The rules are the exact same. No one has the right to physically assault you.
What special rules are you talking about here?
GUILTY OH - Barb Williams for child abuse, Hancock County, 2014
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The rules are the exact same. No one has the right to physically assault you.
What special rules are you talking about here?
The rules should be the same. IMO the entire goal of parenting and the education system is to prepare children for adulthood.
I'm very saddened that so many people don't seem to understand that teachers and parents, should model APPROPRIATE behavior.
I see it as nothing short of ridiculous to threaten and hit a child while telling him it's not okay to assault his class mates.
I'm more than saddened. I'm despairing that it isn't blatantly obvious that her behavior was reprehensible. It's equally reprehensible if a parent does it.
It damages the child.
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I am feeling very very sorry for the children of Ohio.
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Speaking as someone who never hit my kids ever, (or anyone else's for that matter) not even once, I'm saddened that people want to ruin this woman's life and put her in jail for losing her temper at a very challenging child.
I certainly wouldn't be a public school kinder teacher if I didn't get support if I had a situation in my classroom that was unworkable and wasn't getting better.
Her behavior was dangerous - but my guess is, she didn't know that had happened to his neck until she saw it on video.
I don't see a problem (running and hiding behind the couch now) for a very angry teacher to grab a child by the shirt collar and get in their face. I just don't. Sometimes, with some kids, that's all that gets their attention.
As parents, we know that. Some kids you tell the the rules and they follow them. Some kids you have to punish to make them follow the rules. Some kids would shrink and hardly recover from being treated the way Ian was. Some kids go home and don't mention it and don't seem to even remember it and don't want to talk about it after a couple days of talking about it.
But, I'm out of here to go cook dinner and do other stuff. This isn't a discussion anymore - it's just giving a few posters a chance to vent whatever anger they have with this on me.
You have been damaged by repeatedly witnessing the systematic psychological, physical and emotional abuse of children. I don't think you even realize it. You are normalizing and excusing child abuse. You turn the other way when you see it. You're not horrified.
I mean this with all due respect. Please don't think this is a personal attack, it isn't meant to be.
There is indeed a better way. We as a society MUST get there. It's important.
If you look at other countries statistics where spanking has been outlawed...look at their crime rates compared to ours. The proof is there.
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I'm not permissive of this behavior, I'm always "in the middle ground". There's a reason why the sheriff didn't immediately press charges and the teacher wasn't in fact fired and the town isn't supporting the Nelsons.
Why do you think that is, if this is so one-sided as you and a few others perceive it to be? I think you're the one with the extreme reaction and I don't think this woman will ever see jail time because most people don't see this the way you do.
I also wonder if there are any men in this thread. I think Dads tend to see this a little differently, and even Ian's dad no longer wants to "boil and fester" in this and wants to move on.
It isn't me who sees this differently, it's you. I see it like the superintendent, the town, and the sheriff.
Why do you think that is, if this is so one-sided as you and a few others perceive it to be? I think you're the one with the extreme reaction and I don't think this woman will ever see jail time because most people don't see this the way you do.
I also wonder if there are any men in this thread. I think Dads tend to see this a little differently, and even Ian's dad no longer wants to "boil and fester" in this and wants to move on.
It isn't me who sees this differently, it's you. I see it like the superintendent, the town, and the sheriff.
No, it is NOT just me. The vast majority of people who are not closely connected with anyone in this story see ABUSE. You can't take the points of view of people who have a side, and see that as fact. The people in this community, will have a side no matter what the video says. The school won't take permanent actions until she gets the sue process tenured teachers get. Which happens to be a very long process. You can't just fire a tenured teacher. It doesn't work like that EVER. Not even in cases of sexual abuse. Tenured teachers don't just have job, the job is their property under the law. They HAVE to follow the due process. The superintendent has no power to fire her now. I suspect there is a plea deal being negotiated, which is why she has not been charged.
You are minimizing and normalizing abusive and violent behavior. That's not MY issue. That's yours. You clearly can't see that.
Okay, that literally made me laugh. For a moment I had the feeling those people who stomp their feet and watch chihuahuas go into hysterics.
