NY NY - Patrick Alford, 7, Brooklyn, 22 Jan 2010 - #2

[OldSteve]

Considering it's been said that Patrick had been looking to runaway back to his mother, it's to bad they didn't or couldn't allow supervised visitation between Patrick and his mother...

 

[katydid23]

Considering it's been said that Patrick had been looking to runaway back to his mother, it's to bad they didn't or couldn't allow supervised visitation between Patrick and his mother...

I agree. Was 'shoplifting' her big offense? That hardly seems like a valid reason to lose custody of one's children forever. imo

 

[McSpy]

I agree. Was 'shoplifting' her big offense? That hardly seems like a valid reason to lose custody of one's children forever. imo

I have a feeling there was neglect too. Also, I have a feeling she had been in trouble in the past. People don't usually end up in jail on a first offense charge of shoplifting.

 

[McSpy]

This article says there was neglect:

*Rodriguez lost custody of Patrick after she was arrested on theft charges and they found he was being neglected.*

http://www.examiner.com/missing-per...ord-missing-brooklyn-7-year-old-gone-one-year

 

[McSpy]

An early article said they had to go to or through the lobby area to take out the trash. Not sure if the receptacle was in the lobby our outside, but I was under the impression that it was in the lobby. That could be wrong, though.

The apartment complex does not have video surveillance. Other cameras in the area captured the foster mother outside looking for Patrick. IF those same cameras also captured images of Patrick, we haven't been told about it.

Patrick's scent was also picked up at a Staten Island man's house. No idea what led them to search there. No idea if the guy was known to the family. No idea if Patrick had been there before. But it was mentioned for about a day or two, then nothing was ever said about it again. That has always made me very curious.

Not much has been released about the foster mother, at all. I'm not sure how many kids she was taking care of at the time. At least 2 (Patrick and his sister). She'd been a foster parent for 20 years without incident, though. But, at least up until this time last year... she has not been removed from the list of approved foster care providers, but she has not been given any additional foster children since Patrick disappeared while in her care.


I agree that Patrick's case seems to be at a major roadblock. But thank you. Seriously. Thank you for taking the time to throw some ideas around. You never know when something will pop loose and we will have a new idea.

BbM

Did the media include a name or address or street name for this individual?

It seems like this had to be connected to the mother, because I doubt someone living on Staten Island would be in Brooklyn by chance to kidnap Patrick, unless it was for the mother or her family. I also can't imagine Patrick happening upon an individual from Staten Is. while on a bus, train or on the streets of Brooklyn. It would have been a strange coincidence if it was true. Maybe this individual knew Patrick and Patrick was in his home at one time, which may explain Patrick's scent there.

 

[McSpy]

Did Patrick's mother know the foster mother's address? Was this info allowed to be given to bio parents? I wonder if it was possible someone in the mother's circle went to the foster mother's home on his own to take Patrick for his own benefit. Perhaps, he participated or overheard conversations about Patrick living in a foster home, while hanging out with the mother, her friends or relatives.

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Considering it's been said that Patrick had been looking to runaway back to his mother, it's to bad they didn't or couldn't allow supervised visitation between Patrick and his mother...

They did. The attached picture was from Patrick's last visit with his mother.

I agree. Was 'shoplifting' her big offense? That hardly seems like a valid reason to lose custody of one's children forever. imo

She was arrested for shoplifting, and upon further investigation, they found signs of neglect. There was also an issue that Jennifer admitted to drug use, and asked for help. But, instead of helping, they took the kids.

HOWEVER, information that was recently released said that when Patrick was "taken from his mother's custody"...he wasn't even living with her. He and his sister had been living with their aunt. So that throws another wrench into things. Why remove them from the aunt's care when she was capable and willing to care for them.

BbM

Did the media include a name or address or street name for this individual?

It seems like this had to be connected to the mother, because I doubt someone living on Staten Island would be in Brooklyn by chance to kidnap Patrick, unless it was for the mother or her family. I also can't imagine Patrick happening upon an individual from Staten Is. while on a bus, train or on the streets of Brooklyn. It would have been a strange coincidence if it was true. Maybe this individual knew Patrick and Patrick was in his home at one time, which may explain Patrick's scent there.

Yes, the media included a name, but no address (but a general area). But because he hasn't been named as a POI and has not been mentioned since, mods have decided we don't need to dredge up his name here on the thread. He is OF of the Mariner's Harbor area of Staten Island.

Did Patrick's mother know the foster mother's address? Was this info allowed to be given to bio parents? I wonder if it was possible someone in the mother's circle went to the foster mother's home on his own to take Patrick for his own benefit. Perhaps, he participated or overheard conversations about Patrick living in a foster home, while hanging out with the mother, her friends or relatives.

The story floating around the media was that Patrick's mother did NOT know the foster mother's address, but somehow "found" the place when handing out flyers after Patrick disappeared. Not sure if that's media dramatics or what actually happened. The address of the place was in the media, so it wouldn't surprise me if they came across it when passing out flyers in the general area.

I think most of Patrick's family and his mother's family/friends were under pretty close scrutiny from very early on. But that's always a possibility.

 

[OldSteve]

Wow! That attached picture of Patrick's last visit with his mother is a real heart breaker!
Thanks for clearing up my misconception about his not seeing his mother.
Now I got to wonder, if he thought his mom was having a difficult time, and that his being away was only till things got better for her, and he was allowed to see her, and if he was being treating right where he was staying - would he still want to run away?

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Wow! That attached picture of Patrick's last visit with his mother is a real heart breaker!
Thanks for clearing up my misconception about his not seeing his mother.
Now I got to wonder, if he thought his mom was having a difficult time, and that his being away was only till things got better for her, and he was allowed to see her, and if he was being treating right where he was staying - would he still want to run away?

