OH OH - Brian Shaffer, 27, Columbus, 1 Apr 2006 #5

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Well, I believe that the quoted comment was inaccurate.

Are polygraph tests admissible in court?

Other sources say the same thing. Polygraph results may be allowed in court, if the prosecutor, defendant’s attorney, and defendant all agree, and if the judge approves it. Maybe I lack imagination, but it’s hard for me to visualize a situation where this would happen.


MOO

Yeah, "Allowed", but under the circumstances not likely to happen, and no attorney worth much will roll the dice and agree to it.
I don't think the legality factors too much into Brian, though. It's mostly a tool for Police. So they could wonder why someone wouldn't take an exam.
 
right...and why you think he wasn't found till now if its suicide..or at least his phone ..
?
and what do you think about the (friend ) ..refusing the test and like the brother says ( showing brian in a negative light ) ..you find all of this a little concerning or its just a red herring..

I suspect that Clint refused a lie detector test and has stayed away from the situation because he has knowledge of illegal activities that were occurring that night (e.g. drugs) but has no idea what ultimately happened to Brian.

I also suspect that Clint shared what he knows with his attorney (re: illegal activities) and was advised against speaking further with law enforcement.
 
I would hope, that if he did know of something like that he and his attorney would be able to work out some kind of immunity proposition that would help lead to what happened to Brian.
Could help pinpoint the where, who, what, why, when of the situation.
I just hope it isn't that, because if it is then it is probably way too late now to do anything about it.

I've always hoped, and hoped beyond hope, that Brian simply told "the friend" that he was taking off and not to tell anyone, at all. And the friend kept the promise.
 
I would hope, that if he did know of something like that he and his attorney would be able to work out some kind of immunity proposition that would help lead to what happened to Brian.
Could help pinpoint the where, who, what, why, when of the situation.
I just hope it isn't that, because if it is then it is probably way too late now to do anything about it.

I've always hoped, and hoped beyond hope, that Brian simply told "the friend" that he was taking off and not to tell anyone, at all. And the friend kept the promise.
thats very unlikely
first there were two of them there not just the friend...
most important..this guy was treated like a semi suspect by those close to the case...and he was angry at brian ...its not like they were friends for real >>
also this voluntary disappearance doesn't work in any given scenario...while his buddies reported he had disappeared ..we know he didnt at first..he was leaving the girls heading towards the entrance of the bar..so he planning to vanish but meanwhile chatting to women and going back to the bar while its closing ???!
non of this makes sense
there has been talk that the two were having arguments both in the bar and in the weeks leading to the disappearance...but even that could be nothing
 
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I would hope, that if he did know of something like that he and his attorney would be able to work out some kind of immunity proposition that would help lead to what happened to Brian.
Could help pinpoint the where, who, what, why, when of the situation.
I just hope it isn't that, because if it is then it is probably way too late now to do anything about it.

I've always hoped, and hoped beyond hope, that Brian simply told "the friend" that he was taking off and not to tell anyone, at all. And the friend kept the promise.
No way.
Brian and Clint weren't that close; they didn't even seem to like each other all that much.

I'm certain that Clint refused a lie detector test because EVERY attorney advises EVERY client not to take a lie detector test. They are pseudoscience and provide no benefit whatsoever to whomever takes one. I would never take one under any circumstances; no one with a least half a properly functioning brain would take one, imho.
 
This is one of the two cases that have fascinated me for years. I've spent hours upon hours studying each individual theory that I've seen, trying to figure out the likelihood of each happening. This is one of the rare cases where there are numerous theories that could be correct, but at the same time, you can poke holes in all of them. There is one that I keep coming back to though.

