NY - Transgender woman found wrapped in logging chain, claims she was sex slave

[inthedark14]

nao, honey, what you experienced was violence, horrible violence and maybe worse.

That's not s&m. S&M happens between consenting adults. Unless you told these people it was ok to hurt you, it wasn't s&m. The whole bdsm thing hinges on the submissive partner being willing. Willing is the operative word here.

If you are not willing, it is violence, rape, kidnapping...not matter what brought you there.

I'm not going to be able to explain this well. Where is Sonya when you need her?

 

[SeriouslySearching]

see what I mean? Just as with any intimate partner crime, this one will be a tough case to prove. Did she post them? Did they? That is where it comes down to she said they said and what the jury believes.

Add to this the S&M angle and the transgendered victim and I think this will be tough to present to a jury for the prosecutor.

This opinion is not based in which of the parties I believe or my opinion of alternative sexual relationships and exploration or transgenders or anything of the sort. This is my opinion because I don't think the general jury pool is ready to judge this case on the evidence without personal judgments on the extraordinary parts of this case to decide the case impartially.

No comment as to its rightness or wrongness. Simply a pragmatic view of the world we inhabit right now.

As with any case, the evidence will dictate what can or cannot be prosecuted. They also have the two children as eye witnesses to the situation. The case will stand on those merits alone, imo.

When they do complete computer forensics on all of their electronics gathered in the warrants, they could be able to prove one party or another also accessed their own sites with passwords not available to the victim or find other avenues to distinguish the person on the keyboard at that specific time.

The prosecution will certainly have to educate the jury in this case, but I believe it won't be a difficult case to prove actually. S & M is a fantasy/fetish sexual game and it is characterized by violence in a safe mode. It isn't rocket science and I believe it can be explained adequately to a jury of the difference between beaten, held, and severely abused or having been willingly subjected to role play and sexual perversion. The transgender issue will take a backseat to the charges of Kidnapping and Sex Trafficking so explaining it won't be a big deal, imo.

This case will be watched carefully by a lot of people especially since the perps made the statements of no wrongdoing. smh

 

[nao]

just saying if she was just a woman, i know peoples in alterative life styles, i just know too many people that are unwittingly in s&m-- whats the difference between controlling and s&m

 

[Mrs G Norris]

just saying if she was just a woman, i know peoples in alterative life styles, i just know too many people that are unwittingly in s&m-- whats the difference between controlling and s&m

If that's the case they are not in S&M.

 

[nao]

it is the s&m which muddies the life, style for me. if only every scared person had a a place to run to, and call it kiddnaping

 

[rosesfromangels]

just saying if she was just a woman, i know peoples in alterative life styles, i just know too many people that are unwittingly in s&m-- whats the difference between controlling and s&m

Your question is a very interesting one, and illustrates the complexity of these dynamics. Where does "participant" stop, and "victim" starts?
I think your question of what is the difference between "control" and S&M is very, very insightful. Probably not much difference.

I do believe that many victims appear to be participants (e.g. "why do they stay?"), but it is more likely that they are paralyzed/terrorized with fear, or have gone in to a dissociative mental state.

I am by no means a professional in these matters, just all opinion.
I truly pray that the individual in question finds God's healing love, vs. whatever they were seeking that led them to this horrible situation.

 

[tlcya]

blurred lines.

I do understand your point, nao. You are raising interesting issue. The DV relationship with the woman who becomes broken down could be seen by some as being consensual by allowing it to go on and accepting this is the relationship.

Whereas those who enter into S&M responsibly do so with very strict predetermined boundaries. MOO.

What if the minors in the house say that this victim seemed all on board with the unusual living arrangements? What if all the people who interacted with her say she seemed all on board and a willing participant?

Again this is just moo. I do believe she wanted this arrangement to end. I do beleive they actively prevented that by holding her against her will. I just feel this case has a lot of unusual angle that as is said upthread, a jury will need to be educated on to really comprehend what they are deliberating.

 

[pukasonqo2]

S&M agreements include the ability to say 'uncle' at any stage, clearly this woman was kept against her will so at that stage the couple took advantage of the situation and held her against her will. S&M isn't carte blanche for someone to do whatever they like to you for as long as they see fit, starve you, and hold you against your will. It's a role playing sex game, with rules and mutual respect. Not everyone's cup of tea, but consensual.

yup, is consensual. both parties must agree on the terms of the relationship, eg: is it going to be 24/7? are other people involved?

