OH - Clermont County father lined up sons 3, 4, and 7, executed with rifle, mother injured trying to protect them, June 2023

[Rosiebones]

From the quoted news link, the following was reported:

Despite his confession, Doerman did not enter a plea while in court Friday.

Also during the detention hearing, we further learned from David Gast, assistant Clermont County prosecutor, that not only did Doerman confess to murdering his children but that he also planned their murders.

Who hasn't wondered if a suspect confesses, why do they plead 'not guilty' in court?

I know that I have!

Referencing a case in Washington, I learned the first thing to understand is the difference between “innocent” and “not guilty.”

Not guilty can mean innocent – as people are presumed innocent until found guilty – but in essence, pleading not guilty sets into motion the process where attorneys can review the case. (Otherwise, once a plea is accepted, the next step is sentencing).

Generally, at the time of arraignment (where the defendant enters a plea), defense attorneys only have the charging document and/or probable cause statement and by pleading not guilty, it allows the defense time to collect discovery from the prosecution, and that can involve a lot of information (evidence against the defendant).

In fact, it’s not unusual for a judge to enter a not-guilty plea on behalf of a defendant, or in some cases, simply decline to accept a guilty plea at arraignment.

“Legally, you have the right to plead guilty at arraignment,” said Chief Deputy Prosecutor Chad Enright. “But it is a qualified right.”

In cases where a person is charged with aggravated first-degree murder, state law prevents them from pleading guilty for 30 days after arraignment, Weaver said.

The judge – whose job is to protect a defendant’s rights, lest the case be returned to their courtroom on appeal – has to make an independent determination that the plea is voluntary. They also have to make sure that a defendant understands the nature of the charges, possible consequences and that they are giving up their right to a trial and to appeal. Enright said at arraignment there usually hasn’t been enough time to accomplish all that.

Kitsap-Crime

I posed this question ( #410) a while back and this explains it to me. Thank you

 

[Hexe]

I don't know, if I think, that such a monster would deserve something like a fair trial. He wasn't fair to his whole family for one second, it seems. In his mind, while planning murder (as he said himself), he wasn't fair over several months even.

Punishment without a fair trial is a lynch, not a justice.

 

[Cindizzi]

 

[PawneeDew]

BBM. It truly is sad because there are resources in every state that are free and they include hotlines. The police report is so the shelter can help the mother obtain an Emergency Order of Protection. A Police Chief advised my niece to take the police report with her when she went to Court. She got the EOP and it was extended for two years.

JMO

I guess there will always be cracks in the system...

 

[PawneeDew]

He

I see something in this face that gives me the creeps- a small man with a complex. To me it seems this guy thinks he is a good actor, he thinks he is the master manipulator, tries to charm and lie wherever he goes… and bully those he can.

I of course do not know him, but I’ve met many angry little men who are adults by age only.
Someone in the family knew this guy was capable, and yet he had a gun in his home.
Why not call and let the cops know the guy has a gun!

He had already been to that jail because he fought with his father and tried to choke him- but his father dropped charges. To me- That is a RedFlag!

JMO

He totally reminds me of Letecia Stauch. From the beginning.

 

[iamshadow21]

He

He totally reminds me of Letecia Stauch. From the beginning.

One of those is more than enough in this world.

Those poor boys.

MOO

 

[Rolypolyoly]

One of those is more than enough in this world.

Those poor boys.

MOO

One of those is already one too many!

 

[cattlekate]

Bbm.
Hmmm.

Speculation : IF he was served recently with divorce papers, that could've been a catalyst.
But (IMO) it sounds like his father might be defensive.
Just my .02.

People get divorced .
It happens.
Sometimes it's not the person's fault who is being served -- and they may feel they've done nothing wrong to warrant the other spouse leaving.
However, to ruthlessly slaughter your own beautiful babies takes away any blame that the perp or others may lay at someone's doorstep !
M00.
Ymmv.

Rest in gentle peace and fly with the angels, little guys !

Was there a filing for divorce and can we see it?

 

[FromGermany1]

He

He totally reminds me of Letecia Stauch. From the beginning.

Childishly wide astonished eyes?

 

[FromGermany1]

Punishment without a fair trial is a lynch, not a justice.

I know.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

Childishly wide astonished eyes?

Narcissist psychopath?

 

[MyBelle]

From the quoted news link, the following was reported:

Despite his confession, Doerman did not enter a plea while in court Friday.

Also during the detention hearing, we further learned from David Gast, assistant Clermont County prosecutor, that not only did Doerman confess to murdering his children but that he also planned their murders.

Who hasn't wondered if a suspect confesses, why do they plead 'not guilty' in court?

I know that I have!

Referencing a case in Washington, I learned the first thing to understand is the difference between “innocent” and “not guilty.”

Not guilty can mean innocent – as people are presumed innocent until found guilty – but in essence, pleading not guilty sets into motion the process where attorneys can review the case. (Otherwise, once a plea is accepted, the next step is sentencing).

Generally, at the time of arraignment (where the defendant enters a plea), defense attorneys only have the charging document and/or probable cause statement and by pleading not guilty, it allows the defense time to collect discovery from the prosecution, and that can involve a lot of information (evidence against the defendant).

In fact, it’s not unusual for a judge to enter a not-guilty plea on behalf of a defendant, or in some cases, simply decline to accept a guilty plea at arraignment.

“Legally, you have the right to plead guilty at arraignment,” said Chief Deputy Prosecutor Chad Enright. “But it is a qualified right.”

In cases where a person is charged with aggravated first-degree murder, state law prevents them from pleading guilty for 30 days after arraignment, Weaver said.

