NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #4

[epiphany]

Hi, GoingByMyGut! Happy Spring and have we made any progress bringing SL's case forward?

Baby steps, but Glass Half Full: Awareness.

 

[epiphany]

For me it brought up the issues that still dog women, no matter how high up the ladder they go: adequate training in financial management, and eating to be healthy, not to please men. She was a great designer, but the photos of her scare me. Too too thin. JMO

Don't forget: described by those in the business and who knew her as a perfectionist.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Don't forget: described by those in the business as a perfectionist.

Yes, all signs of being too hard on herself, right? "Not good enough" unless perfect, the best, the prettiest, the thinnest. And all of the damage under the surface, debts exceeding assets -- symptomatic of the whole person, IMO. Very sad.

 

[epiphany]

And no one saw, noted, her (L'W's) underlying depression?

We'll see about that...

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Hi, GoingByMyGut! Happy Spring and have we made any progress bringing SL's case forward?

Baby steps, but Glass Half Full: Awareness.

Good question. I think yes -- not the progress any of us hoped, but progress. Not so much in terms of solving her case, perhaps, yet here she is almost 39 years later, remembered. We only see her through a little crack in the glass, so we may not really "know" her, but it's not for lack of hours spent, that's for sure

 

[GoingByMyGut]

And no one saw her underlying depression?

We'll see about that...

Whose? You could be talking about SL or L'Wren with that one. I guess that's your point. Is it stigma though? Or are we naturally reluctant to see what's unpleasant? To believe it can't touch us or those close to us?

 

[epiphany]

Whose? You could be talking about SL or L'Wren with that one. I guess that's your point. Is it stigma though? Or are we naturally reluctant to see what's unpleasant? To believe it can't touch us or those close to us?

BBM

I think it's often stigma when it's those close to us, or when it is those with whom we can identify with for whatever reason. Yeah, we rail against suicide or at least admitting that it is a possibility: Sylvia's generation, Me/Us.

In a word, Yes. Stigma of depression, mental illness and suicide is still a problem. More work/education needed in this area. MOO

 

[epiphany]

Whose? You could be talking about SL or L'Wren with that one. I guess that's your point. Is it stigma though? Or are we naturally reluctant to see what's unpleasant? To believe it can't touch us or those close to us?

BBM

Thinking of my sibs' childhood friend. All grew up with him (me, too). I saw him not more than a few weeks before his disappearance.

NOT A ONE of the NYC/childhood group would admit to noticing anything amiss with him.

I went nuts!?!?! You kidding me?

They held steadfast. To this day: will not discuss!

Suicide. Jumped in Narrows. Turned up few months later. Great guy, BTW.

Even "educated" crew: uncomfortable>depression, mental illness, etc.

 

[epiphany]

And the above ^^ NYC, only about 10 or so years ago!

 

[GoingByMyGut]

BBM

Thinking of my sibs' childhood friend. All grew up with him (me, too). I saw him not more than a few weeks before his disappearance.

NOT A ONE of the NYC/childhood group would admit to noticing anything amiss with him.

I went nuts!?!?! You kidding me?

They held steadfast. To this day: will not discuss!

Suicide. Jumped in Narrows. Turned up few months later. Great guy, BTW.

Even "educated" crew: uncomfortable>depression, mental illness, etc.

So sad. Poor guy. I always wonder how parents cope. But yes. I understand. I think that's something we have in common here on WS. It may actually be what brings us here. A willingness to look the dark side in the eye. To speak to it when no one else will. I've been breaking those walls down in my family all my life. You learn a lot about people when you do. One time, in high school, sitting at the dinner table with my parents, I asked my father, "So, do you consider yourself an alcoholic?" I meant, the quantity spoke for itself, but I really wanted to know what he thought. He could not get a word in edgewise: My mother went on and on about how in control he was, he was not an alcoholic, an alcoholic is x, y, z, and he is a, b, c. Somewhere in there, my dad mouthed "yes."

 

[epiphany]

So sad. Poor guy. I always wonder how parents cope. But yes. I understand. I think that's something we have in common here on WS. It may actually be what brings us here. A willingness to look the dark side in the eye. To speak to it when no one else will. I've been breaking those walls down in my family all my life. You learn a lot about people when you do. One time, in high school, sitting at the dinner table with my parents, I asked my father, "So, do you consider yourself an alcoholic?" I meant, the quantity spoke for itself, but I really wanted to know what he thought. He could not get a word in edgewise: My mother went on and on about how in control he was, he was not an alcoholic, an alcoholic is x, y, z, and he is a, b, c. Somewhere in there, my dad mouthed "yes."

Alcoholism: my generation? Many still in denial or refuse to label "alcoholic" though we eventually "understood" it was (whether we admitted it to others or not).

Can you imagine taking one's own life, depression, on the ladder of family problems? It's still unacceptable to many.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Alcoholism: my generation? Many still in denial or refuse to label "alcoholic" though we eventually "understood" it was (whether we admitted it to others or not).

Can you imagine taking one's own life, depression, on the ladder of family problems?

Do you mean this literally? I mentioned in an earlier post that I have been clinically depressed. On some level, it is a family problem, but it looks different in each person. Even with that history, and a probable suicide in the family (father's father), I really cannot make my imagination go there. It feels to me like some of us are hard-wired not to go there, and that at least some of those who manage to kill themselves are missing a self-preservation impulse. Is that what you meant? I read somewhere that suicide by women is said to be significantly underreported due to "suicide by car." IOW, accidents that were not accidental.

We are so OT ... but I suppose still on the subject of whether suicide was possible for SL. It's interesting to me that more of us are able to see that now than was possible even six months ago.

