OH - Chanan Palmer, 31, & 4 kids killed in arson fire, Greenville, 16 Sept 2007

[JBean]

What is your take on the brainscan evidence then? The "organic" component? It isn't all nurture, it is *also* nature.

I agree with you here.

 

[KatK]

KatK, may I suggest that you temporarily delete the links which JBean opened in an effort to save others from accidentally opening them and possibly experiencing the same problem?

Embedding links in text is a handy tool, but I prefer to see the link itself before deciding whether or not to open it. "Here" could go just about anywhere! Thanks.

This is an interesting discussion to read. I have never studied these issues, but I appreciate reading this informed debate.

Hover your mouse cursor over the links. It will show you what the links are. I don't know which link is the problem. I'll see if I can PM adnoid to see if he can find which link is the problem.

 

[shadowraiths]

What is your take on the brainscan evidence then? The "organic" component? It isn't all nurture, it is *also* nature.

There are most certainly "organic" and "genetic" components to psychopathy. Just as there is most certainly "nurture" and "social" components. And, lest we forget, the psychological component—the core psychological perception of the world in which one lives. This is referred to the biopsychosocial model of criminal behavior, btw. In other words, the either/or nature v nurture model of criminal behavior is considered a somewhat outdated and archaic model by most in the field of forensic psychology. And first year forensic psychology students are generally disabused of this way of thinking (i.e, nature v nurture) early on.

 

[sherri79]

i hate to go off topic but this child is involved in a case where he claims he did not do it. the police say he addmitted it but that he was not trying to hurt anyone. we really do not have enough details here to say anything about this child. he is 10 so we can not even 100 percent trust the story he gave police. children can be manipulated by a skilled investigator. i know my son has lied at 9 years of age to his teacher because her tone scared him. he admitted he stole money from another student. by the time i got to the school they had found the stolen money in the childs desk. when asked why he would lie when it was clear he was innocent he said he was scared.

did this child actually do this?

when the child spoke to police he said it was a accident. i was about that age when i heard hair spray would burn. i did not know it would turn into a blow torch!. i was lucky and only scorched the wall. thank god i was not standing next to curtains. i could have burned down the whole house.

did the child do this on purpose?

children make mistakes and that is part of being a child. we tell them dont play with guns, or fire, dont do drugs, dont eat too much candy, dont lie, dont dress like that, do your homework and 100 other rules. they are kids and they screw up. part of the reason they screw up so often is they do not think ahead and we rarely tell them why we made the rule. a ten year old that plays with fire may grow up to be a serial killer or may just be a dumb kid. just like a 16 year old that hits a few joints may grow up to be a crack head or may be president. a court is needed in this case to decide how much of his actions are evil and how much are a childhood mistake that had a horrible result.

 

[JBean]

Hover your mouse cursor over the links. It will show you what the links are. I don't know which link is the problem. I'll see if I can PM adnoid to see if he can find which link is the problem.

why don't you just remove them all Kat? play it safe. I just got my computer back up.
ETA: They may be fine for some and apparently not for others..but who is to say who it will affect?

 

[KatK]

why don't you just remove them all Kat? play it safe. I just got my computer back up.
ETA: They may be fine for some and apparently not for others..but who is to say who it will affect?

PMd the resident techie about it. ETA: Mostly because I want to know which site to beware of dagnabbit! ETA2: Edited the post to give a warning also.

 

[JBean]

PMd the resident techie about it. ETA: Mostly because I want to know which site to beware of dagnabbit!

yeah but you can try and figure that out offline. It probably just depends on what virusware or adware each of us have. Mine was not good for that site and yours may be...so how can we be sure?
Why don;t you take them down and figure it out off board? My computer is completely messed up.

 

[KatK]

yeah but you can try and figure that out offline. It probably just depends on what virusware or adware each of us have. Mine was not good for that site and yours may be...so how can we be sure?
Why don;t you take them down and figure it out off board? My computer is completely messed up.

This computer has VERY little protection, that's why. (As in, Lavasoft Adaware, and the Microsoft Malicious Software Removal tool atm, gotta get a license renewal for MacAffee.) If any computer was to be hit, this one by all rights should be. What browser were you using, that might have been what saved my computer! I'm still running IE6.

 

[JBean]

This computer has VERY little protection, that's why. If any computer was to be hit, this one by all rights should be.

So are you leaving them up?

Maybe there is a link on the link that I hit waiting for it to come up?

