NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #4

[epiphany]

I still say she's a little overdressed for only a movie circa 1975 in SI...but to each their own.

 

[alliemay]

https://familysearch.org/search/rec...er_givenname:joseph~ +father_surname:lwowski~

Was Sylvia born on April 28th? Guess this site has the dates of residence all wrong.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I still say she's a little overdressed for only a movie circa 1975 in SI...but to each their own.

Bbm: A nicely dressed young woman with long flowing blond hair, may have stood out more, been remembered by someone running from a car in traffic, stop sign, light...

 

[epiphany]

What about the 24 hour place MMQC said she went to when she had a fight with her own parents after Sylvia's disappearance?

Could Sylvia have gone there? Could she have been waiting at that location for a pickup from someone? Or could she have stumbled upon a nefarious person there?

Where was the location of that 24 hour place?

 

[Jmoose]

I still say she's a little overdressed for only a movie circa 1975 in SI...but to each their own.

I think that wearing a skirt to go to a movie would have been overdressing, also. We all seem to be of a similar age here, and likely to have gone out to the movies at that time-would any of us have worn a skirt on a movie date?

 

[alliemay]

I wasn't allowed to go to the movies when I lived at home, but don't think I would have chosen a skirt. But then again, with Sylvia I'm not picturing a flowing skirt, just something basic, and matching what ever else she was wearing. I think I remember reading a post from MMQC where she talked about how everything matched. I think she prided herself on her looks.

 

[Jmoose]

I've always pictured a light green A-line skirt and neat white cardigan sweater-not the typical "hippie" type skirt. What style of shoe would she have worn? Would it be a wedge-type sandal, a dress flat, or a loafer type shoe?

 

[alliemay]

I've pictured a wedge type shoe, unless it made her taller than her boyfriend then I picture you with something with less heel on it.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

https://familysearch.org/search/rec...er_givenname:joseph~ +father_surname:lwowski~

Was Sylvia born on April 28th? Guess this site has the dates of residence all wrong.

Skeet, this isn't coming up for me. A wheel on screen turns and turns but never gets anywhere. What should I be seeing? Yes, April 28, 1953. Residence?

 

[Jmoose]

Skeet, this isn't coming up for me. A wheel on screen turns and turns but never gets anywhere. What should I be seeing? Yes, April 28, 1953. Residence?

Maybe Skeet means that it shows that Sylvia's residence from 1/1/1994-1/1/2004 was Staten Island? Sometimes these sites do that, even when it isn't accurate, especially when someone's died but there is no reference in the Social Security Death Index-just shows the last known address from 1975.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Maybe Skeet means that it shows that Sylvia's residence from 1/1/1994-1/1/2004 was Staten Island? Sometimes these sites do that, even when it isn't accurate, especially when someone's died but there is no reference in the Social Security Death Index-just shows the last known address from 1975.

Oh, I bet you're right. Ancestry does that too. They aren't basing that on how long SL lived there. I think it comes from real estate/deed transfers. IOW, 2004 (or whatever) would be the date the house was sold/changed hands. But 1994? Is that just a for instance? Or am I missing something? I would think the first date would be much earlier -- some time after 1962, when the family moved from Germany, initially to Ft. Wadsworth, then to Goodall Street (IOW, when they bought the home)?

 

[alliemay]

Yes the dates of residence, I found them confusing.

 

[alliemay]

What about the 24 hour place MMQC said she went to when she had a fight with her own parents after Sylvia's disappearance?

Could Sylvia have gone there? Could she have been waiting at that location for a pickup from someone? Or could she have stumbled upon a nefarious person there?

Where was the location of that 24 hour place?

Just from some FB comments, I think there were a couple of places that were open all night.

 

[rosemadderlake]

What size shoe (about) did she wear?

Who knows if and when that might be useful.

MMQC?

UID Namus: "Shoe; clog style, right, womans: measuring: 11" in length (top) and 10.5" (bottom) by 3.5" in broadest width (bottom) by 4.5" (top); brown leathery belt."
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/11774

The bottom of my clog measures 11 inches. General size range -Euro size 37-38, US 7-8.

My guesstimate is the UID shoe size is between 6-7 US. Clogs tended to be roomier.

Shoe size - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Jmoose]

UID Namus: "Shoe; clog style, right, womans: measuring: 11" in length (top) and 10.5" (bottom) by 3.5" in broadest width (bottom) by 4.5" (top); brown leathery belt."
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/11774

The bottom of my clog measures 11 inches. General size range -Euro size 37-38, US 7-8.

My guesstimate is the UID shoe size is between 6-7 US. Clogs tended to be roomier.

