NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #2

[gajonka]

MMQC I am wondering if your high school class gets together for reunions? My high school class is notoriously difficult to assemble – we managed a 30th reunion and it was wonderful to see some people I hadn’t seen, and so sad to acknowledge the ones who died. Among all the tragedies, no one just went missing from my youth. –Sylvia’s story makes me want to shake the trees!!! You have reignited the flame for Sylvia’s cause here and that tells me a lot about your indelible bond with her. –She is not forgotten. I really hope for a breakthrough in her case.

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Dearest Mega-Sleuths -

Tricia mentoned that she may have a brief block of time Sunday night -and she asked me offer a report on the following, and if I would like to join the call on behalf of our team to accomplish the following ( I sprayed my iced tea all over my screen when I read it!!!

But seriously, please help me with the folowing - I could even call another mega-sleuth - and then use conference to call in so there would be two of us ( I am thinking MMQC, or Dushi, or JMo, or ROsemadderlake:


1. Obvi, we would offer up a brief summary of Sylvia's case.
2. Certain particulars about the case - that we would like to introduce. This would be the next step, since we would briefly give an account fo what happened - and here - under #2, we would need to decide ( I am hoping everyone will pool ideas and we can activate the brain-trust brain-pool) where t go after the summary.
Ideas include: The incredible resource Web-Sleuths has represented, in giving us, especially MMQC and DeerhHunter, a public forum where all possible scenarios, views, and potential leads can/ have been explored.
We could highlight three specific critical points - in the way of - " well here we are now, the critical items on the table include: (this will be usueful in informing the listeners - a big, loyal following - her show -especially her personality is addictive. She also does a good job moderating all of the special "expert" guests she has on. SO here we would PRESENT 3-4 CRITICAL ITEMS SPECIFIC TO THE CASE/ AND OR - WHAT WE HAVE DONE SO FAR ( for example a letter to Det Lennon went unacknowledged).
Please. PLEASE be kind enough ( and I knw you guys are going to master this) to post your thoughts so we can come to a collective decision.

I will follow this with my own ideas, so you can see the structure and go form there - please point out strengthsd and weaknesses = and really, the best way we can go about maximizing the utility this can produce for Sylvias; case.
I f we can get on - we'll have the expsore - from there it will be important to demonstrate why the term Mega-Sleuth was invented (smile).
I am excited - I know you are too... I ased Tricia to gove us until Friday to cusotmize and edit... which would set-down, step by step the brief agenda/ use of the time.
For Sylvia... for justice.




love ya,

The G


p.s.: please excuse the typos' - composed in a rush.

p,s,sL WHew! wow - just noticing how sloppy and typo-filled this is@! Please forgive! Have mercy - very excited. I need to PM Dushi.

 

[rosemadderlake]

-I read this article a while ago about another missing woman on SI. I think it is well thought out, offers a reward for information, and appeals to those close to home who may remember something. I still read my hometown newspaper every week.

Staten Island woman's mystery disappearance
By Ken Paulsen/Staten Island Advance
http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/08/staten_island_womans_mystery_d.html


I think we have speculated as far as we can and are in need of some hard core leads and deeper level of knowledge which may not be available to this forum.

So many helpful thoughts and ideas have been covered by everyone on this thread. It is all there in the back pages.

Other than raise awareness which I feel we have accomplished, I wonder what direction it could go considering the constraints of TOS?

 

[GoingByMyGut]

But seriously, please help me with the folowing - I could even call another mega-sleuth - and then use conference to call in so there would be two of us ( I am thinking MMQC, or Dushi, or JMo, or ROsemadderlake:

Hi, Gajonka -- When the first broadcast was announced a couple of months back, I remember hoping ASWDeerHunter or MMQC would talk. While I have immense respect for my fellow websleuths, I think our VIs would have the greatest impact (as a second, I mean). JMO.

 

[rosemadderlake]

IIRC &#8211; I listened and waited for almost 2 hours to hear a very short piece about Sylvia&#8217;s case on the TC Radio show a couple of months ago. Wasn&#8217;t it stated on the program that the BF/F had the engagement ring? I thought, shouldn&#8217;t LE know this?