 

[shadowraiths]

i hate to go off topic but this child is involved in a case where he claims he did not do it. the police say he addmitted it but that he was not trying to hurt anyone. we really do not have enough details here to say anything about this child. he is 10 so we can not even 100 percent trust the story he gave police. children can be manipulated by a skilled investigator. i know my son has lied at 9 years of age to his teacher because her tone scared him. he admitted he stole money from another student. by the time i got to the school they had found the stolen money in the childs desk. when asked why he would lie when it was clear he was innocent he said he was scared.

did this child actually do this?

when the child spoke to police he said it was a accident. i was about that age when i heard hair spray would burn. i did not know it would turn into a blow torch!. i was lucky and only scorched the wall. thank god i was not standing next to curtains. i could have burned down the whole house.

did the child do this on purpose?

children make mistakes and that is part of being a child. we tell them dont play with guns, or fire, dont do drugs, dont eat too much candy, dont lie, dont dress like that, do your homework and 100 other rules. they are kids and they screw up. part of the reason they screw up so often is they do not think ahead and we rarely tell them why we made the rule. a ten year old that plays with fire may grow up to be a serial killer or may just be a dumb kid. just like a 16 year old that hits a few joints may grow up to be a crack head or may be president. a court is needed in this case to decide how much of his actions are evil and how much are a childhood mistake that had a horrible result.

Bravo and excellent points, Sherri!!! Although this was something that crossed my mind, I was too busy ensconced in the psychopathy issue. Yes, I am very much against labeling children psychopaths (or any other thing, such as juvenile sex offenders, for that matter), for the very same reasons you note. As for a child being manipulated by LE? The Michael Crowe case, in and of itself, exemplifies the issues of interrogating a child.

For those unfamiliar with the Michael Crowe case, he was coerced into confessing that he and his friends murdered his sister, Stephanie Crowe, in a "Satanic Ritual." The problem? He and his friends were wholly innocent. And it was not revealed until much later the degree to which LE basically "forced" the confession. Sign-on San Diego still has a section providing the full details to this tragic story (click here).

 

[MeoW333]

In the book on Arthur Shawcross (convicted serial killer) there had been some research regarding phiery oils (missing a key on keyboard -phonics i.e. phly phlem -ph- sound) that i can't remember the ancient (either greek or latin term) that are phound in the human body. Very little research seems to have been done; i need to phind repherence the exact term.
Also some say an extra Y chromosome linked to violence.
In this speciphic case involving the 10 year old boy; i think we need more background on his history prior to come to a conclusion. It may have been an isolated incident or perhaps he was regularly playing with matches. He is a 10 year old child; and it isn't as though he shot or stabbed his phamily to death; he set a phire and his brain is not completely developed so most likely he didn't think consequences. He certainly needs psychiatric help.

 

[KatK]

So are you leaving them up?

Maybe there is a link on the link that I hit waiting for it to come up?

I did put a warning in the post, with giant teal text... Read what I further said in my post just before this one. I just don't know. I really hope it wasn't one of my links, that I wasn't the cause of your computer troubles with my links. I can accept it if I was, but I hope that wasn't it. ETA: Mostly I am leaving the links up so adnoid can get a look at 'em and see which one could have been the problem. If there is a problem, I want to know, so I can learn and avoid!

 

[shadowraiths]

I did put a warning in the post, with giant teal text... Read what I further said in my post just before this one. I just don't know. I really hope it wasn't one of my links, that I wasn't the cause of your computer troubles with my links. I can accept it if I was, but I hope that wasn't it. ETA: Mostly I am leaving the links up so adnoid can get a look at 'em and see which one could have been the problem. If there is a problem, I want to know, so I can learn and avoid!

I have previously been to all of the links you posted, before, and never run into a problem. In light of JBean's comment regarding the popups, and that she thought she'd clicked on something while waiting for the page to load, I'd bet dollars to donuts, it has more to do with the ads. This is one reason, btw, I detest ad campaigns, and refuse to sponsor such on my sites. But anyway... just a suggestion wrt what JBean may have encountered.

 

[JBean]

I have previously been to all of the links you posted, before, and never run into a problem. In light of JBean's comment regarding the popups, and that she thought she'd clicked on something while waiting for the page to load, I'd bet dollars to donuts, it has more to do with the ads. This is one reason, btw, I detest ad campaigns, and refuse to sponsor such on my sites. But anyway... just a suggestion wrt what JBean may have encountered.

thanks Shadow. I just clicked the link and all hell broke loose on my computer. If I hit an ad, I didn't know it. MY computer is still unhappy.

 

[KatK]

thanks Shadow. I just clicked the link and all hell broke loose on my computer. If I hit an ad, I didn't know it. MY computer is still unhappy.

Again, it's mostly the desire to figure out what the root of the problem is, which link. I want to avoid it/the whole site it came from, and never post a link to there again also.