Shoe size - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's about the size I imagine Sylvia's shoe size would be (6-7)

 

[GoingByMyGut]

As to whether she was over-dressed or not: Some counter-thoughts.

Is it possible she was road-testing an outfit she bought that day? SL's movie-date was a week after Labor Day. For a lot of people at that time (maybe even now, but less so), the "dress code" changed with Labor Day. Did that put her in a fall/back-to-school fashion frame of mind? To me, that's what a "preppie"/collegiate outfit of classic skirt and sweater with loafers of some kind speaks to.

I was not a girly-girl when I was her age and younger, but I do remember that people other than me -- in my age group and older -- dressed up more than I dressed down ... even at the movies. I actually used to wonder why

In my later 20s, though, sometimes I really liked wearing dresses, skirts ... reading Glamour or Cosmo could put me in that frame of mind (it generally lasted no more than a day).

I think of SL as being part of a transitional generation between the 1950s and 60s. She would only be three years older than me, but I had cousins that age who seemed very different than me, in terms of what they considered "appropriate dress." They often wore skirts as part of their daily apparel, without considering it "dressing up."

This detail doesn't really speak to me one way or the other -- except that a certain level of care for your appearance doesn't say "suicide" to me. And if I planned to board a long bus to nowhere, I would have chosen something more comfortable, like jeans.

 

[rosemadderlake]

– I remember 70’s fashion as longer more flowing skirts (below the knee or midi). -Even the miniskirts and shorts were looser. (Hippie skirts tended to be maxi-skirts.) -High-waist-stove pipe pants & halter tops. -Beautiful sundresses. –Scarves, a big accessory. Clogs were a staple shoe, as were penny loafers, and sneakers (Keds and Converse). –Frey boots-still made in the USA. -Platforms, espadrilles, and good flat leather sandals, and Dr. Scholls.

I remember girls wearing boy’s jeans in the late 60’s, early 70’s; I got my Levis at the Army Navy store. –Back then, no mall with a zillion brands of jeans. In the mid-70’s, this little boutique in my hometown imported jeans from Italy that fit like a glove –I saved my money and bought two pairs. They were quite fabulous.

Even at the conservative end, I think the 70’s was a feminine era for women. I pictured Sylvia in a below the knee or midi skirt, nice material, with some room and flow, coordinating top and the white sweater. -Maybe not sandals that evening as it was rainy (light rain IIRC) that day. I wonder what other jewelry; earrings, necklace, bracelet, barrette for her hair she may have worn that night. (Did EL write down any more specifics perhaps for the PI).

So, while I do think Sylvia was dressed up for her Saturday night date – maybe the plans were unknown - movie and/or dinner and she dressed for both... I can’t recall if it was known that she was going to the movies before she was picked up? ETA: And if it was known any idea which movie?

Here’s a link to some 70’s style images.

1970's vintage fashion
https://www.google.com/search?q=197...eKobJsQTA4IDYAQ&ved=0CDUQ7Ak&biw=1920&bih=908

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I think all that is true about 70s fashion. And I remember it fondly -- esp. my Frye boots. I shopped for jeans in an incense-burning "head shop" at the mall where I bought the "Landlubber" brand: They rode very low on the hips, were snug through the thigh, and had big bell bottoms, and you wore them with a WIDE leather belt. Oh boy! These long necklaces made of brown cocoa seeds were popular, as were these small brass bells worn on leather laces around the neck. And OMG, ponchos.

But I also remember that a more conservative way of dressing persisted through all that. When I glanced through some stuff on the web, I saw the a-line as a classic, a staple, of the time, paired with a blouse, sweater, or twin set.

I am thinking of what MMQC said more than one time, that SL did not embrace hippie culture. I think particularly, if SL did NOT plan to end "life as she knew it" that night, she might have been shopping for interview/work clothes. This style was a kind of all-around "trend-neutral" look that would have been popular in the workplace, lab, and classroom. I am seeing the skirt the way JMoose described: a-line, knee-length, and simple. JMO though -- we can only guess.

ETA: found these for fun

 

[rosemadderlake]

Looking at her pictures, she strikes me as having a flair for fashion--a very stylish girl.

Thinking if dinner was in the plans, she may have have been more on the dressy side.

It would be great if we had few more details...

 

[epiphany]

You may have nailed it: a preppy style of dress...the white sweater, matching brown shoes/handbag, may have been loafer style with heel.

Also, the reminders that SL did not embrace the "hippie" culture, liked her accessories to match, etc.

Perhaps, not indicative of a restaurant date after all!

As some mentioned, yes, I do remember some wore that style...definitely.