OH OH - Brian Shaffer, 27, Columbus, 1 April 2006 - #2

[Brainy]

BBM- I thought that, too, that if I didn't do anything I wouldn't be concerned about a conviction, but I was never more wrong.

I'd share my story of being falsely accused of a crime and nearly having my life ruined, and being interrogated by the police for something I didn't do, but I know it won't make a hill of beans. Those of you who have never been in the hot seat personally, will never understand how precious the right to remain silent & protecting yourself from self incrimination is. I'm not even going to waste my time trying to convince you. Suffice to say, should you find yourself a victim of circumstance, you'll learn first hand.

Yeah, we get your point. It really isn't about convincing anyone about anything. In the end, it is a personal choice. I know I would not remain silent if my loved one or a friend was in danger and I did nothing to stand up for them. I could not just go on with my life feeling that I saved my own so people would think good of me. Yes, it's true that I have not personally been in such a circumstance and it is easy to just feel that Clint guilty because he looks guilty, however, personally, I do have a difficult time relating of how he could have just plain refused to take the polygraph, because again, I can't understand that he was all concerned about himself, own safety while his friend just vanished. It just makes me sad.

Frankly, I don't think he truly cared about Brian. His behavior of distancing himself from his past only suggests that he never had any intentions of looking for Brian, speaking out or preserving his memory in some way.


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[Alleykins]

There might have been a blind spot. Perhaps Brian eluded detection. The craggy building that housed the Ugly Tuna was under construction, and a temporary freight elevator escaped surveillance. Maybe Brian came down the rusty service ladder that traversed the shaft, resting for a few seconds on each rung. Maybe someone waited for him at the bottom, making sure he didn’t slip. Still, security cameras from nearby bars — Sloppy Donkey, Mad Mex, Lucky’s Stout House — would have caught him when he fled the building. Somehow, he evaded surveillance in a city with more closed-circuit television than Cleveland, Cincinnati and Toledo combined. Brian had disappeared in Ohio’s most-watched metropolis, where it’s always 1984.]

(RBBM)
From: https://melmagazine.com/a-guy-walks-into-a-bar-53c784e7369b#.b8keutmae

 

[Deleted member 155000]

The articles definitely explore all the possibilities and the police, too, seemed to have been extremely thorough. But these articles are all we have to go on 10 years later, and they've been discussed so many times. The case seems stuck in the cold files until someone provides more information.


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[Brainy]

The articles definitely explore all the possibilities and the police, too, seemed to have been extremely thorough. But these articles are all we have to go on 10 years later, and they've been discussed so many times. The case seems stuck in the cold files until someone provides more information.


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Yes, unfortunately that's true. I do believe someone knows more, and they are not coming forward because they are just way too concerned about what others may think, things like reputation are far more important to them. What astounds me is people are so ready to walk away while the memory of a young man carries an air of sadness, frustration, confusion and continues lacking closure.

I wish I could personally do something to help, and I don't like feeling helpless and useless.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

This long after the fact, it would be hard to recover any additional information. I know police questioned the restaurant staff, band, the two girls, the guy on the elevator, Clint and Meredith. I don't know if they asked anyone who was at the restaurant to come in and describe the setting that night...or to submit any pics they may have taken on that night. Regardless, it'd be a miracle to track down any of that now.


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[neesaki]

Yeah, we get your point. It really isn't about convincing anyone about anything. In the end, it is a personal choice. I know I would not remain silent if my loved one or a friend was in danger and I did nothing to stand up for them. I could not just go on with my life feeling that I saved my own so people would think good of me. Yes, it's true that I have not personally been in such a circumstance and it is easy to just feel that Clint guilty because he looks guilty, however, personally, I do have a difficult time relating of how he could have just plain refused to take the polygraph, because again, I can't understand that he was all concerned about himself, own safety while his friend just vanished. It just makes me sad.

Frankly, I don't think he truly cared about Brian. His behavior of distancing himself from his past only suggests that he never had any intentions of looking for Brian, speaking out or preserving his memory in some way.