Where are her eyeglasses? Because, if those two items are not on her possession chances are a crime was committed. If she has her eyeglasses and the ring, she may be found alive. ...imo...

Sylvia&#8217;s case is in desperate need of a breakthrough, a follow through on the stated reward, and about ten other things I could list that have been mentioned already.

--So, to respectfully echo jmoose and bump it up: &#8220;talk is cheap, I want to see it&#8221;.

 

[alliemay]

I think I would more apt to listen to Tricia's show if she could somehow get the officer that is "handling" Sylvia's cold case. Everything else about her, personality etc. we already know from the VI's that have thankfully given us that info. What we need are the facts from LE. Not holding my breath.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I think I would more apt to listen to Tricia's show if she could somehow get the officer that is "handling" Sylvia's cold case. Everything else about her, personality etc. we already know from the VI's that have thankfully given us that info. What we need are the facts from LE. Not holding my breath.

I hear you (and you too, Rose). I was thinking of it another way. I think the VIs can make an emotional connection that might motivate others to come forward with info. I agree -- we would probably not learn anything new from the broadcast. And yes, Rose, it was minutes long -- I, too, was disappointed.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Staten Island woman's mystery disappearance
By Ken Paulsen/Staten Island Advance
http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/08/staten_island_womans_mystery_d.html

MMQQ and Odyssey (and any other SI'ers on the thread):

I notice in the article that Rose cites above that this woman, Anna Marie Scivetti, disappeared shortly after crossing the Outbridge onto the island from Jersey. However, a 2012 article on her I read a while back, which provides more detail on her case, says she and her BF were seen visiting a "South Shore bar" until the wee hours after that sighting. It's a little confusing.

So question 1: What is meant by the "South Shore"? Where is that relative to where 440 comes onto the island?

Some observations: When looking very up-close-and-personal at a Google Map of SI in satellite view, I see a swath of forested land north and south of the Outerbridge Crossing, where it first touches SI after leaving NJ. The piece north of 440 is much bigger and appears to be undeveloped except for a gun club and, a little farther down, what looks like a holding lot for Dept. of Transportation or bridge commission vehicles. It has a significant shoreline where it meets the waterway betw SI & NJ (Kill Van Kull?), and it seems to be very sandy throughout.

South of the bridge the woods are bordered more closely by developed areas, plus I think it quickly runs into the park MMQC mentioned some time ago -- Conference House Park.

Question 2: Are either of you familiar with these areas? I lived in an apartment complex near the Morris E. Goodkind bridge in New Brunswick, NJ, during my undergrad years (this bridge crosses the Raritan River), and they can be pretty desolate places. I ran my dogs there and loved it for the isolation, but also saw some shady characters.

Question 3: I am also remembering from a few pages back that this northerly section of woods is close to Biegenwald's mother's neighborhood. Have either of you ever heard of this section of terra firma being searched in connection with his investigation?

It seems like the property would be relatively untouched since the bridge was built (the land around it may be owned by the state for utility right-of-ways and in case they ever want to add lanes to 440). To my eye, that means if it was used to dispose of a body, there might actually be a chance of recovery today.

Grasping at straws? Perhaps. I recall ASWDH saying earlier about a golf course he would search if he were able. If there's a list anywhere, I'd like to add these patches to it.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I hear you (and you too, Rose). I was thinking of it another way. I think the VIs can make an emotional connection that might motivate others to come forward with info. I agree -- we would probably not learn anything new from the broadcast. And yes, Rose, it was minutes long -- I, too, was disappointed.

BBM: Yes, I was disappointed, too. --Though SL as the featured cold case that week attracted some very good thoughts by other members. That was very good.

I think it would be a bit like preaching to the choir to discuss this case here on a true crime radio broadcast. I would think targeting her connections, friends, Wagner, band and sorority members, those living on SI and asking for help in her disappearance may shake the trees.

The other thing is a tipster is not going to discuss info on TC radio program or on a forum - they will take it to LE. Right?