I believe Brian wanted to ditch Clint and Meredith so he left to meet with someone for a party/and or to buy drugs. There are ways he could have gotten out without being detected by cameras. The person he planned to meet up with could have been someone he had met earlier that night, an employee at the UTS, or someone he already knew. He leaves and makes his way to Wendy's. He gets into the car with this person/persons and they head off to the party. Once at the party, multiple things could have happened:

- Brian wanted to buy drugs and got into a disagreement about the price or product
- He could have been flirting with a woman whose boyfriend was there and took exception
- Drug overdose
- Alcohol poisoning

Regarding the first two, it seems that Brian had a tendency to mouth off and flirt. If either of those happened, it's possible that he was stabbed or got into a fight and was punched/pushed and fell and hit his head.

Regarding the second two, if he were to die from drugs or alcohol, the people involved are more likely to cover it up than call the police for fear of being busted for drugs.

Regarding Clint, it's possible that the reason for the argument and his refusal to comment about Brian is due to drugs. We know Clint is in a profession that has a no-tolerance policy with drugs. Perhaps he knew Brian planned to mess around with them that night and wanted nothing to do with it or tried to talk Brian out of it.

Just for fun, I made a list with all the theories I've seen and ordered them in the likelihood I believe they could have happened. In my opinion:
1-4: very good chance it was one of these. I lean toward 1 or 2.
5-7: possible, but unlikely
8-11: 0% chance it was one of these, but I'll include them because you just never know

1. Gets a ride at Wendy's/goes to a party and something happens. Just like #2, his body could have been thrown in a dumpster after this.

2. Dumpster. He could have fallen in. He could have thought it was a good place for a nap. Or it's possible he met foul play from someone and was thrown in a dumpster.

3. Altercation/accident with an employee. The first time I heard this, I scoffed at it. But as time goes on, I see how it could be possible. Brian could have gotten into an argument with an employee and things go south. The person's girlfriend could have been there and seen Brian flirting with her. He could have been doing drugs with Brian and something happened. The employee would know how to get Brian out later that morning to the trash compactor located at the back door exit on the 1st floor. And then you have the fact that the camera was possibly tampered with. The camera was supposed to turn in a certain direction and then it switched to manual mode. That is VERY convenient timing. Almost like the person/persons involved knew how to tamper with it.

4. Started a new life.

5. Suicide.

6. Fell into the construction site.

7. Fell into a river.

8. Clint was directly involved with his death.

9. Wanted to play an April Fool's joke and got stuck somewhere in the building.

10. Band members killed him and his body was smuggled out with the band equipment.

11. Smiley face killer.
 
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This is one of the two cases that have fascinated me for years. I've spent hours upon hours studying each individual theory that I've seen, trying to figure out the likelihood of each happening. This is one of the rare cases where there are numerous theories that could be correct, but at the same time, you can poke holes in all of them. There is one that I keep coming back to though.

I believe Brian wanted to ditch Clint and Meredith so he left to meet with someone for a party/and or to buy drugs. There are ways he could have gotten out without being detected by cameras. The person he planned to meet up with could have been someone he had met earlier that night, an employee at the UTS, or someone he already knew. He leaves and makes his way to Wendy's. He gets into the car with this person/persons and they head off to the party. Once at the party, multiple things could have happened:

- Brian wanted to buy drugs and got into a disagreement about the price or product
- He could have been flirting with a woman whose boyfriend was there and took exception
- Drug overdose
- Alcohol poisoning
Welcome to Ws @WhoWasFeel, great post!
Regarding the first two, it seems that Brian had a tendency to mouth off and flirt. If either of those happened, it's possible that he was stabbed or got into a fight and was punched/pushed and fell and hit his head.

Regarding the second two, if he were to die from drugs or alcohol, the people involved are more likely to cover it up than call the police for fear of being busted for drugs.

Regarding Clint, it's possible that the reason for the argument and his refusal to comment about Brian is due to drugs. We know Clint is in a profession that has a no-tolerance policy with drugs. Perhaps he knew Brian planned to mess around with them that night and wanted nothing to do with it or tried to talk Brian out of it.

Just for fun, I made a list with all the theories I've seen and ordered them in the likelihood I believe they could have happened. In my opinion:
1-4: very good chance it was one of these. I lean toward 1 or 2.
5-7: possible, but unlikely
8-11: 0% chance it was one of these, but I'll include them because you just never know

1. Gets a ride at Wendy's/goes to a party and something happens. Just like #2, his body could have been thrown in a dumpster after this.

