GUILTY NY - Phoenix & Luna Rodriguez, 1, twins, die in hot car, Bronx, 26 July 2019 *No jail*

[Safeguard]

Death or diapers wouldn't make much of a difference if he immediately rolled down the windows. I always do if it's warm out.

I feel like people are just gasping at stuff sometimes...

"This could never have happen to me because, I would have smelled, seen, remembered, never, ever forgot in the first place".

I'm more of a, "OMG I'm so thankful this never happened to me!" type. I've lived long enough, to know I don't know much. I never take anything for granted.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

so has this parent actually been properly diagnosed as having this forgotten baby syndrome then?

or are we just guessing?

Good question? Is there a way to know for certain if this father had this problem?

 

[blue22]

I'm not sort of understanding the point. I mean it kind of sounds like you actually are saying that either he intentionally murdered his kids because there's no way he could have missed them, or he saw them and just didn't give a rat's you know what? And every time he noticed them he just decided it wasn't a big deal? I mean are you saying he cruelly ignored them or you think he was super high or something?

I'm not really getting it. Because while you say you think he forgot and didn't intentionally kill them
you also seem to be saying there's no way he could have been in such close proximity and missed them.

Or are you saying that the fact that his brain enabled him to miss what others would not miss, means he's a criminal? A bad person because his brain works different?

Or a bad parent because you think there's no way you would miss that?

This confuses me. Do you think he's a bad parent in general and that's why he was able to not notice them or remember? That only bad parents would miss that? Because, why? They're stupid? They don't care?

How do you explain someone like the professor in Irvine? Mickey's dad who forgot his beloved son all day. A man who worked for years and spent thousands of thousands to make a baby and then nervously took baby safety classes and employed every safety technique taught to him, read all the baby care books and seemed devoted to his child, is that man somehow suddenl a terrible and negligent parent because his brain somehow failed him?

I don't understand.

If someone does something to make it easier for such a lapse to happen or if they intentionally leave their kid in a hot car not to die but because they can't be bothered, that clear negligence. I understand that.

I never said anything about bad or good parents, so I'm not sure why you are talking about that...?? People don't have to be terrible to commit negligence. They don't have to be wonderful, not to. This has nothing to do with character.

I don't think his brain failed him. I think his brain was never thinking about his children. His children were clearly not his priority mentally, emotionally, physically that day. To me ( do I need to scream IMO?) that is incredibly negligent. You can be dead tired, unbelievably stressed, ill, crushed by the world...and still make it a point to ensure they safety of your children. Millions and millions of people manage to do so in worse circumstances. You don't have to understand or relate to my opinion. That is not necessary here, or anywhere.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I feel like people are just gasping at stuff sometimes...

"This could never have happen to me because, I would have smelled, seen, remembered, never, ever forgot in the first place".

I'm more of a, "OMG I'm so thankful this never happened to me!" type. I've lived long enough, to know I don't know much. I never take anything for granted.

I remember during the Ross Harris case that many members insisted that he was guilty because he would have noticed a strong smell when he opened the car door at lunch. JMO

 

[Catmommy]

We have no report either of the Father taking an alcohol/drug test and/or passing/failing one. Had he taken one and passed, I think we would have heard about that. I truly don't know and I AM NOT ACCUSING. It's one of those things we'll never know but it may have helped one way of the other if he had, especially in his defense.

And why did he just pull over when he did realize? Why not drive them back to the VA hospital? They WILL provide emergency services in an emergency situation, especially one of children's life or death.

 

[Safeguard]

Good point, if this had been a daycare worker, hard to believe there wouldn’t be criminal prosecution.

The are generally multiple people, and checks and balances that are supposed to be going on at quality daycare services though. A business liability is different.imo.

 

[Safeguard]

I remember during the Ross Harris case that many members insisted that he was guilty because he would have noticed a strong smell when he opened the car door at lunch. JMO

I remember also, forensic experts testified that there likely wouldn't have been a very strong oder at that stage.

 

[Catmommy]

I remember also, forensic experts testified that there likely wouldn't have been a very strong oder at that stage.

Take a piece of cheese out of your fridge and lock it in a hot care (108 degrees or so) and see what you smell. Or a piece of pork, people and pigs are very similar flesh wise.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

What is criminal negligence?

But negligence also has a place—right next to recklessness—in criminal law. Some courts draw a distinction between the two terms, explaining that recklessness requires that the defendant actually appreciate the risk in question, while criminal negligence occurs when the defendant should have been aware of the risk. (See Ex parte Koppersmith, 701 So. 2d 821 (Ala. 1997).)

In my opinion Rodriguez should have been aware of the risk of death to his children if left in the car all day.

I guess the question is why he would not be aware of the risk and does the answer to that question absolve him of criminal conduct. JMO

What is criminal negligence?

 

[Safeguard]

Good question? Is there a way to know for certain if this father had this problem?

The problem is a slip of the mind .

A memory inserted that shouldn't be there. Something done daily is remembered as being done THAT day when it was a memory from another day.

