SOLVED NY - Tala Farea, 16, Rotana Farea, 22, Hudson River, 24 Oct 2018- COD released: suicide/drowning

  • #481
I remember when the Shafia sisters were killed that we assumed they must have been drugged. There was just no other way to explain how they ended up in the water. But, although autopsy reports showed that they were drown, there was no evidence of any kind of sedative.

It was believed that they were drown somewhere else prior to being put into the car and pushed into the canal, possibly at a hotel where they stopped that evening. Did someone hold their heads under water in the toilet? That might have explained the bruising on the back of their heads.

I wonder if the Farea sisters could also have been drown somewhere else and then dumped in the river. I realise that LE said they were alive when they went into the river, but that doesn't rule out the possibility that they were pre-drown, so to speak.

Inside the Shafia killings that shocked a nation
That is a possibility. It does imply that more than one person is responsible as it would be very difficult, I assume, to carry two dead bodies.

I'm still thinking they were taped onsite while alive. jmo.
 
  • #482
delete duplicate
 
  • #483
If they were murdered in a cultural punishment, that would be extremely odd. There is the strong idea in cultural islamic punishment murders that the condemned should be shown "mercy" and allowed to speak the shahaddah, pray, and/ or recite the koran as they experience their final moments.

This is because of the concept of repentance, and is seen as being especially merciful to the condemned. If the words of the shahaddah and prayer are on their lips as their final words/ thoughts, it is believed Allah will be merciful and grant forgiveness.

Taping them bound together facing one another is another way, IMO, that they were made to "face" what they had done together, their rebellious behavior, and have a chance to embrace and pray, comfort one another in their deaths, and express repentance, as they die. A way for them to save their souls.

This may seem very strange to some, but to me, the method of their deaths as ritual cultural murders indicates someone was trying to make their murders "easy" for them to bear. Perhaps signalling to the family that it was necessary to punish the girls with death, but that the murderers made it as merciful and easy as possible, and for them to be able to repent at the end and save their souls.

I am not surprised their mouths were not taped shut, or their arms restrained. Islamic ritual murder is frequently justified in that culture as necessary, but merciful and honorable. They are being helped from committing further sin, rebellion, dishonor. Essentially, "cleansed" by death.

Additionally, death punishment water drownings are viewed as a “soft” and easy form of death, and "merciful". And "cleaner." As in, showing a perverse kind of mercy to poor wayward young females by drowning them, which is less violent than other more violent methods of murder/ execution, such as stabbing, etc.

It may seem very hard to understand, for westerners. Most western perceptions would be that that binding them facing together is additionally unspeakably cruel and sadistic, revenge-like. Murder was bad enough, but binding them facing each other ups the sadism factor.

Toxicology results will take about 6 weeks, but I'd be really surprised if they test positive for anything. That would, IMO, be highly unusual, whether they were murdered, or committed a bizarre suicide.

I know some think this is a double suicide, but I just don't see one single thing that persuades me that this could be suicide. IMO, this has all the hallmarks of a ritual cultural murder.

I couldn't agree more.
 
  • #484
‘I don’t know where my daughters are’: Odd encounter deepens mystery surrounding disappearance and deaths of Saudi sisters - The Washington Post

“I don’t know where my daughters are,” the woman told Johnson. “I haven’t seen them in a long time.”

Johnson said the mother told him that she didn’t know why Rotana Farea, 22, and Tala Farea, 16, had disappeared or where they were, and that she hadn’t communicated with them recently. The distraught mother asked Johnson what to do.

Didn’t she also say she was always in contact with them, right up to the week before their bodies were discovered??

He said the sisters’ father lived in Saudi Arabia and may have worked for the government there. He would visit periodically.

He said that the family moved out over the summer and that he had seen no obvious problems in the household.

I will take it with a grain of salt because the neighbor doesn’t seem to know them all that well, but it would be interesting if the dad does work for the govt in SA.
 
  • #485
Maybe they were facing each other to hold each other while they went into the water, to comfort each other in their death?
 
  • #486
Maybe they were facing each other to hold each other while they went into the water, to comfort each other in their death?
Or, because it was easier to push them into the water with one push instead of two?

It seems like every detail can fit either suicide or murder.

Jmo
 
  • #487
Detectives have conducted various interviews in Fairfax, Virginia, where Tala and Rotana Farea had previously been living with family since 2015. Chief of Detectives Dermot Shea of the New York City Police Department said those interviews are "unraveling" what was going on in the sisters' lives before their mysterious deaths.

Through electronic evidence, including credit cards and ATM withdrawals, the NYPD was able to establish that the sisters had traveled from Fairfax to Washington D.C. to Philadelphia and finally to New York City, where they arrived on Sept. 1.

Police tracking activity of Saudi sisters in NYC before they were found dead in river

Then later in the article it says it’s unclear when the girls arrived in NY. Smh. I’ve never been so frustrated with reporting of a case in my life.
 