Really, you've gone a bit round the bend with that accusation. I rest by saying I'm reacting the way those in the situation are reacting. But anyway I'm really done with this right now, gotta go cook chicken and pasta.
I am a parent and no, I never grabbed up my child and screamed in his face. Not once. I react calmly and firmly. I would simply call him over, or go to him, kneel down so I wasn't towering over him, hold his hands and lower my voice so he'd have to lean in closer and focus on what I was saying. It works.
I am not angry in the least. I'm sad. I've stated as much.
Some kids go home and never mention it because they were frightened to the core like I was. Some may have no one willing to listen to them when they do tell.
A child doesn't have the ability to help himself in situations like this. They feel helpless and hopeless. They are going to grow to see themselves as perpetual victims or strive and long for the day they are bigger, they are in control ... Basically they identify with their abuser and can't wait till they can be in that roll.
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Hejlena
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I lurk around on this conversation daily. Sadly, I believe some of the behavior that teachers and staff are allowed to get away with toward students has become very normalized in America. I've worked in the schools for many years now, and I've seen teachers and school staff do some pretty crappy things to kids. Some of it was out right abusive and that was reported. Some of it was borderline abusive and that was reported.
I've worked with children who have been diagnosed with EBD – emotional behavioral disorders – and I've worked with children who IMO probably should have that diagnosis who don't. I've worked at schools where the normal culture is to treat a challenging child with negative behavior. And people look the other way. I was in a shared first grade classroom – two separate classrooms separated only by bookshelves, when I heard the other classroom teachers screaming at a young girl who was considered "a problem child". She was towering over her and screaming in the child's face. When the teacher in my classroom began to walk over there, I thought "Oh good she's going to intervene – de-escalate her friend, help". But she didn't, and then there were two grown women towering over a child and screaming.
I took the child by the hand because as an aid at that time and in that sort of environment the teachers just wanted someone to remove the child from the classroom. I brought her to another room to sit in a break for a few minutes and I went and reported to the principal to the social worker. Nothing was done. I was told that this child have been a problem for a long time.
Mind you the child wasn't fighting or destroying property or anything like that at the moment before she was being screamed at. It was because she wouldn't sit in her desk and refused to take a break.
There are some tough little nuts who come to school. Our job is to get them an education. Maybe we can reach them, maybe we can't. But it takes an entire school and it takes a culture of positivity.
The school I work at this year has been extremely positive environment. I see nothing like it since I began working in schools, and it works. Children are treated with respect. In words and actions.
We have a six-year-old boy who transferred to the school in the middle of the school year, and he is one of those tough nuts to crack. He is angry, he is belligerent, he says and does some awful things. Many of us are frustrated with him. But with every negative interaction from him we counter that with a positive interaction – a genuinely intentionally positive interaction. We hold him to our rules and standards. But we do not approach him with negativity even when it seems as if he's pushing for it and testing our limits. And I see a tiny glimmer of hope in his eyes.
I working in autism classroom. We have one seven-year-old girl who should be in a different level classroom in my opinion. We need more help, she needs more help than we can give her, we need more staff. She head butts staff on a regular basis. She hits us and kicks us and spits at us. She has slammed her head into my knees so many times that I've come home with bruises.
Do I feel angry at her sometimes? Yes. And that's when I take a break. I ask for help. I do deep breathing. I count to 10 slowly. I walk away. I document. But I do not ever ever ever put my hands on her in anger.
Because putting your hands on a student in anger doesn't work and it's not right and it's not legal.
In my opinion it doesn't matter how much help this woman needed that she didn't get. That matters for her students, but it does not play into the fact that she put her hands on him and said some awfully scary things to him.
It doesn't matter that some think she was a wonderful woman. It doesn't matter to me that I believe this child's mother leaves a little bit to be desired in the mothering department.
It matters that she assaulted this child. Assault. Physical abuse. Emotional abuse. And again I say by not firing her or criminally charging her they are accepting her behavior. And telling children and adults that it's okay to put your hands on a child and to speak to them the way that she did--especially if that child was "horrible".
