NY - Woman to become NY firefighter despite failing crucial fitness test

[Cubby]

[h=1]United States v. City of New York
FDNY Employment Discrimination

Casehttp://www.justice.gov/crt/spec_topics/fdny/[/h]
[h=1]New York City to pay $98 million to settle case alleging FDNY discriminated against minority applicants[/h]http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/city-pay-98-million-fdny-discrimination-case-article-1.1725702



I'm not convinced the reason the NYFD is hanging onto the FST testing standards because it is necessary to have a standard of physical strength not required anywhere else in the country. Based on history, it appears hanging onto these standards might just be the last bit of 'legal discrimination' they have to limit qualified applicants to keep things, well, the same as they've always been.

 

[SugarQueen]

I STILL don't see how the old test discriminated against ANYONE. It's simple....if you can't pass the written exam, you can't have the job. If you can't pass the physical/ endurance exam , you can't have the job. Is it really that hard??

 

[katydid23]

I am not the one confused by the test.
The question and answer set is very poorly written. The answer that is supposedly correct could be factually wrong.
They don't provide necessary information in the question to pick C. Sure it gives the most details. But there is no information on whether this detail is correct.

IMO< you are missing the point of the question. It is not about the factual information. It is all made up info---there is no factual information that is right or wrong for this question. . The question is about HOW TO COMMUNICATE. And when writing a report and/or giving out information about the location of the fire, you use SPECIFIC information.

And sorry, but you are confused because you do not understand WHY the correct answer is C. It is not all that poorly written. ALL of the necessary information needed to figure out the correct answer is there.

 

[Cubby]

I STILL don't see how the old test discriminated against ANYONE. It's simple....if you can't pass the written exam, you can't have the job. If you can't pass the physical/ endurance exam , you can't have the job. Is it really that hard??

I have no opinion on the written part of the exam. My concern is with a physical endurance exam used ONLY in NY when the majority of FD's across the country succesfully use a different physical exam. I fail to see why the NY FST test is superior to the tests all over the rest of the country. I'm a life long Chicagoan. The skyscraper argument doesn't cut it with me.

No where has it been mentioned that Wax did not meet or exceed standards acceptable everywhere else in the US EXCEPT NY. There seems to be some question on whether the requirements within the FST test are in accordance with what is necessary on the job.

Medical testing and licensing, I assume, is standard across the board. AFAIK, it doesn't differ from state to state or from city to city. Why is it ok to take a single city, which isn't that different from other large cities, and exclude based on their fire fighting testing?

What if we varied our teaching requirements, our medical requirements from city to city and state to state?

I still do not know how Wax testing scores compare to the firefighter scores in any other city across the country. If her scores are high enough to have met the requirements everywhere else..... It's not like fires differ in NYC than the rest of the country......

That said if it were me, with the nonsense backlash, I wouldn't work for the NDFY. There are too many other wonderful communities across the country that would likely love to have Wax on their team.

 

[screecher]

Snipped

...

That said if it were me, with the nonsense backlash, I wouldn't work for the NDFY. There are too many other wonderful communities across the country that would likely love to have Wax on their team.

BBM

I'm pretty sure Wax would have to meet all the requirements that everyone else met, regardless of where she lived. Wonderful community or not.

 

[Nova]

Does it? This supposedly correct answer makes no sense to me, because the question doesn't include "southeast" in it. So how does someone supposed to know the correct answer is "southeast" corner of the basement? What if it's in the northwest corner of the basement? Or northeast? Or southwest? This information isn't provided in the question, so supposedly correct answer doesn't make a lick of sense.

Look again, Jenny. The correct answer (C) DOES identify the southeast corner of the basement.

 

[Nova]

Oh, I see your point now. I think one is supposed to assume that Capt. Green knows which corner of the basement was on fire.

 

[jjenny]

Oh, I see your point now. I think one is supposed to assume that Capt. Green knows which corner of the basement was on fire.

How would we know that? I've never met Capt. Green. Maybe he doesn't know right from left.

 

[Nova]

You should be able to answer a question without already knowing (from practice tests) what the supposedly "correct" answer is.

No, on any test you need to know what they are testing and what makes an answer correct. (In this case, it was specificity of description, not accurately pinpointing an imaginary fire.)

When I went back to grad school, I had to take the GRE (an SAT-type test). I totally flunked the first couple of practice tests because I had been out of school for awhile and had forgotten how those tests work. But after a few more practice tests, I had no trouble whatsoever. It's all about understanding the intention of the exam.

 

[Nova]

That's because NYC has more skyscrapers without sprinkler systems than any other city in the country. This has already been explained. What is adequate for Chicago or LA is not adequate for NY.

The standards should be appropriate for the work that's required. It would be silly to require every FD in the entire country to have physical standards for firefighters equal to that of NYC. And it would be silly to require the FDNY to lower its physical standards to that of the rest of the country. In the case of NYC, there is a reason the standards need to be higher.