I don't think I could discuss this loss on a radio show. But I could discuss it with a good investigative reporter with an on/off the record clause... MOO

 

[rosemadderlake]

I think I would more apt to listen to Tricia's show if she could somehow get the officer that is "handling" Sylvia's cold case. Everything else about her, personality etc. we already know from the VI's that have thankfully given us that info. What we need are the facts from LE. Not holding my breath.

bbm: Interesting -has that happened in the past? - Has LE made themselves available to discuss cases on a radio program?

It would be interesting to know the prevailing challenges from Cold Case Squad perspective on cases like this, too.

 

[gajonka]

Hi, Gajonka -- When the first broadcast was announced a couple of months back, I remember hoping ASWDeerHunter or MMQC would talk. While I have immense respect for my fellow websleuths, I think our VIs would have the greatest impact (as a second, I mean). JMO.

Yes, you are correct. It sort of goes without saying.

 

[alliemay]

Quote: "I would think targeting her connections, friends, Wagner, band and sorority members, those living on SI and asking for help in her disappearance may shake the trees."

I have to say rose that this is exactly where I am. We know a bit about her life with her family and one friend, we know nothing about Wagner, almost like another life.

To answer the other question I don't know if LE has ever been on a crime talk show. I guess maybe getting one to do that would require the talk show host to be diligent in requesting one. It would be interesting to know if there ever was one before though.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

BBM: Yes, I was disappointed, too. --Though SL as the featured cold case that week attracted some very good thoughts by other members. That was very good.

I think it would be a bit like preaching to the choir to discuss this case here on a true crime radio broadcast. I would think targeting her connections, friends, Wagner, band and sorority members, those living on SI and asking for help in her disappearance may shake the trees.

The other thing is a tipster is not going to discuss info on TC radio program or on a forum - they will take it to LE. Right?

I don't think I could discuss this loss on a radio show. But I could discuss it with a good investigative reporter with an on/off the record clause... MOO

BBM1: Maybe -- not sure. Or it might compel someone to talk to someone who would eventually get it to LE. In any case, that's a good thing, right? I mean, I know we'd all like the info, too, but in an ideal world it would go first to the people who can do something about it (yeah, I did say ideal world ).

BBM2: That's a really good point, Rose. I didn't think of it -- maybe because of just rereading the Scivetti articles, where the sister is such a vocal advocate. I hear what you're saying about the difference between the two mediums, but I suspect having a sibling who disappears propels a person into a world of new things I can't imagine from where I sit. Just from knowing you here, I strongly suspect you'd rise to any occasion if you thought it would help find your sibling

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I think I would more apt to listen to Tricia's show if she could somehow get the officer that is "handling" Sylvia's cold case. Everything else about her, personality etc. we already know from the VI's that have thankfully given us that info. What we need are the facts from LE. Not holding my breath.

BBM: I am reading The Restless Sleep, by Stacy Horn, which we talked about on this thread some time ago. In one way, it's amazing, as it illustrates how cold cases do get solved. But in another way, it's extremely disheartening -- mostly because of the statistics.

For example, she talks about estimates of (1) the number of known homicides since 1900 (72,328) and (2) the quantity of those that are still unsolved (23,091), then discredits those numbers bc of nonstandard reporting practices. Then she says: "The true number [of unsolved homicides] over the past century is unknowable and surely a great deal higher than 23,091." [Earlier, one reason she gives for this is that theses numbers do NOT include people reported missing who might have been murdered -- only cases with bodies found.] Then she says, "However, since the NYPD has standardized their reporting practices over the years and has made their clearance rates less creative, the number of known, unsolved homicides since 1985, when the NYPD started a computer database, is closer to reality: 8,894." [BBM]

So 9,000 is a good estimate of the bank of cold cases LE could be working on today. Two other things make this even more disheartening: (1) detectives seem to pick and choose which cases they will work on (ones with leads are more attractive than those without), and (2) this book (published in 2005) describes the Cold Case Squad as now in decline as result of both LE priorities and budget cuts, so the number of cases they are successfully solving is going down.