I've worked with children who have been diagnosed with EBD – emotional behavioral disorders – and I've worked with children who IMO probably should have that diagnosis who don't. I've worked at schools where the normal culture is to treat a challenging child with negative behavior. And people look the other way. I was in a shared first grade classroom – two separate classrooms separated only by bookshelves, when I heard the other classroom teachers screaming at a young girl who was considered "a problem child". She was towering over her and screaming in the child's face. When the teacher in my classroom began to walk over there, I thought "Oh good she's going to intervene – de-escalate her friend, help". But she didn't, and then there were two grown women towering over a child and screaming.
I took the child by the hand because as an aid at that time and in that sort of environment the teachers just wanted someone to remove the child from the classroom. I brought her to another room to sit in a break for a few minutes and I went and reported to the principal to the social worker. Nothing was done. I was told that this child have been a problem for a long time.
Mind you the child wasn't fighting or destroying property or anything like that at the moment before she was being screamed at. It was because she wouldn't sit in her desk and refused to take a break.
There are some tough little nuts who come to school. Our job is to get them an education. Maybe we can reach them, maybe we can't. But it takes an entire school and it takes a culture of positivity.
The school I work at this year has been extremely positive environment. I see nothing like it since I began working in schools, and it works. Children are treated with respect. In words and actions.
We have a six-year-old boy who transferred to the school in the middle of the school year, and he is one of those tough nuts to crack. He is angry, he is belligerent, he says and does some awful things. Many of us are frustrated with him. But with every negative interaction from him we counter that with a positive interaction – a genuinely intentionally positive interaction. We hold him to our rules and standards. But we do not approach him with negativity even when it seems as if he's pushing for it and testing our limits. And I see a tiny glimmer of hope in his eyes.
I working in autism classroom. We have one seven-year-old girl who should be in a different level classroom in my opinion. We need more help, she needs more help than we can give her, we need more staff. She head butts staff on a regular basis. She hits us and kicks us and spits at us. She has slammed her head into my knees so many times that I've come home with bruises.
Do I feel angry at her sometimes? Yes. And that's when I take a break. I ask for help. I do deep breathing. I count to 10 slowly. I walk away. I document. But I do not ever ever ever put my hands on her in anger.
Because putting your hands on a student in anger doesn't work and it's not right and it's not legal.
In my opinion it doesn't matter how much help this woman needed that she didn't get. That matters for her students, but it does not play into the fact that she put her hands on him and said some awfully scary things to him.
It doesn't matter that some think she was a wonderful woman. It doesn't matter to me that I believe this child's mother leaves a little bit to be desired in the mothering department.
It matters that she assaulted this child. Assault. Physical abuse. Emotional abuse. And again I say by not firing her or criminally charging her they are accepting her behavior. And telling children and adults that it's okay to put your hands on a child and to speak to them the way that she did--especially if that child was "horrible".
I lurk around on this conversation daily. Sadly, I believe some of the behavior that teachers and staff are allowed to get away with toward students has become very normalized in America. I've worked in the schools for many years now, and I've seen teachers and school staff do some pretty crappy things to kids. Some of it was out right abusive and that was reported. Some of it was borderline abusive and that was reported.
I've worked with children who have been diagnosed with EBD emotional behavioral disorders and I've worked with children who IMO probably should have that diagnosis who don't. I've worked at schools where the normal culture is to treat a challenging child with negative behavior. And people look the other way. I was in a shared first grade classroom two separate classrooms separated only by bookshelves, when I heard the other classroom teachers screaming at a young girl who was considered "a problem child". She was towering over her and screaming in the child's face. When the teacher in my classroom began to walk over there, I thought "Oh good she's going to intervene de-escalate her friend, help". But she didn't, and then there were two grown women towering over a child and screaming.
I took the child by the hand because as an aid at that time and in that sort of environment the teachers just wanted someone to remove the child from the classroom. I brought her to another room to sit in a break for a few minutes and I went and reported to the principal to the social worker. Nothing was done. I was told that this child have been a problem for a long time.
Mind you the child wasn't fighting or destroying property or anything like that at the moment before she was being screamed at. It was because she wouldn't sit in her desk and refused to take a break.
