OH - 9 killed + Gunman, 16 injured, Mass Shooting, Oregon District, Dayton, 4 Aug 2019

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  • #581
The Ohio gunman described himself on social media as a pro-Satan “leftist” who wanted Joe Biden’s generation to die off, hated President Trump and law enforcement, and hoped to vote for Sen. Elizabeth Warren for president.


Connor Betts, Ohio gunman, was Elizabeth Warren supporter

“Vote blue for gods sake,” he wrote last Nov. 2. On the day of the senator’s death, Betts wrote “F—k John McCain.”
The problem isn't Republican or Democratic parties that have been functioning as normal political parties for decades.

It's easy to point fingers across the aisle these days (seems to be the national past time, actually), but that finger pointing is not in the right direction (imo) and it sure as heck isn't solving the violence problems.

Instead of separating, we need to pull TOGETHER.

jmo
 
  • #582
This is just about over, but the full video should be available soon

Press conference at Betts family house following Oregon District shooting

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Volume kind of low, a little difficult to hear, but he said LE is not aware of any hit lists, hate lists, etc. If that info is out there, it hasn't been shared with LE. Parents are getting support from friends. They are victims, too. Not revealing anything about what they've found in searches. Only criminal record was minor traffic offenses, etc.
 
  • #583
delete please
 
  • #584
Those who are directly affected are suffering a horrible loss, and nothing else matters.

But for others, it's probably worth putting this in context.

Humanity has a long history of violence. Blood lust has been part of the human condition forever. Think of the names and the atrocities they've committed: ISIS, Robert Mugabe, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler (and Eichmann, Himmler, Mengele, and others), Vladimir Lenin, Talat, H.H. Holmes, Jack the Ripper, King Leopold, Elizabeth Bathory, Queen Mary I, Ivan the Terrible, Timur, Vlad the Impaler, Genghis Kahn, Atilla the Hun, Caligula, Nero.....

So yes, there will always be violence. It's human nature. Fortunately, the world is less violent now than it has been.

And as for mass shootings, they remain rare.

https://everytownresearch.org/reports/mass-shootings-analysis/

9-year period from January 2009 and December 2017

173 mass shootings

Mostly accurate w/ historical context, but the problem is that we're working to reduce and eliminate so many of these other kinds of deaths. We're not doing much to eliminate mass shootings. We absolutely don't have the success rate for those kinds of crimes as other developed countries. We need to do more, soon. JMO

1,793 people shot, including 1,001 killed, or an average of 111 deaths per year.

Domestic/family violence accounts for more than half of these shootings, and 102 of the 173 shootings took place entirely in private homes.

BEHIND THE BLOODSHED: THE UNTOLD STORY OF AMERICA'S MASS KILLINGS

From 2006 to 2017, there have been more than 350 mass killings in the United States, 272 of which were shootings. Those 272 shootings killed 1,483 people, or an average of approximately 123 deaths per year.

130 of those 272 shootings were domestic/family situations that killed 597 people.

31 of those 272 were robbery/burglaries that killed 137 people.

58 of those 272 were “public killings” that killed 517 people, so an average of 5 public mass shootings that kill 43 people year.

Only 5 of the mass killers had an automatic weapon on them.

Other causes of death in the US:
  • Accidental poisoning: 64,000 per year
  • Flu: 55,000 per year (1,700 under age 45)
  • Car accidents: 40,000 per year
  • Falls: 36,000 per year (1,100 under age 45)
  • Alcohol induced liver disease: 20,000 to 25,000 per year (3,000 under age 45)
  • Accidental strangulation: 6,900 per year
  • HIV: 5,000 to 6,000 per year
  • Accidental drowning: 3,700 per year (400 pool drownings)
  • Mother childbirth complications: 1,200 per year
  • Bicycle accidents: 700 to 800 per year
  • Accidental gun discharge: 400 to 500 per year
  • Flesh eating bacteria: 150 to 200 per year
  • Food allergies: 150 to 200 per year
  • Mass shootings: 100 to 120 per year
  • Dog bites: 30 to 50 per year
  • Skiing/snowboarding: 35 to 40 per year
  • Lightning strikes: 20 to 40 per year

Good historical context, but we're always working to lower death rates from most of these causes. We need to do more to end or drastically reduce the mass shootings. The US has a much bigger problem with them compared to other developed nations.
 
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  • #585
  • #586
From press conference:
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Reporter stating female reported CB to police about his threats in 2009 however police state they have no record of it, will look into it.

Only minor traffic violations.

Family hasnot yet designated a speaker for them, police hoping they do.

Police can not confirm if there was a hit list.

Family being treated as victims.

There are people at family's home "helping them with other issues they are facing but police are not ready to share that with you right now".