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I so agree.... The more I think about it, real, True Friendships are hard to come by, they're actually very hard to come by. And true friends will stand up for and stand by their friends. They won't let them down, no matter what. This "revelation" has finally lead me to this conclusion.... Clint's friendship with Brian was nothing more than superficial. If I am correct, this would most probably make it not much of a problem for him to do him harm or, to allow someone else to do him harm, or, to cover up any such scenario... whether it had to do with a drug deal gone bad, or something much worse. Just let your imagination go, anything could have happened, regardless, since he really wasn't a true "friend" , he would have no problem covering up anything, or witholding evidence from LE. Especially, if he has character issues himself. And, btw, regarding the character issues, I say that with nothing but pure theory and dedicated speculation. JMO

 

[JaimeSommers]

What I'm also still curious about, as mentioned before, is what Brian was saying to those 2 girls. In the dateline video, Clint says that Brian was "doing his usual thing" and talking to those girls. Does 'usual thing' mean just going up to people and being social? Or did he mean that Brian had a history of being flirty with girls? That would seem rather strange since he was so in love with Alexis and was supposedly going to be proposing to her in Florida days later. Maybe Clint was trying to cover infidelity on Brian's part, or maybe he knew that Brian was unfaithful and was blackmailing him? Though kind of a stretch, since that would seem more like Brian making Clint disappear instead. I also don't believe Clint was directly involved, but I can't shake the suspicion that he knows more about Brian than he made public. Or Perhaps Brian went to meet a girl, ran into trouble with her bf and Clint just kept quiet as to not hurt Alexis? As I mentioned earlier in the thread, Brian and Clint went to NYC together so they had to be pretty close plus they were former roommates.

Or perhaps an attempt to discredit Brian and/or create a false scenario to divert investigator attention elsewhere?

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[Satch]

I also don't believe Clint was directly involved, but I can't shake the suspicion that he knows more about Brian than he made public.

Do you believe that Clint knows what happened to Brian?

Satch

 

[Deleted member 155000]

Do you believe that Clint knows what happened to Brian?

Satch

There's no way to know for sure. The way he has distanced himself from the case is certainly curious. I just think Clint should provide whatever information he does have to police, no matter how insignificant, as sometimes new details can create new connections for detectives. Clint's lawyer also indicated he believed Brian should come forward--which raises the question about whether Clint thought Brian had left on his own or perhaps it was a deflection.


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[MatthewTyler]

Do you believe that Clint knows what happened to Brian?

Satch

I suspect Clint might know about a lifestyle Brian had that MAY have led to his disappearance (maybe drug deal gone bad, infidelity, etc) but I don't believe he actually knows what went down that night for sure, no.

 

[Alleykins]

This is just my opinion because I'm just stymied (as I'm sure a lot of us are!), but if we take what we do know from the media, like Brian wasn't seen on any of the video footage leaving the Ugly Tuna, he is not seen on neighboring business's videos nearby leaving the area, and investigators scoured hours of that footage, it would seem he didn't leave the building. We also know that investigators searched the building and found not trace of him inside.
So, let me ask this. Is there any type of band equipment or musical instrument case that he could have fit inside and stowed away in without anyone seeing or knowing?
Because if they did a thorough job searching in the building and he wasn't found inside, he had to get out some how without being recorded. Unless he was somehow able to access the roof and do a Spiderman or Superman types of maneuvers over the tops of buildings, I can't think of anyway he could get out without being seen on at least one of the cameras in the area, but that's just me.