If I doubted before whether LE is working on SL's case, I doubt it more now. No body, no leads ... Sure, if an officer from back in the day was interested in SL for some reason, s/he could pursue it, but the challenge in this case seems to me to be first proving homicide. Maybe that's obvious to everyone, but the cold hard facts do dim my hopes.

 

[rosemadderlake]

BBM1: Maybe -- not sure. Or it might compel someone to talk to someone who would eventually get it to LE. In any case, that's a good thing, right? I mean, I know we'd all like the info, too, but in an ideal world it would go first to the people who can do something about it (yeah, I did say ideal world ).

BBM2: That's a really good point, Rose. I didn't think of it -- maybe because of just rereading the Scivetti articles, where the sister is such a vocal advocate. I hear what you're saying about the difference between the two mediums, but I suspect having a sibling who disappears propels a person into a world of new things I can't imagine from where I sit. Just from knowing you here, I strongly suspect you'd rise to any occasion if you thought it would help find your sibling

bbm2: Thanks GBMG - Yes I would. I have strong feelings for Sylvia because I have lost a sibling in a very bizarre accident in which her husband was responsible for putting her in harm's way. But because she was an adult and under the influence, LE called it accidental. She was 34 years old.

So, even when you know the worst has happened it still doesn't bring them back. I understand well the feelings of how no matter what happened to Sylvia, I would hold her BF/F responsible to the highest court of the universe, for eternity, even if it played out exactly as he said.

bbm1: You are right, anything that compels someone to come forward and do the right thing is a good thing.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Quote: "I would think targeting her connections, friends, Wagner, band and sorority members, those living on SI and asking for help in her disappearance may shake the trees."

I have to say rose that this is exactly where I am. We know a bit about her life with her family and one friend, we know nothing about Wagner, almost like another life.

To answer the other question I don't know if LE has ever been on a crime talk show. I guess maybe getting one to do that would require the talk show host to be diligent in requesting one. It would be interesting to know if there ever was one before though.

bbm: Yes, "almost like another life" is what it feels like, skeet. I have wondered if her Wagner friends have connected with each other on Facebook - I am sure they have... We just don't know who they are. Same with the community on SI. It is not like no one knows, right? It does feel like there is a real DL aspect to her story, though - Don't know if we'll ever know or even if it is relevant but the silence is evident.

-I'll add international and military to the shake the trees list.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Do we know what types of statutes we are up against with re: to New York state? I will have a look- this could be somebody's golden ticket.

That's a good point, Gajonka. I don't know the credibility of the Lawyers.com website, but it looks like it might be 5 years. If you scroll down to the second half of the New York Statutes of Limitations page, to the criminal statutes, it says:
"Manslaughter, first degree, 5 years — N.Y. Crim. Proc. § 30.10(2)(b)"
"Manslaughter, second degree, 5 years — N.Y. Crim. Proc. § 30.10(2)(b)"
"Murder, first degree, No time limit — N.Y. Crim. Proc. § 30.10(2)(a)"
"Murder, second degree, No time limit — N.Y. Crim. Proc. § 30.10(2)(a)"

Having said that, I have no idea what the difference is between manslaughter and 2nd-degree murder. Does anyone else? Does manslaughter have to be accidental? Like vehicular homicide? No clue here ...

 

[GoingByMyGut]

bbm2: Thanks GBMG - Yes I would. I have strong feelings for Sylvia because I have lost a sibling in a very bizarre accident in which her husband was responsible for putting her in harm's way. But because she was an adult and under the influence, LE called it accidental. She was 34 years old.

So, even when you know the worst has happened it still doesn't bring them back. I understand well the feelings of how no matter what happened to Sylvia, I would hold her BF/F responsible to the highest court of the universe, for eternity, even if it played out exactly as he said.

bbm1: You are right, anything that compels someone to come forward and do the right thing is a good thing.

I'm sorry, Rose. I remember you talking about the after effects of this on the SM thread. 34 is WAY too young to die from any cause.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I'm sorry, Rose. I remember you talking about the after effects of this on the SM thread. 34 is WAY too young to die from any cause.