2. Dumpster. He could have fallen in. He could have thought it was a good place for a nap. Or it's possible he met foul play from someone and was thrown in a dumpster.

3. Altercation/accident with an employee. The first time I heard this, I scoffed at it. But as time goes on, I see how it could be possible. Brian could have gotten into an argument with an employee and things go south. The person's girlfriend could have been there and seen Brian flirting with her. He could have been doing drugs with Brian and something happened. The employee would know how to get Brian out later that morning to the trash compactor located at the back door exit on the 1st floor. And then you have the fact that the camera was possibly tampered with. The camera was supposed to turn in a certain direction and then it switched to manual mode. That is VERY convenient timing. Almost like the person/persons involved knew how to tamper with it.

4. Started a new life.

5. Suicide.

6. Fell into the construction site.

7. Fell into a river.

8. Clint was directly involved with his death.

9. Wanted to play an April Fool's joke and got stuck somewhere in the building.

10. Band members killed him and his body was smuggled out with the band equipment.

11. Smiley face killer.
Welcome to Ws @WhoWasFeel, great post!
 
This is one of the two cases that have fascinated me for years. I've spent hours upon hours studying each individual theory that I've seen, trying to figure out the likelihood of each happening. This is one of the rare cases where there are numerous theories that could be correct, but at the same time, you can poke holes in all of them. There is one that I keep coming back to though.

I believe Brian wanted to ditch Clint and Meredith so he left to meet with someone for a party/and or to buy drugs. There are ways he could have gotten out without being detected by cameras. The person he planned to meet up with could have been someone he had met earlier that night, an employee at the UTS, or someone he already knew. He leaves and makes his way to Wendy's. He gets into the car with this person/persons and they head off to the party. Once at the party, multiple things could have happened:

- Brian wanted to buy drugs and got into a disagreement about the price or product
- He could have been flirting with a woman whose boyfriend was there and took exception
- Drug overdose
- Alcohol poisoning

Regarding the first two, it seems that Brian had a tendency to mouth off and flirt. If either of those happened, it's possible that he was stabbed or got into a fight and was punched/pushed and fell and hit his head.

Regarding the second two, if he were to die from drugs or alcohol, the people involved are more likely to cover it up than call the police for fear of being busted for drugs.

Regarding Clint, it's possible that the reason for the argument and his refusal to comment about Brian is due to drugs. We know Clint is in a profession that has a no-tolerance policy with drugs. Perhaps he knew Brian planned to mess around with them that night and wanted nothing to do with it or tried to talk Brian out of it.

Just for fun, I made a list with all the theories I've seen and ordered them in the likelihood I believe they could have happened. In my opinion:
1-4: very good chance it was one of these. I lean toward 1 or 2.
5-7: possible, but unlikely
8-11: 0% chance it was one of these, but I'll include them because you just never know

1. Gets a ride at Wendy's/goes to a party and something happens. Just like #2, his body could have been thrown in a dumpster after this.

2. Dumpster. He could have fallen in. He could have thought it was a good place for a nap. Or it's possible he met foul play from someone and was thrown in a dumpster.

3. Altercation/accident with an employee. The first time I heard this, I scoffed at it. But as time goes on, I see how it could be possible. Brian could have gotten into an argument with an employee and things go south. The person's girlfriend could have been there and seen Brian flirting with her. He could have been doing drugs with Brian and something happened. The employee would know how to get Brian out later that morning to the trash compactor located at the back door exit on the 1st floor. And then you have the fact that the camera was possibly tampered with. The camera was supposed to turn in a certain direction and then it switched to manual mode. That is VERY convenient timing. Almost like the person/persons involved knew how to tamper with it.