I totally agree with your post,BDSM is not everyone's cup of tea but is based on mutual respect, boundaries and the principle of not harming the other person




lupus est homini homo, non homo, non quom qualis sit novit

 

[nao]

http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/763

so many deaths

 

[CHERIE.T]

This story is just too far out there for me. EXCEPT I feel real sadness for the woman held against her will.

And wth gets a tattoo of a scan bar?

 

[SeriouslySearching]

This story is just too far out there for me. EXCEPT I feel real sadness for the woman held against her will.

And wth gets a tattoo of a scan bar?

They have a whole website of people doing it. Now how many of those were willing participants? Who knows?!

I think it is horrible to glorify and perpetuate human trafficking.

 

[CHERIE.T]

They have a whole website of people doing it. Now how many of those were willing participants? Who knows?!

I think it is horrible to glorify and perpetuate human trafficking.

It is appalling SS.

 

[Sonya610]

i was'nt born into violence, but did experiance pervy violent stepdads, the violent husband, that was my choice, but why is that different to s&m-- but it was s&m

There is a big difference! Unless of course you actively enjoyed the abuse while it was happening and looked forward to the next episode.

S&M refers to Sadomasochism. The word "masochism" is key, it means the the person on the receiving end derives PLEASURE, often sexual pleasure, from the pain and/or humiliation.

mas·och·ism
the tendency to derive pleasure, especially sexual gratification, from one's own pain or humiliation.

Putting up with abuse because you can't or won't leave the relationship is not the same thing even though it may be consensual on some level.

 

[Sonya610]

I really don't see this as "human trafficking". Human trafficking typically involves folks that are lured into a situation through deception (i.e. they go to a foreign country to be a model) and end up held against their will as a prostitute or some such thing for the financial profit of others.

In this case the person almost certainly went into the situation expecting to be a slave and then at some point wanted out.

I have come across quite a few wannabe full time slaves online and many of the males are pretty hard core. The males that are truly into the idea of being owned as slaves (vs having their sexual fantasies fulfilled) often include labor is often a big part of their servitude. Many will turn over their bank accounts for the right "owner" and many LOVE the idea of being tattooed.

It is also quite possible that the person AGREED to the various extreme punishments (i.e. being chained to a tree, having pee thrown on them etc...) in advance and agreed that it was suitable treatment for a wayward slave etc.... If that was the case, and the internet conversations are still available, it will make for an interesting jury debate.

I personally would have to know the full story if I were on the jury, I would not be in a rush to convict unless the victim's injury's were substantial.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

https://www.facebook.com/christina.harper.104

https://www.facebook.com/zen.chaotic?ref=br_rs

https://www.facebook.com/TheNotSoConventionalMom?fref=ufi

jmo - think this is being blown out of proportion, the said victim, went into this relationship willingly knowing it was a s&m thing. Many a person end up in-a not the dream world they envisioned- you know- a partner that hurts their children, or is violent. But many of those people end up in jail for those frightning bad choices.

If ya get into an s&m relationship , theres a probability theres going to be chains. If malnourishment or signs of longterm abuse are present, thats different.
But because you don't like the choice you made --does'nt make it kidnaping jmo

there are FB pics but no whips or chains

Can you point out where the victim was into s & m? The victim went willingly to their place but not as a slave as far as I've read. I don't believe the victim's page was used by her, it was probably hacked by one of the accused.

Seems like from fb, Christina Harper has only been married 2 years to Rodriguez. This was probably his 'thing', and the 2 accused women went along with it, was exciting for them, scapegoating a poor transgender woman.

This case definitely fits the criteria of human trafficking.

The Trafficking Protocol, which now has 159 parties,[13] defines human trafficking as:
(a) [...] the recruitment, transportation, transfer, harbouring or receipt of persons, by means of threat or use of force or other forms of coercion, of abduction, of fraud, of deception, of the abuse of power or of a position of vulnerability or of the giving or receiving of payments or benefits to achieve the consent of a person having control over another person, for the purpose of exploitation. Exploitation shall include, at a minimum, the exploitation of the prostitution of others or other forms of sexual exploitation, forced labour or services, slavery or practices similar to slavery, servitude or the removal of organs;

Bonded labor, or debt bondage, is probably the least known form of labor trafficking today, and yet it is the most widely used method of enslaving people. Victims become "bonded" when their labor is demanded as a means of repayment for a loan or service in which its terms and conditions have not been defined or in which the value of the victims’ services is not applied toward the liquidation of the debt. Generally, the value of their work is greater than the original sum of money "borrowed."[19]

Forced labor is a situation in which victims are forced to work against their own will under the threat of violence or some other form of punishment; their freedom is restricted and a degree of ownership is exerted.