There are some tough little nuts who come to school. Our job is to get them an education. Maybe we can reach them, maybe we can't. But it takes an entire school and it takes a culture of positivity.
The school I work at this year has been extremely positive environment. I see nothing like it since I began working in schools, and it works. Children are treated with respect. In words and actions.
We have a six-year-old boy who transferred to the school in the middle of the school year, and he is one of those tough nuts to crack. He is angry, he is belligerent, he says and does some awful things. Many of us are frustrated with him. But with every negative interaction from him we counter that with a positive interaction a genuinely intentionally positive interaction. We hold him to our rules and standards. But we do not approach him with negativity even when it seems as if he's pushing for it and testing our limits. And I see a tiny glimmer of hope in his eyes.
I working in autism classroom. We have one seven-year-old girl who should be in a different level classroom in my opinion. We need more help, she needs more help than we can give her, we need more staff. She head butts staff on a regular basis. She hits us and kicksand spits at us. She has slammed her head into my knees so many times that I've come home with bruises.
Do I feel angry at her sometimes? Yes. And that's when I take a break. I ask for help. I do deep breathing. I count to 10 slowly. I walk away. I document. But I do not ever ever ever put my hands on her in anger.
Because putting your hands on a student in anger doesn't work and it's not right and it's not legal.
In my opinion it doesn't matter how much help this woman needed that she didn't get. That matters for her students, but it does not play into the fact that she put her hands on him and said some awfully scary things to him.
It doesn't matter that something she was a wonderful woman. It doesn't matter to me that I believe this child's mother leaves a little bit to be desired in the mothering department.
It matters that she assaulted this child. Assault. Physical abuse. Emotional abuse. And again I say by not firing her or criminally charging her they are accepting her behavior. And telling children and adults that it's okay to put your hands on a child and to speak to them the way that she did--especially if that child was "horrible".
Exceptional post. Thank you!!!
I did long term therapeutic level 3 behavioral fostercare (mostly teenagers) for 9 years. Positive reinforcement is nothing short of miraculous. Simply going out of your way searching for even the smallest thing to praise a child for does wonders. They begin to change, for the better. I love witnessing that spark of hope in their eyes.
Respect...omg...don't get me started!!!mural respect is something most have never experienced before. It's amazing what giving respect accomplishes!
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The number of people supporting or agreeing with either side means absolutely nothing to me.
I am going to stand for what is right.
There was a time in this country when it was okay to own slaves and view them as cattle and it was acceptable and legal to rape and beat your wife. She belonged to her husband.
Children are human beings and deserve protection under the law. They're only little. They're impressionable and they deserve better.
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Who stomps their feet at chihuahuas to upset them???? Who are these people that enjoy watching little defenseless dogs get all worked up and upset???
I have never even heard of such a thing.
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Oops had to correct.
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I have to disagree with you on this one. I'll put myself out there and say that a majority of people have memories of how a certain teacher affected our lives. Some times the teacher has a positive influence on our lives and we credit successes and achievements to that teacher for helping, supporting and mentoring us to help us be successful. However, teachers can also forever affect our lives in a negative way as well. As a young, impressionable child we can be treated so badly that we are actually traumatized and affected for the rest of our lives by the very actions of those teachers who are suppose to teach and nuture us. As adults we can remember positive reinforcement from teachers as an overall good experience, but unfortunately we can clearly remember every single detail of a negative experience and it does affect our lives forever. I've had the unpleasant experience of a "bad" teacher. A teacher with sadistic, painful methods of treating certain students with cruelty and with everlasting results. I can clearly remember every single detail of every single cruel act perpetrated on me by a certain teacher. I was not a problem child. Have always made straight "A"s and was painfully shy and did not act up in class. Loved school in fact. I was humiliated and punished every single day and felt truly worthless. I cried every morning on the bus on the way to school, dreading walking into the schoolroom. Finally I broke down and told my parents about what I was going through. They were very upset and puzzled as to why I would be treated this way by this teacher and asked for me to be moved to another class. Needless to say as soon as this teacher found out that my parents did this, the hell really began. I finally decided to stand up and tell her that I would let my parents know everything that went on in her class. Thank God the school year finally ended.