4. Started a new life.

5. Suicide.

6. Fell into the construction site.

7. Fell into a river.

8. Clint was directly involved with his death.

9. Wanted to play an April Fool's joke and got stuck somewhere in the building.

10. Band members killed him and his body was smuggled out with the band equipment.

11. Smiley face killer.
You have a good breakdown of the case—and I'm glad you put Smiley Face Killer at no. 11, because the Smiley Face Killer only exists in people's overactive imaginations.

You have a few scenarios related to Brian's ending up in a dumpster sort of lumped together under no. 2, though. I would say that his having met with foul play and having been tossed in a dumpster is much more likely than his having decided to take a nap in one, which I agree is not impossible, nevertheless. I'm not sure how he would have fallen into one, but I guess that's possible, too.

You may be falling prey to wishful think in terms of putting "Started a new life" at no. 4. I would put that at no. 10, just slightly above the make-believe Smiley Face Killer.
 
for ppl familiar with the area ..would you agree with the following
1984 ..is that an exaggeration or accurate
Still, security cameras from nearby bars — Sloppy Donkey, Mad Mex, Lucky’s Stout House — would have caught him when he fled the building. Somehow, he evaded surveillance in a city with more closed-circuit television than Cleveland, Cincinnati and Toledo combined. Brian had disappeared in Ohio’s most-watched metropolis, where it’s always 1984

A Guy Walks Into a Bar…and Is Never Seen Again


also

is there a confirmation on the phone ringing...that it was really a glitch ? cause in places you hear its been confirmed being that and places i just dont know
 
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You have a good breakdown of the case—and I'm glad you put Smiley Face Killer at no. 11, because the Smiley Face Killer only exists in people's overactive imaginations.

You have a few scenarios related to Brian's ending up in a dumpster sort of lumped together under no. 2, though. I would say that his having met with foul play and having been tossed in a dumpster is much more likely than his having decided to take a nap in one, which I agree is not impossible, nevertheless. I'm not sure how he would have fallen into one, but I guess that's possible, too.

You may be falling prey to wishful think in terms of putting "Started a new life" at no. 4. I would put that at no. 10, just slightly above the make-believe Smiley Face Killer.
Now that I've had some sleep and had a chance to reread my post, #2 is sort of lumped together and there are definitely some things that didn't come out right! Had been up for over 30 hours due to a bad work schedule this weekend, so apologies for that.

The reason I put "started a new life" at #4 is because of the attorney comments and hearing that some of the people familiar with the case think that's a possibility. But I strongly lean toward it being one of the first two. I believe something happened at a party afterward, or that something happened shortly after he left the building and his body ended up in a dumpster. #3 and #4 are more longshots, and #5-11 are extreme longshots. Of course, that's all just my opinion and I love reading all the different theories.
 
Now that I've had some sleep and had a chance to reread my post, #2 is sort of lumped together and there are definitely some things that didn't come out right! Had been up for over 30 hours due to a bad work schedule this weekend, so apologies for that.

The reason I put "started a new life" at #4 is because of the attorney comments and hearing that some of the people familiar with the case think that's a possibility. But I strongly lean toward it being one of the first two. I believe something happened at a party afterward, or that something happened shortly after he left the building and his body ended up in a dumpster. #3 and #4 are more longshots, and #5-11 are extreme longshots. Of course, that's all just my opinion and I love reading all the different theories.
Generally speaking, most people aren't very good at keeping secrets. That's the reason why I question whether something could have happened at a party. If something happened to Brian while he was with more than a couple of people, then I think that someone would have talked by now. Your basic scenario makes more sense to me if Brian had been with only one other person or perhaps two other people.

I have a couple of college degrees and have spent my share of time in college towns, so I know what college towns are like. If Brian had made it back to his apartment that night, someone would have seen or heard him. Some students would have still been up and about regardless of the hour. Therefore I am certain that something happened to Brian soon after he was last captured on video.

There's been a lot of talk about ways that Brian could have exited the building without being seen on camera, but the normal way to leave would have been by going down the escalator, and we know that he didn't do that. Why not? Was he trying to dodge Clint and Meredith? I think that he could have done that without going through the construction area; he could have simply taken the escalator down before Clint and Meredith left the bar.

