NY - Twins, boy and girl, 5, found dead in Bronx apartment, no signs of obvious trauma, Mount Hope, 18 Dec 2023

[cocomod]

That timeline doesn't make sense, in my opinion. I assume it could be due to error in reporting?

I would be extremely surprised if they were foaming at the mouth at 5:00 a.m. and mom didn't immediately take them to the hospital - I think this could be bad reporting. I think the foaming at mouth and nose was discovered upon their death - MOO!

 

[cocomod]

MOO: it‘s aspiration secondary to CO.

The reports have said multiple times that no CO was present when the investigation was done. JMHO, but CO has been ruled out.

 

[Rosydecember]

Any update or any idea when the autopsies will be completed?

 

[Pseudonymph]

I would be extremely surprised if they were foaming at the mouth at 5:00 a.m. and mom didn't immediately take them to the hospital - I think this could be bad reporting. I think the foaming at mouth and nose was discovered upon their death - MOO!

In this country with no universal healthcare, even for children, people put off calling an ambulance until it’s too late. In NY you can get children’s healthcare regardless of immigration status, however of course there are income requirements. You can be just a few dollars past the mark and not be able to get it. Possibly they are citizens and the dad had good insurance and I’m just spitballing, but anything is possible. If the kids couldn’t walk and they live in a sixth-floor walk up, and they don’t have a car, what could a mom do who didn’t want to pay for an ambulance? Etc.

 

[caradana]

The reports have said multiple times that no CO was present when the investigation was done. JMHO, but CO has been ruled out.

Could’ve been way later.

 

[Fika]

Both of them vomited at 3 am and died around 5 am shortly after perhaps.
I would be surprised if it’s virus/ bacteria because it is very uncommon for two individuals die at the same time even if infected together. Not unheard of I suppose but uncommon for sure.
Late call for help is puzzling ( by 11am) might be explained by mom’s shock and inability to do anything, people react in various ways when something like this happens . Curious about results from toxicology I still believe it’s some kind of poison.

 

[adot0902]

Any chance it could be food related? I see they were from a part of Africa that is known for consuming bush meat, and I'm not judging we eat souse and scrapple in my family but with traveling and importing and it being illegal I imagine much of the bush meat that comes to the US is no good. I also imagine you would miss the taste of certain things from home and maybe take risks to get those "comfort" items.

In case anyone has an urge to learn about bush meat in the US: https://earthtimes.org/blogs/health/bushmeat-nyc?currency=GBP

 

[Fika]

Any chance it could be food related? I see they were from a part of Africa that is known for consuming bush meat, and I'm not judging we eat souse and scrapple in my family but with traveling and importing and it being illegal I imagine much of the bush meat that comes to the US is no good. I also imagine you would miss the taste of certain things from home and maybe take risks to get those "comfort" items.

In case anyone has an urge to learn about bush meat in the US: https://earthtimes.org/blogs/health/bushmeat-nyc?currency=GBP

I actually thought about food as a source of illness. Not specifically meat but something food related and I think it’s a possibility.

 

[10ofRods]

Both of them vomited at 3 am and died around 5 am shortly after perhaps.
I would be surprised if it’s virus/ bacteria because it is very uncommon for two individuals die at the same time even if infected together. Not unheard of I suppose but uncommon for sure.
Late call for help is puzzling ( by 11am) might be explained by mom’s shock and inability to do anything, people react in various ways when something like this happens . Curious about results from toxicology I still believe it’s some kind of poison.

That's what is so weird. Almost any toxin or disease would not cause simultaneous death. OTOH, it seems both were discovered dead around 5 am - so death could have been at slightly different times.

But still, with a virus or bacterial infection, both dying in a 2 hour window is very strange. I suppose the vomiting could have been due to something like brain swelling, meaning that both were nearing death in any case - and died minutes or an hour apart.

If they were sick the week before, it seems unlikely to be food - but the vomiting is concerning.

 

[jennytrevor]

That's what is so weird. Almost any toxin or disease would not cause simultaneous death. OTOH, it seems both were discovered dead around 5 am - so death could have been at slightly different times.

But still, with a virus or bacterial infection, both dying in a 2 hour window is very strange. I suppose the vomiting could have been due to something like brain swelling, meaning that both were nearing death in any case - and died minutes or an hour apart.

If they were sick the week before, it seems unlikely to be food - but the vomiting is concerning.

I agree the timing of death being very close is strange, but considering these are two twins who are likely roughly the same size, same genetic background (so may metabolize a poison similarly or respond to a disease the same way), have exposure to the same viruses/bacteria throughout their lives leading to similar immune systems, and going everywhere together, meaning the same exposure to environmental hazards--I would think if any two people are likely to die at the same time, it would be young twins.

 

[Fika]

I read the article again (english is not my native language) but timeline might be off because they were still alive by 5 am and discovered dead much later is it possible?

“The mother saw her children alive around 5 a.m., but called for help around 11 a.m. after finding them in medical distress “

What if they vomited at 3 am mom attended to them until 5 am when she went back to bed and woke up late being tired after being up half of the night then found them them dead did cpr and called for help.
Also father left for work so if they were found dead at 5 am it would mean the father leaves for work before 5 which is possible or they were thought to be asleep.
Any thoughts?