Of course you're just taking the word of someone who has an investment in maintaining the status quo. I'd need to see an evaluation from an impartial expert that the NY test actually makes a difference in buildings that lack smoke detectors.

 

[Nova]

The NYFD has their own requirements. She failed to meet them. She sould not be a firefighter.

I want to be a surgeon. I don't meet the requirements. I should notbe a surgeon.

Remember 9/11? That's how NY differs from LA or Chicago. Believe me when I tell you. I lived through it.

Oh, please. There's no way to compare the behavior of NY firefighters with those of LA or Chicago on 9/11. For one thing, would the NY firefighters have charged so willingly into the WTC if they had known the buildings would come down? Maybe, but we'll never know. (I'm not suggesting they weren't brave, just that some seem to think bravery is inflated when the end result is catastrophic; that is only true if all the risks were known in advance.)

We'll certainly never know how firefighters would have behaved in LA or Chicago. But I will point out that during the riots 25 years ago, LA firefighters continued rescuing citizens and fighting fires in LA buildings even while a significant number of the rioters were shooting at them.

 

[Nova]

Well said.

I'll only add that its not a question of NY's skyscrapers, sprinklers and building codes being better than the rest of the country.

With the exception of L.A, New York City has more people per square mile who are dependent on competent rescue personel, than any other city in the country.

The events of 911 should serve as poignant and painful reminder of that to us all.

When standards are lowered like this we all lose and IMO saving someones feeling isnt worth a single life lost.

What's with all the 9/11 references? A woman can be crushed in a crumbling building as quickly as a man and whether or not she passes a test.

 

[sonjay]

United States v. City of New York
FDNY Employment Discrimination

Casehttp://www.justice.gov/crt/spec_topics/fdny/


New York City to pay $98 million to settle case alleging FDNY discriminated against minority applicants

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/city-pay-98-million-fdny-discrimination-case-article-1.1725702



I'm not convinced the reason the NYFD is hanging onto the FST testing standards because it is necessary to have a standard of physical strength not required anywhere else in the country. Based on history, it appears hanging onto these standards might just be the last bit of 'legal discrimination' they have to limit qualified applicants to keep things, well, the same as they've always been.

You know what? You could be right.

I'm not an expert in exactly what level of physical skills, intelligence, literacy, reasoning ability, reading comprehension, communication skills, and other factors are needed for firefighting in NYC. I would rather err on the side of caution by leaving those decisions to the people in charge at FDNY, who know more about than I ever will.

 

[screecher]

IMO< you are missing the point of the question. It is not about the factual information. It is all made up info---there is no factual information that is right or wrong for this question. . The question is about HOW TO COMMUNICATE. And when writing a report and/or giving out information about the location of the fire, you use SPECIFIC information.

And sorry, but you are confused because you do not understand WHY the correct answer is C. It is not all that poorly written. ALL of the necessary information needed to figure out the correct answer is there.

Yes, they are testing for reading comprehension. It is crucial the firefighter be able to comprehend the text they are reading.

I agree, it is not poorly written.

 

[Nova]

I STILL don't see how the old test discriminated against ANYONE. It's simple....if you can't pass the written exam, you can't have the job. If you can't pass the physical/ endurance exam , you can't have the job. Is it really that hard??

Like if you can pee your name in the snow you qualify, but if have you have to squat, you fail. No discrimination at all. Same standard for everyone!

 

[jjenny]

Yes, they are testing for reading comprehension. It is crucial the firefighter be able to comprehend the text they are reading.

I agree, it is not poorly written.

If they were testing for reading comprehension, C wouldn't be a correct answer because nothing in the question indicates in which rear corner of the basement the fire is.
I would really love to see what all of you that claim it's not poorly written would have picked if you were not given the answer key.

 

[Momoffourboys]

She Failed the test.

 

[screecher]

Like if you can pee your name in the snow you qualify, but if have you have to squat, you fail. No discrimination at all. Same standard for everyone!

BBM

I'm pretty sure writing your name in the snow while peeing is not part of the testing.

 

[SStarr33]

If they were testing for reading comprehension, C wouldn't be a correct answer because nothing in the question indicates in which rear corner of the basement the fire is.
I would really love to see what all of you that claim it's not poorly written would have picked if you were not given the answer key.

I picked C

 

[katydid23]

If they were testing for reading comprehension, C wouldn't be a correct answer because nothing in the question indicates in which rear corner of the basement the fire is.
I would really love to see what all of you that claim it's not poorly written would have picked if you were not given the answer key.

When someone is taking these kinds of tests they need to STUDY how these tests work. I learned about it years ago, when my 18 yr old son studied to become an EMT. His best friend failed the written test. So we looked up practice tests online and he figured out how to figure out what they are 'asking.' Since then he has taken lots of similar tests as he has progressed in his career as a first responder. There is a right way to take these tests.