I think that he had a specific purpose for going through the construction area, but I don't know what it was.
a. Maybe he had to take a leak.
b. Maybe he felt sick and thought that he might have to vomit.
c. Maybe he thought he could catch up with the band.
d. Maybe he thought that he could catch up with Amber and Brightan before they reached the parking garage.
e. Maybe he had made arrangements to meet someone in the construction area or adjacent to it (near Wendy's).
f. Maybe it was simply a shortcut, albeit an odd one.

This is how I rank my top five scenarios, from least likely to most likely.

5. Brian was hiding depression over the death of his mother and chose to take his own life in a way that would guarantee that he wouldn't be found. I see this as possible but highly unlikely considering the timing and considering Brian's demeanor on the night he disappeared.

4. Brian stumbled upon some kind of illegal activity in the construction area and was killed and then disposed of.

3. Brian met up with someone and died in the other person's residence, and his death was concealed by that person because he or she had some culpability.

2. Brian started to walk home and some kind of conflict arose that ended with Brian's murder. The different possibilities for how that could have occurred are legion, but we know that Brian had a tendency to mouth off at people. We also know that his route home could have taken him through some bad neighborhoods; he may have tried to fight off a mugger. A hate crime is a possibility, too. Most street criminals don't bother with disposing of bodies, but it might have been easy to toss Brian into a dumpster.

1. Brian had a freak accident in the construction area and for some odd reason his body wasn't found. Dogs are not infallible, and his body could have been concealed during any undocumented construction work that occurred before the alarm was raised. We haven't heard from any of the workers or supervisors of the construction area; why is that?
 
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ok so I found the clip where he seen outside the bar...but is that all ? its barely 7 seconds ...but from i see ..there is no other way except that he headed back in..
and is the time certain...what is the eaxct time window between this last footage and when the mates left and why we haven't seen the footage where they left..
why is it that we don't have certain facts about this case
...
Ive also just heard the most absurd podcast...anybody puts anything on youtube and calls it a podcast..the presenter was joking all the time and the theory is that he was followed by a serial killer from another bar
jesus
 
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ok so I found the clip where he seen outside the bar...but is that all ? its barely 7 seconds ...but from i see ..there is no other way except that he headed back in..
and is the time certain...what is the eaxct time window between this last footage and when the mates left and why we haven't seen the footage where they left..
why is it that we don't have certain facts about this case
...
Ive also just heard the most absurd podcast...anybody puts anything on youtube and calls it a podcast..the presenter was joking all the time and the theory is that he was followed by a serial killer from another bar
jesus
To be clear, the clip shows him outside the bar but still on the second floor inside the complex. It is almost certain that he did not go back into the bar; Clint and Meredith would have seen him. Near the area where he was standing, off camera, there was a beige door that led to a hallway, and it is thought that he went through that door. From that hallway, he could have gone down to the lower level and accessed the construction area. (There were some university offices on the other side of that hallway, but those would have been closed and securely locked—inaccessible in other words.)
 
To be clear, the clip shows him outside the bar but still on the second floor inside the complex. It is almost certain that he did not go back into the bar; Clint and Meredith would have seen him. Near the area where he was standing, off camera, there was a beige door that led to a hallway, and it is thought that he went through that door. From that hallway, he could have gone down to the lower level and accessed the construction area. (There were some university offices on the other side of that hallway, but those would have been closed and securely locked—inaccessible in other words.)
but the majority assumes he went back ...what you say about the necessity of him meeting the buddies is true and what i have been debating..however everything is shrouded in mystery since I ve not seen the bar.. i dont know how big it is and where those buddies were and most importantly ( if they are telling the truth )..
but couldn't the two women solve this ..didnt they say if he went back or not ? anybody has their story ..i heard one of them was on a podcast
 
but the majority assumes he went back ...what you say about the necessity of him meeting the buddies is true and what i have been debating..however everything is shrouded in mystery since I ve not seen the bar.. i dont know how big it is and where those buddies were and most importantly ( if they are telling the truth )..
but couldn't the two women solve this ..didnt they say if he went back or not ? anybody has their story ..i heard one of them was on a podcast
I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "the majority"; I wouldn't say that the majority of Websleuths users think that Brian went back into the bar. I haven't taken a poll or anything like that, but I haven't seen that assumption made too often.
 