It is interesting, I felt compelled to join WS when SM slipped into the canal in our beloved Lambertville (my home in the 80's) on that magical but oh so cold night in January. My sister has been gone a long time but something just welled up in me when that happened. And here I am. --And I know the wisdom shared here on this forum comes from the fine tuned filter of mystery, tragedy, and loss that many have experienced.

Maybe someone will feel compelled as you say to come forward and help solve the tragic disappearance of this beautiful young woman, Sylvia Lwowski.

 

[rosemadderlake]

That's a good point, Gajonka. I don't know the credibility of the Lawyers.com website, but it looks like it might be 5 years. If you scroll down to the second half of the New York Statutes of Limitations page, to the criminal statutes, it says:
"Manslaughter, first degree, 5 years — N.Y. Crim. Proc. § 30.10(2)(b)"
"Manslaughter, second degree, 5 years — N.Y. Crim. Proc. § 30.10(2)(b)"
"Murder, first degree, No time limit — N.Y. Crim. Proc. § 30.10(2)(a)"
"Murder, second degree, No time limit — N.Y. Crim. Proc. § 30.10(2)(a)"

Having said that, I have no idea what the difference is between manslaughter and 2nd-degree murder. Does anyone else? Does manslaughter have to be accidental? Like vehicular homicide? No clue here ...

--Good question. Manslaughter has levels of voluntary and involuntary... So, if someone killed someone in the heat of the moment, and hid the body afterwards, and tried to cover it up, is it murder or manslaughter?

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Okay, got a little bit of a sense of this from th Wikipedia page Murder (United States law)

It's not black and white as on crime shows, but here are some general guidelines (the bulleted list is quoted directly from the page above):

• 
  First degree murder is any murder that is willful and premeditated. Felony murder is typically first degree.

• 
  Second degree murder is a murder that is not premeditated or planned in advance.

• 
  Voluntary manslaughter (often referred to as third degree murder) sometimes called a "Heat of Passion" murder, is any intentional killing that involved no prior intent to kill, and which was committed under such circumstances that would "cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed." Both this and second degree murder are committed on the spot, but the two differ in the magnitude of the circumstances surrounding the crime. For example, a bar fight that results in death would ordinarily constitute second degree murder. If that same bar fight stemmed from a discovery of infidelity, however, it may be mitigated to voluntary manslaughter. [BBM]

• 
  Involuntary manslaughter stems from a lack of intention to cause death but involving an intentional, or negligent, act leading to death. A drunk driving-related death is typically involuntary manslaughter. Note that the "unintentional" element here refers to the lack of intent to bring about the death. All three crimes above feature an intent to kill, whereas involuntary manslaughter is "unintentional," because the killer did not intend for a death to result from their intentional actions. If there is a presence of intention it relates only to the intent to cause a violent act which brings about the death, but not an intention to bring about the death itself.

Some details about NY law help flesh it out a bit:

"In New York, first-degree murder involves 'special circumstances,' such as the murder of a police officer or witness to a crime, multiple murders, or murders involving torture. Under this system, second degree murder is any other premeditated murder. The New York statutes also recognize 'murder for hire' as first degree murder."​

I am not sure, but from what I read it seems that the difference between 2nd degree murder and manslaughter is that the former -- while not requiring premeditation (planning or lying in wait, for example) -- does require "intent." About this, the page says: "Generally, an intention to cause great bodily harm is considered indistinguishable from an intention to kill, as is an act so inherently dangerous that any reasonable person would realize the likelihood of fatality." For example, you can't use a deadly weapon on a person and claim you didn't "intend" to hurt them. Voluntary manslaughter, on the other hand, seems to suggest a "reasonable" lack of control over your actions (while for second degree murder you are still in control?). It seems very murky to me! I have a feeling this is what lawyers are paid for, folks. :dunno:

The upshot: If SL was murdered, I think the applicable statute of limitations -- 5 years or forever -- depends on the circumstances that led to her death. At least, that's my takeaway.