  • #488
Taping their shoes or sandals to their feet makes me think they did not want their shoes to be found on the shoreline. I don't think they jumped from the bridge.
 
  • #489
That is a possibility. It does imply that more than one person is responsible as it would be very difficult, I assume, to carry two dead bodies.

I'm still thinking they were taped onsite while alive. jmo.

It would be a lot easier to tape two people together if they were not resisting. The sisters believed that their lives were in danger, so I think that they would be cautious about anything that seemed odd.
 
  • #490
It would be a lot easier to tape two people together if they were not resisting. The sisters believed that their lives were in danger, so I think that they would be cautious about anything that seemed odd.
Why did they believe their lives were in danger? Did I miss an article about that?

Clue me in!

Jmo
 
  • #491
Their arms weren’t tied either so they could have tried to swim/splash. FOr all we know they could have done so, but if they were murdered, it seems weird their arms/hands and mouths weren’t duct taped.

Do we have official or family statements saying they were good swimmers?

From my experience as a surf life saver, there's a lot of danger when attempting to rescue someone panicked and struggling to stay afloat.

The instinctive drowning response :
In emergency situations in which lifeguards or other trained personnel are not present, it is advisable to wait for the victim to stop moving or sink before approaching, rescuing, or resuscitating. While the instinctive reaction to drowning is taking place, the victim will latch onto any nearby solid objects in attempts to get air, which can result in the drowning of a would-be rescuer as well as (or instead of) the original victim.

So with that knowledge, imagine now two girls strapped together with only arms to keep them afloat. If they were indeed conscious, one or both could panic and start using the other to try and leverage her mouth to the surface, dragging the other down and potentially drowning her first.
 
  • #492
Please share links for this "vast history of similar" duct tape-drowning-of-sisters-from-Saudi deaths.
My sense is that death by drowning is common but being wrapped in duct tape and then drowned is not so common. I was reading an article today on Al Jazerra that said that in KSA deaths of female children and adults are not consistently reported. To me this would mean that any deaths wouldn't be investigated by LE or even the religious police. Sobering thought about this about this issue from the standpoint of a family member or friend of a victim. One day a loved one is there and alive and then they are simply gone.
 
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  • #493
Bodies of two Saudi sisters found bound together beside New York river

So interesting that the father that was so close to his 2 daughters, by family quotes, wasn't able to travel to the U.S. upon their deaths until 4 days after they were found dead in the Hudson. He wasn't in a big hurry to get to New York, IMO.
Do you know if he would have had to get approval from the KSA govt to travel, req'd a US visa or could he have just driven to the airport with no restrictions to come to the US?
 
  • #494
I thought the GWB has been ruled out - no video of them going off the bridge??

jmo
It has been ruled out by NYPD in the last mini press conference. Bodies hadn't been in the water long and other than some impact from the rocks where they were found the bodies were in good shape.
 
  • #495
  • #496
In December, they went missing. When Virginia police found them, the women opted to live in a shelter rather than return home.
Mystery Of Sisters Found Dead And Duct Taped Together In Hudson River Deepens
I see. It seems logical to assume they feared they were in danger because they opted to live in a shelter rather than return home. I agree that seems like a logical assumption, but it is an assumption not a fact. (Maybe they just didn't want to live with their family anymore, but were not in fear of their lives either.)

But they certainly were serious about not wanting to return home. Most people would not chose to live in a shelter if it could be avoided.

jmo
 
  • #497

From the same article: "A photo from the scene shows silvery duct tape tangled up with the girls legs and wrapped around their shoes."

Has anyone seen this photo? I understand not posting it or linking it here, I'm just wondering if it was a photo floating around the internet, or would Washington Post had exclusive access to see it? At least we have an idea of how the duct tape was on them.

Do we have official or family statements saying they were good swimmers?
Apparently they were afraid of water

Family of Saudi sisters found dead in New York denies suicide reports
"ABC News and other news outlets reported that the working theory of investigators is that the sisters wanted to take their own lives and so taped themselves together and jumped into the water. The family denies this suggestion, saying that the girls were happy, had no problems at home and were afraid of water."
 
  • #498
So we know they got to NYC on sept 1 and its not believed that they ever left once they got there. Where did they stay for almost two months? Who were they with?
 
  • #499
Now that they released what look like passport or government issued document photos of the two sisters, does anyone find it strange the sketches looked nothing like them? And how could they have been identified by their mother (I believe they've said she did) if the sketches looked so different?
 
  • #500
Family of Saudi sisters found dead in New York denies suicide reports
"ABC News and other news outlets reported that the working theory of investigators is that the sisters wanted to take their own lives and so taped themselves together and jumped into the water. The family denies this suggestion, saying that the girls were happy, had no problems at home and were afraid of water."




Wait a minute, hold up.....if they didn't have a problem at home, why did they choose to live in a shelter, as opposed to at home?

And didn't Mom say she hadn't spoken to them in months? Or am I imaging that?
 

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