to feel for breathing. He did a good job. If you watch his body language and his facial expressions, he reminds me of when there is a serious screw up in the hospital. Same face. I think he was the only one there who seemed to have a clue. IMOO

He could have done a much BETTER job if he had performed CPR. Why didn't he, do you think?

 

[Really?]

People need to know that if they are getting arrested they are not allowed to say "please don't arrest me" or else they may get a subsequent beating.
I wonder if this goes for traffic violation too, if I get pulled over for speeding and I say "please officer, don't give me a ticket" does he then have the right to lay a beat down on me for resisting his demands?

BBM:....well now that depends on how long it took you to pull over....moo

 

[katydid23]

He could have done a much BETTER job if he had performed CPR. Why didn't he, do you think?

I think because the victim was still breathing. You don't give CPR in that case.

 

[Sonya610]

<modsnip>
First of all most likely no one in your middle class neighborhood would buy your loosey cigarettes. If you loitered in front of stores offering your "looseys" all day they WOULD eventually ask you to leave or call the police.

Loitering is bad for most businesses especially when they face lots of competition, even in my small town there are a couple of gas stations that attract loiters and I don't visit them, I don't want to have a group of males watching as I pull up and walk inside the store. It makes me uncomfortable so like many other paying customers I go down the street to another business.

<modsnip>

 

[SStarr33]

But is there a link that proves it's doctored (i.e. an outside source declaring it "doctored")? Or is it just supposition/analysis in this thread?

No link is needed, just your eyes.

 

[Nana]

No. Kind of my point. I'm Caucasian and female and middle class and live in a good neighborhood. I'm not the type of person "profiled" by police. I could sell loose cigs all day (not that I'm inclined to do so) and nobody would ever try to arrest me. One criticism of the "broken windows" policy is that it focuses on lower socioeconomic neighborhoods inordinately (and hence minority citizens inordinately).

Respectfully, requesting....
Could you or would you please try this and come back and tell us what happened?

 

[cady]

Not about them. It's the LAW.

So, Stop and Frisk is just a free-for-all? At what point is a person under arrest? JMO

 

[SStarr33]

I got the impression she was saying something really quietly to the officer beside her. Probably didn't want the person taking the video to hear it. Maybe it was "he's dead" or something... JMO BTW is this the video people are suggesting is "doctored"? B/C this is not the video the man who was indicted (on unrelated charges) took. He was way off to the left side of this scene (if you are facing the road).

Are you talking about the short video of the beginning of his arrest?

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

People need to know that if they are getting arrested they are not allowed to say "please don't arrest me" or else they may get a subsequent beating.
I wonder if this goes for traffic violation too, if I get pulled over for speeding and I say "please officer, don't give me a ticket" does he then have the right to lay a beat down on me for resisting his demands?

I'm sure that your words & your actions would determine LE's response.
Try mouthing off, asking them not to arrest you, and not allowing LE to handcuff you.
See what happens & after your incarceration (which I believe will happen after they take you down), kindly report back to us here. I'm sure that would happen to me. Positive it would.
I feel that race, socioeconomic status, the color of your clothing, etc, etc, plays very little into this.

 

[SStarr33]

He could have done a much BETTER job if he had performed CPR. Why didn't he, do you think?

Because EG had a pulse and was breathing.

http://nwneuro.com/Library/Item.aspx?HWID=emerg&SEC=hw154557

The American Heart Association recommends these guidelines for CPR.

Doing CPR the wrong way or on a person whose heart is still beating can cause serious harm. Do not do CPR unless:

An adult is not breathing normally (may be gasping for breath), or a child is not breathing at all.
The person does not breathe or move in response to being touched or talked to (Step 1, below).
No one with more training in CPR than you is present. If you are the only one there, do the best you can.

 

[Zuri]

Because EG had a pulse and was breathing.

http://nwneuro.com/Library/Item.aspx?HWID=emerg&SEC=hw154557

The American Heart Association recommends these guidelines for CPR.

Doing CPR the wrong way or on a person whose heart is still beating can cause serious harm. Do not do CPR unless:

An adult is not breathing normally (may be gasping for breath), or a child is not breathing at all.
The person does not breathe or move in response to being touched or talked to (Step 1, below).
No one with more training in CPR than you is present. If you are the only one there, do the best you can.

Respectfully, If you look at the "Unless" part, I think you might see cause TO perform CPR in this case.
To be fair, I don't think LE recognized the extent of SG condition, which would be normal as they are not medically trained. They did call an ambulance as they did realize something was wrong.

IMO LE did not "kill" SG from what I could see on video. I think there were some contributory factors, but ultimately, EG's co-morbidities played a big factor. IMO

 

[Sonya610]

Because EG had a pulse and was breathing.