Hard to prove, but we have likely all experienced the "syndrome" to a lesser degree, enough to KNOW it is ONE!

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I remember also, forensic experts testified that there likely wouldn't have been a very strong oder at that stage.

You're right. That testimony didn't help him.

In this case it's said by some that even if there was a strong odor that doesn't mean Rodriguez would be expected to act on it.

I'm at the point that I don't know what to think about any potential smell. JMO

 

[Catmommy]

I guess my point is that as sad and horrific and tragic and heartbreaking for this family as this is, there is someone responsible. What does prosecuting him serve? Maybe THIS will be the one case with consequences that keeps another parent from making the same mistake. If his incarceration causes one person to take extra care that their baby isn't literally baked alive in the family car, even by accident, then those babies death and their father's time served as a result will not be in vain.

 

[Rosegold68]

The problem is a slip of the mind .

A memory inserted that shouldn't be there. Something done daily is remembered as being done THAT day when it was a memory from another day.

Hard to prove, but we have likely all experienced the "syndrome" to a lesser degree, enough to KNOW it is ONE!

well what makes it a syndrome?

forgetting something...forgetfullness....its now a syndrome?

open the floodgates for allsorts of murders dressed up as 'sorry, i forgot"

 

[Catmommy]

Syndromes, being a collection of "symptoms" versus a recognized disease process is very very difficult to prove or disprove.

 

[Safeguard]

What does prosecuting him serve? Maybe THIS will be the one case with consequences that keeps another parent from making the same mistake

rsbm
Again and again, its been explained that parents are not being neglectful in many of these cases. They are in fact super conscious about their kids, which is why they believe they MUST have dropped the kids off safely, and it never occurred to them, a false memory slipped in.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I guess my point is that as sad and horrific and tragic and heartbreaking for this family as this is, there is someone responsible. What does prosecuting him serve? Maybe THIS will be the one case with consequences that keeps another parent from making the same mistake. If his incarceration causes one person to take extra care that their baby isn't literally baked alive in the family car, even by accident, then those babies death and their father's time served as a result will not be in vain.

I don't feel that Rodriguez should be prosecuted for murder like Ross Harris.

But shouldn't he be prosecuted for child neglect? JMO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Child Neglect

Child neglect is a form of abuse in which the caregiver fails to provide for the child in some way that could result in physical, emotional, psychological, or even educational harm. When most people consider mistreatment of a child, they think of active abuse -- the caregiver hurting or perhaps molesting the child -- but neglect is basically passive abuse

.

Child Neglect - FindLaw

 

[Deleted member 39678]

If I'm understanding the "Forgotten Baby Syndrome" correctly, Rodriguez may have been so forgetful of the mornings events that all later visual and olfactory signals that could have cued him to the presence of the twins were blocked.

Or he didn't get any of those signals at all because they didn't exist.

Or it's doesn't really matter if he saw or smelled anything because there was no intent on his part to harm the children so he committed no crime.

I don't know, this is a tough one to call. I'm leaning to at least charge him with child neglect. JMO

 

[beatrixpotter]

My question would be...so are accidents always neglect and abuse? Because accidents do happen and they happen a lot. My friend's 5 yo pulled a pot of hot pasta and needed a decent amount of medical care. Not hospitalized but burn treatment. I have another friend online whose child got severely burned by something on the stove once too. So does every parent whose child gets hurt in an accident get charged with neglect? Because in reality if a parent never takes their eyes off their children day and night the chances of an accident are massively increased.

Noah in TN? His grandmother took her eyes off him. He ran off. He got lost in the woods and wasn't found before he died of hypothermia. So should she have been charged? If she'd never took her eyes off him and maybe used a toddler leash he'd not be dead. Who and when gets to decide what's an accident and what's abuse? A friend of a friend had their toddler run over by the neighbor with his truck. No one had realized he'd got under the truck while they were talking outside. The neighbor didn't see him under the truck before backing out. Do the parents or the neighbor get charged?

Or do we accept that sometimes accidents happen and it's not always abuse or neglect every single accident? Because arguing that a parent is ALWAYS responsible when a child dies in their care implies that there can't really be any accidents. No one wants an accident. But if you took your eyes off your child for a few minutes and they drowned who else is at fault? Does someone always have to be at fault to satisfy our need for justice?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I guess my point is that as sad and horrific and tragic and heartbreaking for this family as this is, there is someone responsible. What does prosecuting him serve? Maybe THIS will be the one case with consequences that keeps another parent from making the same mistake. If his incarceration causes one person to take extra care that their baby isn't literally baked alive in the family car, even by accident, then those babies death and their father's time served as a result will not be in vain.

If Rodriguez is prosecuted for some level of crime in this case it would seem to me that this would be a wake up call to all parents of small children that you will be punished in some way by the State if your actions result in the death of your child.

If it becomes the norm that there's no consequences for failing to provide for your children no matter what, then it stands to reason that it may happen more often. JMO