I'm really sorry that that happened to you and hope when you did tell, the situation got better.
I've seen that dynamic too, and have been a victim of it in a much lesser degree than you suffered. My kids, also, have had teachers who either liked them a LOT inexplicably despite behavior issues, or disliked them a lot inexplicably despite good grades and respectful behavior. I had a 7th grade history teacher call me out into the hallway and reamed me out for about 5 minutes and then sent me to the principals office for reading ahead in my history book. We were to be reading the chapter and I had already finished the chapter, and was reading the next one. Inexplicable and it was gratifying to have the principal shake his head with puzzlement and send me back to school with no consequences. I was always an A student in her class and was too shy to make much noise at all. She just had open disdain for me all year, and I never knew why.
There are teachers who take a liking or a disliking to kids and it sounds like your experience was extreme and needed to be stopped and the teacher fired. In lesser cases it gives us experience in dealing with adversity that will come in handy in future situations of unjust treatment.
Flutterby80
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Each time I read a story involving the mistreatment of a child on WS, or in any news source, there is an involuntary process that happens. I first think about my son. Then I think about my nephew and 2 nieces. The age range of the little ones in my life is 2 years old to 9 years old right now.
I love these little people with all of my heart and soul. When I think of anyone treating them in the ways that some adults treat their little ones, it just wrecks me.
One of my nieces, one of the 2 year olds, is very challenging. She's a handfull. She's defiant. She's also cute as heck and smart as a whip. And fearless. Oh I love her. Chances are, though, that not every adult who meets her will feel the same. And, you know, that's ok. But seriously, I can tell you right now that if a teacher or anyone else treats her like this teacher treated this little guy, they can expect some heat from me.
It is impossible for me to read about children being threatened or abused and not feel outrage and sadness for them.
I really don't have that same issue for those who dish it out. I'm not registering empathy for this teacher. Whatever her issues, she chose to take them out on a very small child. I don't know that I feel she should be arrested, but she sure doesn't belong around children and should be fired. If not fired, somehow barred from teaching. If that means charging her with criminal assault just to let her plead down and agree to resign, so be it.
Just get her the heck away from defenseless children.
I love these little people with all of my heart and soul. When I think of anyone treating them in the ways that some adults treat their little ones, it just wrecks me.
One of my nieces, one of the 2 year olds, is very challenging. She's a handfull. She's defiant. She's also cute as heck and smart as a whip. And fearless. Oh I love her. Chances are, though, that not every adult who meets her will feel the same. And, you know, that's ok. But seriously, I can tell you right now that if a teacher or anyone else treats her like this teacher treated this little guy, they can expect some heat from me.
It is impossible for me to read about children being threatened or abused and not feel outrage and sadness for them.
I really don't have that same issue for those who dish it out. I'm not registering empathy for this teacher. Whatever her issues, she chose to take them out on a very small child. I don't know that I feel she should be arrested, but she sure doesn't belong around children and should be fired. If not fired, somehow barred from teaching. If that means charging her with criminal assault just to let her plead down and agree to resign, so be it.
Just get her the heck away from defenseless children.
Hejlena
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Yes, but a positive, responsive classroom environment as I'm sure you know is so much more than just finding ways to give praise. It's framing every single interaction in a positive way. It's an art and it's a skill.
I've met many good people who believe that dealing with children in a positive way means all rules and expectations have to go out the window, and that's just not true. Positivity is about being kind, clear, and consistent in every single interaction with the children. Kind. Clear. Consistent. And when we have to be firm we do it with kindness.
I've seen teachers and teachers aides just heap negativity on children. Berating them in a way that's sadly socially acceptable. But it does not work.
Without going into specifics about any particular case, how would you feel about a child who repeatedly victimized your child or niece and left bruises and bitemarks and nothing was done to control that child all year and finally the teacher grabbed the child up by the shirt collar and screamed in his face?
Have you ever been in the situation where your child was in a class with a child who was injuring others and nothing was ever effectively done about it by the school system? And every day you sent your child wondering if your kid was going to come home with another bite mark?
Again, I really want to keep that question generic and don't want to go into specifics of any case.
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