No information on what has been taken from house or investigation will be shared.

Basically no new information shared.
Based on the previous high school principal
confirmation that the incidents involving
CB did happen and all the students who remember it also, My guess is police may not
have a record because he being a juvenile,
they brushed it off and let the school handle it.
 
  • #587
Op-Ed: We have studied every mass shooting since 1966. Here's what we've learned about the shooters
AUG. 4, 2019

“Although we haven’t found that mass shooters are all alike, our data do reveal four commonalities among the perpetrators of nearly all the mass shootings we studied.

“First, the vast majority of mass shooters in our study experienced early childhood trauma and exposure to violence at a young age.”

Snip

“Second, practically every mass shooter we studied had reached an identifiable crisis point in the weeks or months leading up to the shooting. They often had become angry and despondent because of a specific grievance.”

Snip

“Third, most of the shooters had studied the actions of other shooters and sought validation for their motives. People in crisis have always existed. But in the age of 24-hour rolling news and social media, there are scripts to follow that promise notoriety in death.”

Snip

“Fourth, the shooters all had the means to carry out their plans.”

—-

Meanwhile, in business news today:

Gun stocks rise after mass shootings and Trump's call for stronger background checks - CNN

—-

The terrible numbers that grow with each mass shooting
https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...-shootings-in-america/?utm_term=.d598c60e47f1
 
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  • #588
I don't think the issue was that the sister didn't live up to his standards, but that he didn't live up to the family standards - he couldn't achieve whatever she and the parents had achieved, so he destroyed her and any reminder of her.

JMOpinion at this time.
He was the one killing, and there is nothing in the record that I can find where his family believed that he didn't live up to their expectations. In fact, the mother posts loving pictures and comments about her children. The pictures seem to convey a loving family. I don't see any evidence of an overbearing family filled with anger and hate. Do you have links to any evidence of that?
 
  • #589
MSM has mentioned a post still on his father's
fb when CB was 14, and dad says something like
'This is for you CB' and it showed a pic of some
super dooper powerful pistol. I would interpret that as dad supported CB's gun interest.
MOO
Do you have a link to that?
 
  • #590
  • #591
RSBM
Bleh, I can't imagine how sick those girls must have felt attending school with him.
He also had a plan to shoot up the school in 2010/2011.
Dayton Gunman Reportedly Suspended From High School for Writing “Hit List” on Wall
Most of all I want to know
1. What the hell did the school do to "fix" the situation?
2. Did he recieve therapy/counseling? And for how long?
3. Why the **** was he accepted back to the school? Apology letters? That would just bring trauma back to the girls who were in fear of being raped and killed.
4. Was local LE aware of his threats and attempted actions?
I hope and pray that this wasn't a preventable situation, like Nickolas Cruz. If it was we haven't learned anything from these past two decades of constant mass shootings... MOO

Edit: I'll see you all in the morning, I'm getting too angry and there's no way that I can express it except for making comments that are against TOS.
I feel sick even saying this, but if there's another shooting could someone please PM me? Thanks.
Have a good night, I hope we get some more news on his motive tomorrow.
As always, MOO.

This man was 24 years old. The list was made in high school. That was at least six year ago, at the shortest. LE can't keep an eye on every troubled teen, throughout their entire lives. Also, sometimes, troubled teens are just that, troubled teens, and outgrow stuff like that. Threats are made, sometimes just to get out of school. Not realizing the ramifications. However, this guy had some serious issues, but he managed to cloak them. The people he mingled with at the bars describe him favorably.

The man who gunned down nine people in Dayton, Ohio, was known at a local bar as an ever-friendly, happy guy who sometimes came in for a beer or two and was never a troublemaker.

Fellow customer Mike Kern says he sometimes played trivia with the slain shooter, 24-year-old Connor Betts, at Romer's Bar & Grill in Bellbrook, Betts' hometown southeast of Dayton. Kern says Betts often knew answers about current events and pop culture and never discussed violence. Kern describes Betts as "the nicest kid you could imagine."

Bartender Andy Baker says Betts was at Romer's last Monday and seemed fine. Baker says when he saw Betts identified as the shooter in the early Sunday massacre in a popular entertainment district, he thought: There's no way that's the guy.
 
  • #592
He was the one killing, and there is nothing in the record that I can find where his family believed that he didn't live up to their expectations. In fact, the mother posts loving pictures and comments about her children. The pictures seem to convey a loving family. I don't see any evidence of an overbearing family filled with anger and hate. Do you have links to any evidence of that?
I'm not suggesting the family thought he didn't live up to expectations, but that he himself felt inadequate or resentful that he himself couldn't (for whatever reason) match what they have achieved. And by "achieved," I mean, likely, simply being decent people.