 

[Alleykins]

This long after the fact, it would be hard to recover any additional information. I know police questioned the restaurant staff, band, the two girls, the guy on the elevator, Clint and Meredith. I don't know if they asked anyone who was at the restaurant to come in and describe the setting that night...or to submit any pics they may have taken on that night. Regardless, it'd be a miracle to track down any of that now.
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Miracles do happen. I mean this in a good way. There may be folks still around who were there that night.
FWIW, My mother worked at the same bar for over 20 years, along with her good friend, and it had the same owners for about 40 years. My mom has passed, but her friend and the owners are still alive. You'd be surprised how many folks and possible pictures they may be able to track down with a little perseverance. You just never know, in this case.
To give you an example, the owner of the land in Allenstown where the victims were dumped didn't mention the suspect in 1985 or 2000 when each barrel were uncovered. Once LE uncovered the suspects name and reinterviewed the landowner last year, all of a sudden, he recalled him and how he used to dump stuff on his property. Finding the barrels didn't ring a bell 30 & 15 years ago, but when presented with new facts, all of a sudden, he remembers the guy, 31 years later. . . .

 

[Deleted member 155000]

This is just my opinion because I'm just stymied (as I'm sure a lot of us are!), but if we take what we do know from the media, like Brian wasn't seen on any of the video footage leaving the Ugly Tuna, he is not seen on neighboring business's videos nearby leaving the area, and investigators scoured hours of that footage, it would seem he didn't leave the building. We also know that investigators searched the building and found not trace of him inside.
So, let me ask this. Is there any type of band equipment or musical instrument case that he could have fit inside and stowed away in without anyone seeing or knowing?
Because if they did a thorough job searching in the building and he wasn't found inside, he had to get out some how without being recorded. Unless he was somehow able to access the roof and do a Spiderman or Superman types of maneuvers over the tops of buildings, I can't think of anyway he could get out without being seen on at least one of the cameras in the area, but that's just me.

Yeah, if you check back in the threads, this is discussed. The police did look into the. And and staff but didn't find any reason to be suspicious.

Earlier on, it was contemplated that a young, athletic guy could hop the balcony and--in a college town where kids do crazy things--might not attract a whole lot of interest.

Good ideas.


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[Deleted member 155000]

Miracles do happen. I mean this in a good way. There may be folks still around who were there that night.
FWIW, My mother worked at the same bar for over 20 years, along with her good friend, and it had the same owners for about 40 years. My mom has passed, but her friend and the owners are still alive. You'd be surprised how many folks and possible pictures they may be able to track down with a little perseverance. You just never know, in this case.
To give you an example, the owner of the land in Allenstown where the victims were dumped didn't mention the suspect in 1985 or 2000 when each barrel were uncovered. Once LE uncovered the suspects name and reinterviewed the landowner last year, all of a sudden, he recalled him and how he used to dump stuff on his property. Finding the barrels didn't ring a bell 30 & 15 years ago, but when presented with new facts, all of a sudden, he remembers the guy, 31 years later. . . .

Let's hope something surfaces. I know detectives have revisited the case often. It would be great if new testimony or evidence arose or some new connection jumped out to them. And obviously it'd be great if someone who knows more came forward too.


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[Brainy]

I don't think we will ever find out what happened to Brian. Not to sound pessimistic, I don't think anyone will ever come forward. If his "close" friend distanced himself so much, then why should we count on a stranger to come forward? I don't think Brian is alive or he left on his own accord. What makes it really sad is the uncertainty and lack of closure.


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[Deleted member 155000]

I don't think we will ever find out what happened to Brian. Not to sound pessimistic, I don't think anyone will ever come forward. If his "close" friend distanced himself so much, then why should we count on a stranger to cone forward? I don't think Brian is alive or he left on his own accord. What makes it really sad is the uncertainty and lack of closure.


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I think you're right. Occasionally, someone does confess to an earlier crime later in life--when they are older and wiser or near death. Or sometimes, after the person involved dies, a relative comes forward. But that is pretty rare.

But, I always hold hope, because I know whoever was involved still carries with them the burden of whatever happens. I imagine most days don't pass without them thinking about it. If they keep wrestling with it, or if they come across people who still care, there's a small chance they could still be urged to do the right thing.