Exactly, everything I have read said you only do CPR if the person's heart has stopped OR they have stopped breathing.

In addition CPR very often cracks the patients ribs even with healthy adults, EMT's often say the dead can't feel it, and if they come back alive and are in pain at least they are alive!

Needless to say if someone was having an asthma attack or otherwise struggling to breath having someone break their ribs while doing CPR would be a very bad thing and certainly would NOT help them as they were struggling for breath. It would also likely lead to lawsuits.

 

[Zuri]

<modsnip>

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...ry-evidence-public-thursday-article-1.2033065

http://www.northcountrypublicradio....ner-case-heard-from-50-witnesses-saw-4-videos

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/on-th...dence-versus-eric-garner-grand-jurys-decision

I haven't been able to find a copy of the autopsy report, but read the above linked articles which outlines how the GJ came to their decision. Baden discusses some of the medical forensic evidence.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

As I've indicated before.....research needs to be done to determine if there is a cultural, racial, or socioeconomic difference on the perception of what people think the role (aka job duties) of police officers are.

Start there. Before we try to fix the matter. Please. Clarify this to our society as well as the consequences if you do not understand the role. We must have this research & the outcomes be made clear because I fear certain segments of the population does not know. Announce the "cause & effect" type of situations. Clarify the role & then teach it in our schools. The conversations about this must be clear. Take hate, socioeconomics, & whatever else is going on out of the equation because right now we are all just like dogs chasing it's own tail about these issues.


Here's mine & I hope you don't mind me sharing my personal take (& no criticism needed on my views, please): LE is here to enforce the law. Do not get mouthy. Obey the law & if you aren't, do not resist arrest. Do not personally interpret the law to your own liking. If you feel you've been treated unjustly, the courts will be the place to voice that. If you get irate towards an officer, you are a fool cause they are wearing a gun for a reason. Don't agitate them. I like to obey the law cause it makes my life easier & more productive.
Respect the officers--they have a tough job. I want them to aggressively pursue a perp if I should be a victim. I don't view them as peace-keepers (that should be a citizens role), I don't view them as negotiators (that's for the SWAT teams), I don't view them as a mentor or big brother (that's family members duties).
This is my general viewpoint on what I think LE's role is in our society which is based on my cultural, educational, racial, & socioeconomic background. I had an extended family & these rules I learned mostly from parents & grandparents.

What is the role of our police officers today? Where does their duties start & stop? What are the citizens duties?

These are the questions that must be addressed & clarified first.

All moo

 

[Gardenlady]

This type of theory gets shoved down your throat during college.
The problem is that most of us grow up, live real life, & see it's not valid.

Nope, you choose to believe that everyone with a story about unequal treatment is simply lying.


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[ATasteOfHoney]

Your feeling about race and socioeconomic status are just that - feelings. And NOT borne out by statistics and experience. Sure, if you're not a person of color it's easy to believe your feeling is fact - but it would require discounting all the stories of people of color from all walks of life. Are they all lying?


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I understand my feelings quite well, thank you. And I don't think using the term "all" as in are they all lying in your post is accurate. It is very hard for you or anyone to use such a broad stroke as "all".
And sorry, there are lots of statistics. Dyodd.

But I want more research and more clarification. Read my post above about that.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Nope, you choose to believe that everyone with a story about unequal treatment is simply lying.


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Too broad sweeping....."everyone".

 

[Gardenlady]

Too broad sweeping....."everyone".

I am too broad and sweeping? When your post was the one that said you grew up and realized it was all invalid? Lol!

Easy to say, easy to dismiss - I will ask again. How many of the people with a story are making it up, in your opinion? How do you account for all the stories? And with all the stories people have, how on earth can you dismiss their viewpoint as invalid?

Because it sounds to me like doing nothing more than sticking fingers in ears an chanting "lalalalala can't hear you!"


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[ATasteOfHoney]

I am too broad and sweeping? When your post was the one that said you grew up and realized it was all invalid? Lol!

Easy to say, easy to dismiss - I will ask again. How many of the people with a story are making it up, in your opinion? How do you account for all the stories? And with all the stories people have, how on earth can you dismiss their viewpoint as invalid?

Because it sounds to me like doing nothing more than sticking fingers in ears an chanting "lalalalala can't hear you!"


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My post # 744 gets at what I feel is the heart of the matter.
Thank you.

 

[Gardenlady]

My post # 744 gets at what I feel is the heart of the matter.
Thank you.

You're welcome. But I'd still like you to explain how you arrive at the following dismissive conclusion, in the face of both statistics and personal stories:

This type of theory gets shoved down your throat during college.

The problem is that most of us grow up, live real life, see it's not valid.

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