Sorry it wasn't clear that I blame the shooter for shooting, not his family.

jmo
 
  • #593

From this report.

He was described by one former classmate as a 'real 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬' who allegedly threatened to kill women and attack his school.

'You can blame bullying (which would be lying), you can blame media (which would be extremely untruthful) or you can blame a society where threats against women that are bad enough to get you kicked out of high school are simply forgotten and allowed to ferment for almost a decade so he can kill nine people,' Ben Seitz wrote on Facebook.

'His violence was simply ignored as a 'boys will be boys' rhetorical/willfully ignorant cop out to protect that status quo.

'A lot of blame all around: He had access to guns, he was toxically masculine a**hole, the cops did nothing about his threats. The list goes on.'
 
  • #594
The Ohio gunman described himself on social media as a pro-Satan “leftist” who wanted Joe Biden’s generation to die off, hated President Trump and law enforcement, and hoped to vote for Sen. Elizabeth Warren for president.


Connor Betts, Ohio gunman, was Elizabeth Warren supporter

“Vote blue for gods sake,” he wrote last Nov. 2. On the day of the senator’s death, Betts wrote “F—k John McCain.”

That article is from the Washington Times (not the Washington Post), based on info from Heavy.com. The info on Heavy came from screen caps of a twitter account, IIRC, that didn't have his name attached to it, just some oddball fake name. So, I'm going to wait until we have more information from LE about this. I'm sure they're investigating.

JMO
 
  • #595
Naw, the twitter account's him (pix match up) but people are tryinta frame him as antifa and not a violent misogynist
 
  • #596
I know... back in 1996 Megan was a newborn and Connor was a toddler and who could have imagined how and where their lives would end? It's so horrific for all of the families.

In this case we have the suspects family also being the family of one of the victims... which is not common in these mass murders. It puts a whole different perspective on it.

In 60 seconds these 9 victims parents lost their children and any hopes and dreams of the future. No more weddings, no more grandkids, no careers, or anything else they may have done.

Megan's lost both of their children. It would be difficult enough to know your child was murdered by a stranger on a night out. Leaving their own children without a parent. Or to know that your child murdered strangers who were just out enjoying themselves.

To put both of those scenarios together and know that your only daughter was murdered by your only son before he killed 8 other bystanders? It's beyond belief and I would not survive it if it was me. I truly cannot wrap my mind around it.

I honestly hope there IS a manifesto somewhere that they find. Because I feel like the family needs as much information as they can to have any hope of surviving it.

JMO but I think you've found the motive. Of the countless people who have and will suffer from this tragedy, who will probably suffer the most? And IF that was his motive, how much more will it add to their suffering?
 
  • #597
From this report.

He was described by one former classmate as a 'real *******' who allegedly threatened to kill women and attack his school.

'You can blame bullying (which would be lying), you can blame media (which would be extremely untruthful) or you can blame a society where threats against women that are bad enough to get you kicked out of high school are simply forgotten and allowed to ferment for almost a decade so he can kill nine people,' Ben Seitz wrote on Facebook.

'His violence was simply ignored as a 'boys will be boys' rhetorical/willfully ignorant cop out to protect that status quo.

'A lot of blame all around: He had access to guns, he was toxically masculine a**hole, the cops did nothing about his threats. The list goes on.'

I hope his classmates share this info with LE. They'll probably be looking into his school records.

From the LE press interview earlier (local Bellbrook LE, not Dayton LE) there are jurisdictional issues, but I'm sure they'll be coordinating on the investigation. It's all pretty early in the investigation. danzn16 just posted a link to the video Bellbrook PD interview above for more info. He talks some about the killer's local crime record, etc. Wonder if the school didn't report his activities in high school?

ETA: Correction: Local LE is Sugar Creek Twp PD
 
  • #598
That article is from the Washington Times (not the Washington Post), based on info from Heavy.com. The info on Heavy came from screen caps of a twitter account, IIRC, that didn't have his name attached to it, just some oddball fake name. So, I'm going to wait until we have more information from LE about this. I'm sure they're investigating.

JMO

No, the account was live when Heavy did their story--they didn't just use screencaps. Twitter suspended the acct well after Heavy did their story.
 
  • #599
That article is from the Washington Times (not the Washington Post), based on info from Heavy.com. The info on Heavy came from screen caps of a twitter account, IIRC, that didn't have his name attached to it, just some oddball fake name. So, I'm going to wait until we have more information from LE about this. I'm sure they're investigating.

JMO


That’s fine, I believe it.
 
  • #600
Naw, the twitter account's him (pix match up) but people are tryinta frame him as antifa and not a violent misogynist
The two are not mutually exclusive.
 
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