 

[sherri79]

Bravo and excellent points, Sherri!!! Although this was something that crossed my mind, I was too busy ensconced in the psychopathy issue. Yes, I am very much against labeling children psychopaths (or any other thing, such as juvenile sex offenders, for that matter), for the very same reasons you note. As for a child being manipulated by LE? The Michael Crowe case, in and of itself, exemplifies the issues of interrogating a child.

For those unfamiliar with the Michael Crowe case, he was coerced into confessing that he and his friends murdered his sister, Stephanie Crowe, in a "Satanic Ritual." The problem? He and his friends were wholly innocent. And it was not revealed until much later the degree to which LE basically "forced" the confession. Sign-on San Diego still has a section providing the full details to this tragic story (click here).

for me it partly comes down to what do you think of as a "child". a 16 year old that rapes a 5 year old at knife point is a sex offender and i say throw away the key. a 9 year old that commits the same crime is a child that can be saved (maybe). they both are probably acting out abuse they suffered but at some point you pass beyond childhood in the understanding of your own actions and the harm you can cause. i do think some children can not be helped. i do not think we can tell which child is beyond help. while young we can mold their minds and heart. the same way a pedo can scar a child we can heal them with love and the right therapy. i feel you can not throw away a child because there is no test that says "this child is beyond help" that has results we can trust 100%. having said that i strongly feel children that are a danger to others must be locked away in a secure facility. i just think that facility needs equal parts punishment and help while these kids are young enough we can change them.

 

[Ntegrity]

thanks Shadow. I just clicked the link and all hell broke loose on my computer. If I hit an ad, I didn't know it. MY computer is still unhappy.

I had that happen on my work computer one time. It went totally insane and took our IT guy a whole day to get that crap cleaned off. It was adware, not a virus.

 

[shadowraiths]

Okay, I just went to all three links. Cleared the error log cache before going to each. No errors were reported. Which really did not surprise me. David Webb, for example (the first link) who, iirc, has a masters in forensic psych, is a chap from the UK. His site has been around for a bit. As has crime library (the last link). I'm not sure who owns the psychopath-research dot com forum, but no errors were reported for that site either. Nor did I get any popups for any of the sites. Then again, I have popups disabled on all of my browsers...

Also, JBean, you mentioned you went to these from your blackberry? If that is the case, it may have more to do with your blackberry's 'browser' compatibility than with anything else (i.e., blackberry uses Opera. And not all web sites work with that browser). Either way, I would urge you to check your settings, and if able, disable popups. And if you cannot do that, at the very least, disable javascript. Anyway, hth!

 

[southcitymom]

Okay, I just went to all three links. Cleared the error log cache before going to each. No errors were reported. Which really did not surprise me. David Webb, for example (the first link) who, iirc, has a masters in forensic psych, is a chap from the UK. His site has been around for a bit. As has crime library (the last link). I'm not sure who owns the psychopath-research dot com forum, but no errors were reported for that site either. Nor did I get any popups for any of the sites. Then again, I have popups disabled on all of my browsers...

Also, JBean, you mentioned you went to these from your blackberry? If that is the case, it may have more to do with your blackberry's 'browser' compatibility than with anything else (i.e., blackberry uses Opera. And not all web sites work with that browser). Either way, I would urge you to check your settings, and if able, disable popups. And if you cannot do that, at the very least, disable javascript. Anyway, hth!

Nope - JBean went to the links from her regular computer. When they screwed up her regular computer, she got on her Blackberry to come here and warn us.

 

[JBean]

Okay, I just went to all three links. Cleared the error log cache before going to each. No errors were reported. Which really did not surprise me. David Webb, for example (the first link) who, iirc, has a masters in forensic psych, is a chap from the UK. His site has been around for a bit. As has crime library (the last link). I'm not sure who owns the psychopath-research dot com forum, but no errors were reported for that site either. Nor did I get any popups for any of the sites. Then again, I have popups disabled on all of my browsers...

Also, JBean, you mentioned you went to these from your blackberry? If that is the case, it may have more to do with your blackberry's 'browser' compatibility than with anything else (i.e., blackberry uses Opera. And not all web sites work with that browser). Either way, I would urge you to check your settings, and if able, disable popups. And if you cannot do that, at the very least, disable javascript. Anyway, hth!

No I didn;t go with my blackberry, I had to use my blackberry when my computer crashed.
I have every blocker I know of, but it just wasn't enough ,which was my point.
My computer is messed up and I won;t be going back so I'll worry about it tomorrow.

ETA: I do have popups disabled also. I am pretty well covered...at least up until today lol. No worries just the perils of the internet.