Isn't it!!!

It recently came to light that Patrick may have had some emotional/psychiatric issues.

The child, who had documented emotional and educational issues, was so unhappy that he began to experience psychiatric problems and tried to run away on several occasions.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/foster_fiasco_2t4PoiyY60swRmOCmHCVXN

But...I can't imagine going through what Patrick went through would be easy on any child. If I, as a 7-year-old, was ripped away from my mother, taken out of my school and away from my friends, and placed with someone who barely spoke my language...I'd probably be pretty upset and have a few emotional and psychological issues myself.

 

[McSpy]

Did Patrick have any siblings and if not, did he have cousins where he lived with his aunt?

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Yes, Patrick has two sisters, both younger. One of whom was also placed with him in foster care (she was 4 at the time).
I'm not sure about cousins with that particular aunt.

 

[katydid23]

Yes, Patrick has two sisters, both younger. One of whom was also placed with him in foster care (she was 4 at the time).
I'm not sure about cousins with that particular aunt.

It is kind of hard for me to believe that he would run away and leave his baby sister there without him. I would think, given the sad situation, that he would be protective of her.

I wonder if it is possible that he did take out the garbage, and ran into foul play. ?

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

It is kind of hard for me to believe that he would run away and leave his baby sister there without him. I would think, given the sad situation, that he would be protective of her.

I wonder if it is possible that he did take out the garbage, and ran into foul play. ?

That's always possible, too. Like you, I've always wondered why he wouldn't attempt to bring his sister if he was running away.

 

[McSpy]

That's always possible, too. Like you, I've always wondered why he wouldn't attempt to bring his sister if he was running away.

I agree. Usually, siblings are a comfortable stability in a kid's life. They share the same pain and generally draw comfort from each other in the early years. Unless, they were separated a lot, it does make me wonder why he would leave his sister behind, unless he thought he could rescue at another time.

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Maybe he tried to convince his sister (JA) to go with him, but couldn't get her to. Maybe she was too scared? Or perhaps he just didn't have the opportunity to grab JA when he got the chance to get away?

Of course, Patrick "always wanting/trying to run away" could be a good cover story if something else happened to him.

Or it could be just a very unfortunate coincidence. Someone could have grabbed him as he really was just taking out the trash, only to have LE be told that he wanted to run away, so he must have. Or, to be told that his mother probably took him.

 

[McSpy]

Maybe he tried to convince his sister (JA) to go with him, but couldn't get her to. Maybe she was too scared? Or perhaps he just didn't have the opportunity to grab JA when he got the chance to get away?

Of course, Patrick "always wanting/trying to run away" could be a good cover story if something else happened to him.

Or it could be just a very unfortunate coincidence. Someone could have grabbed him as he really was just taking out the trash, only to have LE be told that he wanted to run away, so he must have. Or, to be told that his mother probably took him.

Did they check people in that apartment complex? Was it a huge complex or just an apartment building? I can see why this case is so hard for LE. There are almost too many suspects.

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

They talked to everyone in the building.

Over 14,000 people were interviewed, including all 6,000 residents of the apartment complex Patrick disappeared from.

You know, looking further into this, I guess I always assumed that "Spring Creek Towers" was one complex/area, maybe like 2 buildings together. But it looks like it's actually *8 different sections*.

I can't find anything specific about Patrick's building, but in his entire development, the Spring Creek towers area...

The residential portion of the property has eight "sections" each including several buildings, its own field, recreational area (jungle gym, park, handball court, basketball court) and a parking garage for residents in that section. These sections are Ardsley, Bethel, Croton, Delmar, Elmira, Freeport, Geneva, and Hornell; each named after municipalities in Westchester County and upstate New York (except for Freeport, which is on Long Island). Each building has between 11 and 20 floors, with eight apartments on most floors. All of the apartment buildings have a street address as well as a building name consisting of one letter from A-H, and one number from 1-8. In this case, A5 would refer to the fifth building of Ardsley Loop.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starrett_City,_Brooklyn

The address they give for Patrick's disappearance (130 Vandalia Ave.) looks like it puts him on the Ardsley loop. But if they said 6,000 residents, I'm wondering if they didn't talk to everyone in the entire Starrett City / Spring Creek housing development.


There is a creek on BOTH sides of the Spring Creek development. These creeks both lead into Jamaica Bay, which further leads into the Atlantic Ocean.

Gosh, I've never even thought about that option in Patrick's disappearance. I hate to even consider it now.

 

[Sooner Fan#1]

7-year-old Patrick Alford had just moved in with his foster family 3 weeks prior to disappearing on January 22, 2010. He disappeared while going with his foster mother to take out the trash. At first, LE called this 7-year-old child a "runaway". Now they say he may have been abducted.

Patrick Alford
Date of disappearance - January 22, 2010
Time of disappearance - 9:00 pm
Place of disappearance - Spring Creek development in the Starrett City section of Brooklyn, NY (130 Vandalia Ave.)
Last seen wearing - Red t-shirt, blue jeans, blue and black Michael Jordan sneakers

Foster Mom - Librada Moran
This is who Patrick was last seen by, and who he was with when he disappeared.

Bio-Mom - Jennifer Rodriguez
Lost custody of Patrick when she was jailed for petty larceny.

Bio-Dad - Patrick Alford
We don't know much about him.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94415&page=23

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Sooner did you mean to reply to this post or were you wanting to highlight something?

 

[cocolafay]

Thinking of Patrick and reading through the latest posts always hoping for something new. Someday!!!!!!!!!