Human trafficking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[tlcya]

For a brief time, investigators say, the relationship was consensual. The victim was given daily chores such as serving meals, tending to animals, installing a swimming pool, digging trenches, removing fallen trees and performing sexual acts. She slept in a 3-by-5-foot wooden box.

http://www.startribune.com/local/north/262402571.html

She thought she was moving in with trusted friends whom she met through the online BDSM community.

But when she tried to put an end to "roleplay" that had grown more and more abusive, they put her in chains and branded her.

SNIP

The woman met Rodriguez and Harper through the website Collarme.com, which iscurrently offline due to an unrelated domain dispute. The woman, who wanted to pursue lifestyle roleplay as a slave, agreed to move from her home in Minnesota to live with the couple in rural Louisiana after her family disowned her because of her "new lifestyle."

http://www.dailydot.com/crime/trans-woman-escapes-slavery-still-in-chains/

 

[Sonya610]

I have to wonder if "she" signed a slave contract that detailed possible punishments.

In my humble opinion she wasn't being treated as special as she liked after she had served for a while, the perks were diminishing for whatever reason, probably because the master was getting bored with the sex. Or maybe it was jealousy, lots of possible reasons.

The fact is she is still living and breathing which says a lot, generally when someone chains you to a tree in the rural south you aren't going to live long enough to tell your story to the press.

 

[pukasonqo2]

I have to wonder if "she" signed a slave contract that detailed possible punishments.

In my humble opinion she wasn't being treated as special as she liked after she had served for a while, the perks were diminishing for whatever reason, probably because the master was getting bored with the sex. Or maybe it was jealousy, lots of possible reasons.

The fact is she is still living and breathing which says a lot, generally when someone chains you to a tree in the rural south you aren't going to live long enough to tell your story to the press.

she might have or she should have, nobody should start a BDSM relationship without one
was she collared? usually the master collars the slave after a certain period of trial to mark ownership of the slave
i got the feeling that what she was after was a real BDSM relationship but instead found herself a victim in some sickos' fantasy


lupus est homini homo, non homo, non quom qualis sit novit

 

[PastTense]

Well, the judge doesn't appear to agree with most of the sentiments expressed in this thread as he lowered the bond:
"The 37-year-old man accused of what Natchitoches Sheriff Victor Jones Jr. called “the most severe and disturbing case of human trafficking ever investigated in Natchitoches Parish” bonded out of jail today. David Rodriguez, orignially held on a $635,000 bond was able to get out of jail after a Natchitoches Parish District judge on Wednesday lowered his bond to $75,000....Rodriguez next court date is Jan. 15, 2015."
http://www.arklatexhomepage.com/sto...pect-bonds-out-o/27189/qMvYcsiywUWkQmJkvfqUpQ

 

[OkieGranny]

http://www.kare11.com/story/news/cr...-held-captive-shares-survival-story/12820471/

A Minnesota woman is sharing her story on how she escaped two years of enslavement from a home in Louisiana...

Tiffany says she met her alleged captors, David Rodriguez and Christina Harper, on a bondage and fetish website. She moved to the couple's home in 2012, because Tiffany says she was severely depressed after her family disowned her. Fifteen years prior, she had undergone a sex change. Tiffany says for two years she suffered all types of torture, including getting tased with a stun gun and chained to a tree.

She escaped last May after breaking two padlocks with a screwdriver — and with a 35 foot chain around her neck — she stole a car and found help.

http://www.arklatexhomepage.com/sto...shares-her-story/29133/nOuY-z6JnEOjjd8aa6GPHQ

While living there, she did chores around the home eight to 12 hours a day, including fixing cars, digging a trench, and cleaning the trailer. She slept in a three by three foot box. In return, they fed her, gave her somewhere to stay, and made all the decisions for her. At first, Harper took her out to lunch once a month, but that stopped after awhile and she mostly stayed in the home.

"When I first moved in, it wasn't too bad. As a slave, I did have some weird things I had to do, like the first couple weeks I slept in the dog kennel,” said Tiffany...

In April of 2014, things started to take a turn for the worse. The couple involved their new girlfriend, Amber Lomas, in their beatings. Tiffany said they met her at a “Munch” party in the fall of 2013. In April, the couple along with their girlfriend Amber Lomas allegedly carved their initials in Tiffany’s skin.