GUILTY NY - Phoenix & Luna Rodriguez, 1, twins, die in hot car, Bronx, 26 July 2019 *No jail*

[Timekeeper65]

@MsFacetious...you have eloquently stated what I am unable to do. THANK YOU. I hope this answers some questions. Maybe some folks will gain understanding and some empathy.

 

[MsFacetious]

I am a big believer in extended rear facing, so I want solutions which allow parents to recognize the kids are still back there. Statistically they are much more likely to be internally decapitated in a crash while forward facing too soon.

Anyway, I believe this article Gitana posted might even spell it out better than the one I posted. It gives specific examples and even cites a child who survived that I hadn't heard about.

'Forgotten Baby Syndrome': A Parent’s Nightmare of Hot Car Death

Ray Ray's family is still trying to prevent further deaths like hers:

'This too can happen to you': Mother urges parents to prevent hot car deaths

Ray Ray's Pledge

Here's a case I never forgot. This couple fought hard to have a child, were super protective and super educated. But the dad left his baby in the car.

They later had a second child with Down syndrome.

Losing Mikey

I have also never forgotten Mikey. Last I checked they not only had Danny, but I believe a set of boy/girl twins 2 years after Danny. I'm very glad they were able to carry on with life.

I'm always amazed when these couples stay together. With the divorce rate so high when a couple loses a child, then you add in one partner being "at fault" it truly is amazing.

 

[mickey2942]

@MsFacetious...you have eloquently stated what I am unable to do. THANK YOU. I hope this answers some questions. Maybe some folks will gain understanding and some empathy.

I have empathy. And understanding. I can easily see how this could happen.

The problem is, when officers see a distraught, parent, who forgot a baby in a car, and the baby dies. The parent is treated like a victim of a tragedy, with sympathy and empathy.

In comparison, with the same EXACT situation, baby dies in hot car, and parent receives prison sentence.

Explain to me, why this makes sense?

 

[MsFacetious]

More than 650 children have died of heat stroke in vehicles in the last two decades, more than half in the South. About 38 die each year, according the child-safety advocacy group Kids and Cars. About 60 percent of those parents are charged with a crime, from neglect to murder, and just about every one responsible believed it could never happen to them.

Monsters or mortals? Children in car seats too often out of sight and mind (John Archibald)

 

[Rosegold68]

Sorry I have zero empathy. In all those cases

Not only are you leaving a child in a hot vehicle but you are also leaving them unattended in a public place

2 crimes in one

Some people don’t deserve children.

 

[gitana1]

I am a big believer in extended rear facing, so I want solutions which allow parents to recognize the kids are still back there. Statistically they are much more likely to be internally decapitated in a crash while forward facing too soon.

Anyway, I believe this article Gitana posted might even spell it out better than the one I posted. It gives specific examples and even cites a child who survived that I hadn't heard about.

'Forgotten Baby Syndrome': A Parent’s Nightmare of Hot Car Death

Ray Ray's family is still trying to prevent further deaths like hers:

'This too can happen to you': Mother urges parents to prevent hot car deaths

Ray Ray's Pledge





I have also never forgotten Mikey. Last I checked they not only had Danny, but I believe a set of boy/girl twins 2 years after Danny. I'm very glad they were able to carry on with life.

I'm always amazed when these couples stay together. With the divorce rate so high when a couple loses a child, then you add in one partner being "at fault" it truly is amazing.

I found an update. In this article I'm not sure why these two cases were compared. One was inadvertent and one was intentional (although he didn't want to kill or hurt his kid):

2 fathers treated very differently

 

[gitana1]

If Rodriguez didn't smell anything that caused concern, what did make him decide to pull over after driving out of the hospital parking lot and end up two blocks away?

Maybe he did smell something, looked around and finally saw his kids.

 

[gitana1]

If a person needs to put something important in the back seat to remind themselves that they are in charge of the very survival of an innocent human life, how does this same person know when to feed or bathe the child?

Do they have to leave notes around the house reminding themselves of the basic responsibilities parents have to ensure the child lives?

Why I'm getting from this post is that you are simply refusing to read the articles. This is a very specific thing that happens:

1. In cars.
2. Due to driving on autopilot
3. Due to exhaustion that enables the mind to go more quickly into autopilot.
4. Due to a change in routine the morning of the drive.
5. Due to a child who is quiet that particular morning.
6. Due to rear facing car seats.

Parents often forget a myriad of things while caring for their kids. They forget the bottle in the microwave. Or that the baby has been fed or hasn't been.

The difference is the child is right there with them, they're expecting to be caring for them and the child is likely crying to remind them of their needs.

The accidental hot car death phenomena happens to exhausted parents who go on autopilot and don't recall they have their child with them, due to a confluence of specific events. The child is not supposed to be with them as they go about the day and they believe the child is safely being cared for elsewhere.