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[ekardh]

I also agree that the car accident theory is implausible as well. The problem with this case is that a lot of people put too much emphasis and importance on the fact that he wasn't on camera. Strange, yes, but I don't believe that it's the be all end all that he wasn't seen. Could a camera have simply not picked him up? Could the back exit camera have just malfunctioned and thus didn't zoom in on him? Unlikely, but not impossible. The whole reason this case blew up was because of the cameras. If you take that out of the equation it becomes basically any other missing person case. He could have been abducted after leaving the bar, he could have gone elsewhere and died of accidental drug overdose and was covered-up, he could have been abducted by aliens. Point being that once you account for the fact that Brian MAY have gotten out of the bar, it opens the door to other possibilities.

You're right, my opinion is based on the premise that the cameras were fully operational and didn't miss Brian that night.

As for the construction site, without knowing how large the area was and what it looked like, I don't think it can be ruled out. Theoretically, there could all manner of nooks and crannies that an unsuspecting victim could fall into. And no, I don't believe that the workmen deliberately covered up his death. With all the rapid construction going on, they simply buried over him.

 

[MatthewTyler]

This is just my opinion because I'm just stymied (as I'm sure a lot of us are!), but if we take what we do know from the media, like Brian wasn't seen on any of the video footage leaving the Ugly Tuna, he is not seen on neighboring business's videos nearby leaving the area, and investigators scoured hours of that footage, it would seem he didn't leave the building. We also know that investigators searched the building and found not trace of him inside.
So, let me ask this. Is there any type of band equipment or musical instrument case that he could have fit inside and stowed away in without anyone seeing or knowing?
Because if they did a thorough job searching in the building and he wasn't found inside, he had to get out some how without being recorded. Unless he was somehow able to access the roof and do a Spiderman or Superman types of maneuvers over the tops of buildings, I can't think of anyway he could get out without being seen on at least one of the cameras in the area, but that's just me.

This all comes down to intent. Knowing whether or not Brian left on his own accord would make it easier to come up with an idea of how he left the bar. For example, if he purposely wanted to leave without being seen, then I definitely would believe that he would jump from the balcony or roof. If he didn't go willingly or even alive for that matter, then I would venture more on the theory of him being in an instrument case

 

[Deleted member 155000]

This all comes down to intent. Knowing whether or not Brian left on his own accord would make it easier to come up with an idea of how he left the bar. For example, if he purposely wanted to leave without being seen, then I definitely would believe that he would jump from the balcony or roof. If he didn't go willingly or even alive for that matter, then I would venture more on the theory of him being in an instrument case

That's my conclusion as well. If he wanted to evade cameras, he could find a way. The time frame is slim, however, for him to disappear without being seen by closing staff or the band or Clint and Meredith (if their testimony is true).

But if he was assaulted or taken/helped out against his will? Well then based on the thoroughness of police who spoke about investigating the scene, I believe he was probably taken from the building under camouflage or after hours or by someone in house who knew how to avoid detection.

It takes some time to go back through all the interviews--on camera and newspaper--with officers assigned to this case. But after watching and reading so many myself, I am convinced police were able to look directly at the construction scene Monday morning and it was their strong opinion that it would've been very difficult for him to access the construction site and there was no place he could be undetected or concealed there.

The one officer became very devoted to the case and became friends with Brian's dad. I believe that his firsthand accounting of the police work are probably very reliable.


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[MatthewTyler]

That's my conclusion as well. If he wanted to evade cameras, he could find a way. The time frame is slim, however, for him to disappear without being seen by closing staff or the band or Clint and Meredith (if their testimony is true). Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The timeframe is also what is so frustrating about this case. He's alive and well at 1:55 and then all of a sudden before 2:30 he's in oblivion. This is why I think he may possibly have gotten out of the bar (undetected) and went elsewhere. That would open up the timeframe significantly for whatever happened to happen. The other option I was thinking also, and I believe it's been mentioned before, is if he was somehow lured in the kitchen, killed, kept there and taken out in a trash bag and driven elsewhere the next day. The police said there was no blood found inside the bar anywhere so if they did take him out, I think it might have been in one piece. At least until they left the bar anyway