Twins Found Dead in N.Y.C. Apartment Were Foaming at the Mouth After Apparent 'Medical Tragedy'

The 5-year-old twins who were found dead inside a New York City apartment on Monday died of an apparent "medical tragedy," according to police.

people.com

 

[10ofRods]

I agree the timing of death being very close is strange, but considering these are two twins who are likely roughly the same size, same genetic background (so may metabolize a poison similarly or respond to a disease the same way), have exposure to the same viruses/bacteria throughout their lives leading to similar immune systems, and going everywhere together, meaning the same exposure to environmental hazards--I would think if any two people are likely to die at the same time, it would be young twins.

But they are not identical twins. They are no closer in genetics than any two siblings. But, they are the same age, for sure. Maybe there's a familial dominant gene that both have - affecting immune system or something else. For sure, the parents should undergo thorough genetic counseling.

Yes, same environmental hazards (was it the school?). I would think identical twins would be more likely to die at the same time, given the same variables, for them to die within, say, 10 minutes of each other is really unusual. Surely they are not of identical weight, so it's probably not acute poisoning. But, if they both have some rare gene (possible) and were experiencing, say, RSV... or similar...it certainly could happen.

They have to have been exposed to the same virus/bacterium, would be my thought. OTOH, since they are no more closely related than any two siblings and we hardly ever hear a story where two siblings that are, say, a year apart dying at almost exactly the same time, at home, it's still very much a mystery.

 

[10ofRods]

I read the article again (english is not my native language) but timeline might be off because they were still alive by 5 am and discovered dead much later is it possible?

“The mother saw her children alive around 5 a.m., but called for help around 11 a.m. after finding them in medical distress “

What if they vomited at 3 am mom attended to them until 5 am when she went back to bed and woke up late being tired after being up half of the night then found them them dead did cpr and called for help.
Also father left for work so if they were found dead at 5 am it would mean the father leaves for work before 5 which is possible or they were thought to be asleep.
Any thoughts?

Twins Found Dead in N.Y.C. Apartment Were Foaming at the Mouth After Apparent 'Medical Tragedy'

The 5-year-old twins who were found dead inside a New York City apartment on Monday died of an apparent "medical tragedy," according to police.

people.com

Thanks for clarifying that. Now I'm very confused. I understand that she was tired, and might have expected the kids to wake her up (but neither awoke). She did CPR (so they must have suffered cardiac arrest sometime earlier) to no avail. All the articles say she "found them dead." So between 5 am and 11 am-ish, they both died. ME should be able to glean some clues as to how close together they died. That's a 6 hour window. That poor mom.

 

[Stunned]

She was very tired! They weren’t cosleeping so she could keep a closer eye on them were they? I can’t remember!

 

[Pseudonymph]

I have been that mom in the middle of the night. The kids puke, you change the sheets, you fall back in bed and you hope they feel better in the morning. I don’t blame her.

 

[10ofRods]

I have been that mom in the middle of the night. The kids puke, you change the sheets, you fall back in bed and you hope they feel better in the morning. I don’t blame her.

I don't blame her either. But she will likely blame herself.

 

[Fika]

I feel really sorry for the mom, she did what countless moms out there do stay up with sick kids to make sure they are okay.
Vomiting itself is usually not a cause for concern, with so many bugs going around right now.( im currently having covid over Christmas so ya a lot of bugs out there) .

They probably felt better in the morning around 5 so they all went to sleep.
Nobody should blame her and mostly she shouldn’t blame herself.

 

[MsMarple]

Rehashing an earlier article (December 20) from the New York Times in order to figure out a timeline. It may be behind a paywall for some so I’ll paraphrase:

November 20 the boy vomited at school and was sent home.
December 12 he had a runny nose and other cold symptoms and was sent home again.

The mother reported that recently - no date given - the girl had an ear infection, also vomited and was biting and spitting at school.

According to the mother she last saw them alive at 5am. At 11:20 she found them both deceased, bodies stiff and cold. Neighbors saw the boy’s body lying on the floor. Both were pronounced dead at 11:30am.

Both twins were well nourished, well dressed and regularly attended school. There was no record of calls to the apartment by police or other agencies and neighbors described the mother as kind and doting.

Deaths of 5-Year-Old Twins in Bronx Apartment Remain a Mystery

The police said they have no evidence to suggest foul play in the deaths of the children, who had been ill. The New York City medical examiner is investigating.

www.nytimes.com

So apart from vomiting the twins didn’t seem to display common symptoms unless they both had colds/flu but that wasn’t reported. No one else in the building had a medical emergency which implies something isolated.

I wonder how long the toxicology results will take?

 

[PawneeDew]

Not sure about the accuracy of reporting between the different publications, but ...

3:00 am throwing up in their beds
5:00 am last seen alive, foaming at the mouth and nose
11:21 am first responders called and find children in rigor

from: 2 young children found dead in Mount Hope section of Bronx; investigation underway

Rigor that quickly??

 

[cocomod]

Rigor that quickly??

Rigor can happen in 2 hours