 

[Rosegold68]

That’s insulting to say parents are ‘exhausted ‘ and drive on ‘autopilot’

Maybe they should be banned from driving?

It was morning.....he’s likely been up a while,showered had coffee,food.....those kids weren’t newborns,up every few hours for a feed

 

[Rosegold68]

Accidental car death ‘phenomema’?? No...it’s no ‘phenomena’

It’s straightforward neglect!

 

[Timekeeper65]

@gitana1 THANK YOU.

You either understand or you don’t. I was in the “I don’t understand line”. Yes I was. I admit it. The remorse I now feel...

 

[gitana1]

I have empathy. And understanding. I can easily see how this could happen.

The problem is, when officers see a distraught, parent, who forgot a baby in a car, and the baby dies. The parent is treated like a victim of a tragedy, with sympathy and empathy.

In comparison, with the same EXACT situation, baby dies in hot car, and parent receives prison sentence.

Explain to me, why this makes sense?

First of all, as I have stated, they're not the exact same situations. Every case is different. Every case has unique facts.

Second, that's the same for the decision to file or not to file for every possible crime. Not just this.

Instead of advocating taking away the rights of the states to create their own laws and the right of prosecutors to decided who to charge and with what, if you don't like decisions made by your prosecutor, vote.

 

[Timekeeper65]

DBM

 

[gitana1]

Accidental car death ‘phenomema’?? No...it’s no ‘phenomena’

It’s straightforward neglect!

Then perhaps you can explain why this uptick in neglect when it comes to hot car deaths has occurred precisely with the change in laws and safety guidelines regarding rear facing car seats?

These neglectful parents are the same ones who are strictly following safety protocols so their kids don't get hurt in a car crash.

 

[Gardenista]

I noticed something when reading an article about this case.

The hugs I can understand but the cheers have me wondering what there is to cheer about. We have two dead children and a father facing prison. JMO

Dad whose infant twins died in hot car is 'devastated' attorney says

I was so weirded out by that cheer. TBH, I was also weirded out by the hug.

 

[gitana1]

That’s insulting to say parents are ‘exhausted ‘ and drive on ‘autopilot’

Maybe they should be banned from driving?

It was morning.....he’s likely been up a while,showered had coffee,food.....those kids weren’t newborns,up every few hours for a feed

How is it insulting to say these specific parents on that specific day are exhausted and drive on autopilot? That's simply fact? Anyone with kids knows how exhausted you can get.

I'm not a scientist but maybe if you actually read the articles you would be able to see how these scientists explain what happens.

Sorry I have zero empathy. In all those cases

Not only are you leaving a child in a hot vehicle but you are also leaving them unattended in a public place

2 crimes in one

Some people don’t deserve children.

You act like we are talking about people who intentionally leave their kids alone in a public place or alone in their cars.

We aren't. At least we don't have facts to assume that.

If they do, it's homicide to me.

 

[Rosegold68]

You can interpret it also as parents following these protocols for the other parents wishes when it comes to rear facing seats.

Also...out of sight out of mind

Why are these kids not a top priority in their minds? Extra marital texting and a rush to get to work seem to be priorities in the cases I’ve read

To hop out and walk off before returning in a minute having remembered is one thing, but going ALL DAY with your child not crossing your mind once to jolt your memory?

 

[gitana1]

I was so weirded out by that cheer. TBH, I was also weirded out by the hug.

The cheer seemed inappropriate. There's nothing to cheer about. Two kids suffered one of the most horrific deaths there are and their dad being bailed out isn't a cause for celebration.

But why on earth would family hugging the ravaged man who apparently was devoted to his kids and accidentally caused their deaths, why would that be weird? They love him. He's destroyed. He sobbed through his court appearance. Sobbed and shook. His family love him and understand the horror of being him at that moment.

What were they supposed to do, shake his hand?

 

[Rosegold68]

How is it insulting to say these specific parents on that specific day are exhausted and drive on autopilot? That's simply fact? Anyone with kids knows how exhausted you can get.

I'm not a scientist but maybe if you actually read the articles you would be able to see how these scientists explain what happens.



You act like we are talking about people who intentionally leave their kids alone in a public place or alone in their cars.

We aren't. At least we don't have facts to assume that.

If they do, it's homicide to me.

Hold on.....so they have released a statement to say he was on autopilot and was exhausted? Which article? I missed that admission

I’m a mum of 5, was lone parent for a fair chunk of that time whilst they were small. I know what kids can make you feel.

 

[gitana1]

You can interpret it also as parents following these protocols for the other parents wishes when it comes to rear facing seats.

Also...out of sight out of mind

Why are these kids not a top priority in their minds? Extra marital texting and a rush to get to work seem to be priorities in the cases I’ve read

To hop out and walk off before returning in a minute having remembered is one thing, but going ALL DAY with your child not crossing your mind once to jolt your memory?

I'm not sure why you're asking questions that are clearly answered in the articles that have been linked.

They don't go all day without thinking about their kids.