No way.
Brian and Clint weren't that close; they didn't even seem to like each other all that much.

I'm certain that Clint refused a lie detector test because EVERY attorney advises EVERY client not to take a lie detector test. They are pseudoscience and provide no benefit whatsoever to whomever takes one. I would never take one under any circumstances; no one with a least half a properly functioning brain would take one, imho.

Well, like I said: just my hope, really. It would be the outcome where Brian is alive and just wanted to get away.
As for polygraphs. Let's be a little nice here :D
Randy took one. As did some others related to the case.
A lot of people who have nothing to do with the situation (crime wise) will take it just to get it done and out of the way.
It's why I've been a little suspicious that one person did not take it. Though I would definitely understand if the police were starting to suggest he had something to do with it.

But the fact that someone who was with Brian the night he vanished got a lawyer is probably not the best sign. Also, so odd that the people with him didn't look for him very long. I don't know. Heck. That guy the police were looking for took a few trips up and down the escalator. But Brian's people didn't? That's even strange. Unless there was some kind of discussion before hand that they would part ways. <modsnip: discussing rumors is not allowed>

The serious questions is and always will be: how did Brian get out? And what cameras were in the immediate area?
Even that is sometimes a gamble. Like the plaza cameras that missed Brian. Turns out one of the operators was creeping on some girls with the camera. How many of the cameras around the area are operated by a human? How many are still cameras?
 
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Well, like I said: just my hope, really. It would be the outcome where Brian is alive and just wanted to get away.
As for polygraphs. Let's be a little nice here :D
Randy took one. As did some others related to the case.
A lot of people who have nothing to do with the situation (crime wise) will take it just to get it done and out of the way.
It's why I've been a little suspicious that one person did not take it. Though I would definitely understand if the police were starting to suggest he had something to do with it.

But the fact that someone who was with Brian the night he vanished got a lawyer is probably not the best sign. Also, so odd that the people with him didn't look for him very long. I don't know. Heck. That guy the police were looking for took a few trips up and down the escalator. But Brian's people didn't? That's even strange. Unless there was some kind of discussion before hand that they would part ways. <modsnip: discussing rumors is not allowed>

The serious questions is and always will be: how did Brian get out? And what cameras were in the immediate area?
Even that is sometimes a gamble. Like the plaza cameras that missed Brian. Turns out one of the operators was creeping on some girls with the camera. How many of the cameras around the area are operated by a human? How many are still cameras?

Clint sounds like a bad friend, but we don’t truly know how hard the police/investigators pursued him. He probably got spooked and did what any reasonably intelligent person would do; get a lawyer. I don’t view it as being that suspicious or weird at all. We will never know the true story because his attorney will say X and the police will say Y.
 
That is a pretty good summary of it.
If C was trying to get with the girl they were out with that night, could he have told Brian to find his own way home. Thought it was only a short walk to Brian's apt.
Then acts like he is really trying to find Brian but takes off with the girl, just the two of them.?
Has that been discussed already?
 
That is a pretty good summary of it.
If C was trying to get with the girl they were out with that night, could he have told Brian to find his own way home. Thought it was only a short walk to Brian's apt.
Then acts like he is really trying to find Brian but takes off with the girl, just the two of them.?
Has that been discussed already?

Always wondered how/why it was that Clint picked up Brian from his apartment to go to the bars, but Meredith drove Clint from Tuna to the place Meredith was housesitting?

Meredith picking up the two drunk dudes obviously makes sense, but what if Brian was making waves with Clint’s friendzone (?) girl and an argument ensued? The coincidence of them promptly leaving the campus area + Brian disappearing just intensifies.
 
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