 

[epiphany]

I wish SL did not go missing in SI in 1975. And it's not as if she ventured out often into other boroughs. She doesn't appear to have done so.

SI circa 1975 is a problem for me. Suicide is and has always been a possibility, IMO.

 

[Jmoose]

I wish SL did not go missing in SI in 1975. And it's not as if she ventured out often into other boroughs. She doesn't appear to have done so.

SI circa 1975 is a problem for me. Suicide is and has always been a possibility, IMO.

Epiphany-what do you mean here? (I can be thick-I'm sorry)

 

[epiphany]

There appeared to me to be an earlier denial on previous threads that Father's behavior at pool party was relevant to SL's disappearance, to her possible depression, to her possible problems with BF/F. IMOO, a denial of alcoholism or a lessening of the impact alcoholism may have had upon the family members, to SL's depression, was evident. That is my opinion only.

IMO, that was a common stance of those from my generation (Drinking heavily was not a big deal.). We now know it can be. Hell, it is. It impacts the family members. Sorry...my Father had mistaken my engagement ring for a beer tab>that's not gonna be swept over.

IF there may have been issues re alcoholism, who knows what prohibitions might have existed towards discussion of mental illness, depression or suicide.

 

[epiphany]

Epiphany-what do you mean here? (I can be thick-I'm sorry)

The environment, the geography of SI circa 1975. Less built up, developed, than other boroughs. She could be there, and never found.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

There appeared to me to be an earlier denial on previous threads that Father's behavior at pool party was relevant to SL's disappearance, to her possible depression, to her possible problems with BF/F. IMOO, a denial of alcoholism or a lessening of the impact alcoholism may have had upon the family members, to SL's depression, was evident. That is my opinion only.

IMO, that was a common stance of those from my generation (Drinking heavily was not a big deal.). We now know it can be. Hell, it is. It impacts the family members. Sorry...my Father had mistaken my engagement ring for a beer tab>that's not gonna be swept over.

IF there may have been issues re alcoholism, who knows what prohibitions might have existed towards discussion of mental illness, depression or suicide.

BBM2. I thought that might be what you meant re the "ladder." True, but also, how often is alcoholism/addiction not different than depression/mental illness but a symptom of it ... evidence of self-medicating, for example, esp. in an era of few pharmaceutical options. Or evidence that someone is trying to push something else down. IOW, I don't see them on different steps of the ladder, I see them on the same step. Part and parcel.

BBM1. And yet, EL acknowledged "depression" on the PR. From the little we see of her, I think she was quiet, but I think her eyes were open.

You've got me up past my bedtime, Epiph. Will respond to next round in the morning. Night all.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I loved Mick Jagger's music coming up and he is one of the few celebrities/rock stars I indulge in following re "celebrity" news.

The suicide of his partner/lover brings to the forefront, once again, the STIGMA that continues to be attached to suicide, depression, mental illness, etc. that is STILL prevalent, IMO, in "our" generation.

"Emotional Rescue

Dance

Hey, what am I doing standing here on the corner of
West 8th Street and the 6th Avenue and...
Ah, skip it.
Nothing. Keith! Watcha, watcha doing? [whistle]
Oh, I think the time has come to get out, get out
Get up, get out, get into something new
Get up, get out, into something new
Ooh! And it's got me moving (Got me moving honey!)"


IMO: L'wren's is a very Shakespearean suicide... It's not the first time she thought about it. And, it was very well orchestrated. ...Planned for some time... IMO

 

[Odyssey]

Hi!

Just popping in to say hi. I read all the unread posts in thread 3, and thought I was caught up until I went to post.. then I realized I still have this whole thread to read!

I'll try to get caught up tomorrow.

I can't remember if this had ever been mentioned before, but does the name Donovan ring a bell to anyone?

I came across this article (another Staten Island case) and found this interesting:

BBM:

"There's not a day goes by that I don't think of my sister. It has affected generations of my family, from my mother to my children. How could it not?" says Angel DeRuvo, Ms. Scivetti's sister, whose persistence over the past 14 years has spurred investigators to keep plugging.

Donovan says Ms. DeRuvo approached him when he first ran for the district attorney seat in 2003, and he has kept the case an active investigation ever since. "We're poring over everything now, and we have not given up hope," he says.

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/09/new_clues_in_haunting_mystery.html

There is contact information for Donovan in the article. I apologize if this has been brought up before, it's hard for me to keep track of it all.

I'll try to get caught up on this thread tomorrow... so glad to see you all still here plugging away!

 

[Jmoose]

Hi!

Just popping in to say hi. I read all the unread posts in thread 3, and thought I was caught up until I went to post.. then I realized I still have this whole thread to read!

I'll try to get caught up tomorrow.

I can't remember if this had ever been mentioned before, but does the name Donovan ring a bell to anyone?

I came across this article (another Staten Island case) and found this interesting:

BBM:

"There's not a day goes by that I don't think of my sister. It has affected generations of my family, from my mother to my children. How could it not?" says Angel DeRuvo, Ms. Scivetti's sister, whose persistence over the past 14 years has spurred investigators to keep plugging.

Donovan says Ms. DeRuvo approached him when he first ran for the district attorney seat in 2003, and he has kept the case an active investigation ever since. "We're poring over everything now, and we have not given up hope," he says.

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/09/new_clues_in_haunting_mystery.html

There is contact information for Donovan in the article. I apologize if this has been brought up before, it's hard for me to keep track of it all.

I'll try to get caught up on this thread tomorrow... so glad to see you all still here plugging away!

I'm not aware of relevance of anyone named Donovan in this case. Is there any reason to think there might be?