The judge – whose job is to protect a defendant’s rights, lest the case be returned to their courtroom on appeal – has to make an independent determination that the plea is voluntary. They also have to make sure that a defendant understands the nature of the charges, possible consequences and that they are giving up their right to a trial and to appeal. Enright said at arraignment there usually hasn’t been enough time to accomplish all that.

Kitsap-Crime

Thanks for that explanation!

I'm wondering about the defendant's mental health and whether he is capable of even knowing what is going on with his defense. There is just something "off" about him.

JMO

 

[Seattle1]

Thanks for that explanation!

I'm wondering about the defendant's mental health and whether he is capable of even knowing what is going on with his defense. There is just something "off" about him.

JMO

Letecia Stauch's interviews with police were recently released to the public and listening to the professionals from "The Behavior Panel" assess the videos is confirmation to trust your instinct.

In this case, there's evidence of violent behavior previously reported to police, and observations by neighbors giving statements to media indicate this was an angry, abusive man.

I think this will prove the typical family annihilator. Also, I doubt there's evidence of mental history here given the near-immediate announcement by the State to pursue the death penalty. JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Letecia Stauch's interviews with police were recently released to the public and listening to the professionals from "The Behavior Panel" assess the videos is confirmation to trust your instinct.

In this case, there's evidence of violent behavior previously reported to police, and observations by neighbors giving statements to media indicate this was an angry, abusive man.

I think this will prove the typical family annihilator. Also, I doubt there's evidence of mental history here given the near-immediate announcement by the State to pursue the death penalty. JMO

What is heartbreaking to me about this case is that CD's violence that a witness said he saw directed at the children wasn't reported to police or DCF. It reminds me of the death of AJ Freund and how DCFS workers ignored LE and medical reports about suspected abuse.

It won't surprise me if CD has an underlying psychiatric disorder such a schizophrenia or bipolar disorder that either hasn't been properly diagnosed and treated or he wasn't taking his medications or he was self-medicating with other drugs. I have no idea what kind of mental health services were available to him.

I have as hard a time of following this case as I did A.J.'s because it is so sickening. But I do intend to follow the trials of the two Illinois DCFS workers who failed to do their jobs and protect AJ.

JMO

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

I am in no way caught up (June 21/22), and I am trying to catch up. I just want to say that I will purposely never remember this male human's preferred name. regardless of sanity, excuses, or reasons (biological or not), this male human does not deserve a title or name. Naming things is a human thing, and he is not human. Delete if I have offended anyone.

 

[Seattle1]

What is heartbreaking to me about this case is that CD's violence that a witness said he saw directed at the children wasn't reported to police or DCF. It reminds me of the death of AJ Freund and how DCFS workers ignored LE and medical reports about suspected abuse.

It won't surprise me if CD has an underlying psychiatric disorder such a schizophrenia or bipolar disorder that either hasn't been properly diagnosed and treated or he wasn't taking his medications or he was self-medicating with other drugs. I have no idea what kind of mental health services were available to him.

I have as hard a time of following this case as I did A.J.'s because it is so sickening. But I do intend to follow the trials of the two Illinois DCFS workers who failed to do their jobs and protect AJ.

JMO

I recall the Freund case -- horrible what happened to the little 5 yr old. I recall his mother took an early plea and blamed his death on her drug addiction. I don't even want to know his father's sorry excuse.

 

[MyBelle]

I recall the Freund case -- horrible what happened to the little 5 yr old. I recall his mother took an early plea and blamed his death on her drug addiction. I don't even want to know his father's sorry excuse.

Mommy Dearest did take a plea.....and now she wants to appeal. She's a disgusting human being who belongs on death row, imo. AJ was taken away at birth because of her drug addiction. Dirtbag father was an attorney. I think the reason the DCFS workers didn't follow up is because they were scairt of Daddy. Agencies like DCFS need to rethink the primary goal is always to reunite the child with the parents. Those two were ruining the lives of three boys.

JMO

Court-appointed appeals lawyer for AJ Freund's mother wants off case

The court-appointed appeals lawyer for the mother of slain 5-year-old Crystal Lake boy AJ Freund is asking to withdraw from the case because it lacks merit, according to recent court filings. JoAnn ...

www.dailyherald.com

 

[Seattle1]

Mommy Dearest did take a plea.....and now she wants to appeal. She's a disgusting human being who belongs on death row, imo. AJ was taken away at birth because of her drug addiction. Dirtbag father was an attorney. I think the reason the DCFS workers didn't follow up is because they were scairt of Daddy. Agencies like DCFS need to rethink the primary goal is always to reunite the child with the parents. Those two were ruining the lives of three boys.

JMO

Court-appointed appeals lawyer for AJ Freund's mother wants off case

The court-appointed appeals lawyer for the mother of slain 5-year-old Crystal Lake boy AJ Freund is asking to withdraw from the case because it lacks merit, according to recent court filings. JoAnn ...

www.dailyherald.com

I agree. Just look at the fate of Harmony Montgomery after the state took her out of foster care and handed her over to her violent bio-dad in the spirit of "reunification." He murdered her with his bare hands!

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

Prosecution seem intent on following this through to a death penalty sentence So unlikely they are offering to let him plead guilty to life without parole. So I guess his only chance is to plead not guilty and try for some sort of diminished responsibility. Guessing this might be around being under influence/addiction problems, problems with impulse control (ADHD), developmental concerns and upbringing.

I agree with all of you calling this out as an escalation of family violence due to a sense of losing control. I think he has probably made threats to his wife to do this, and then snapped at something that happened that day.

I did think he looked shocked and remorseful the first time I saw him at that very first court appearance. I do think it’s possible he feels this - as well as putting blame for his actions solely on his wife for provoking him.

Rest in Peace little boys.

Although I agree with much of what you said, the only thing he looked remorseful for was himself.

 

[PawneeDew]

Childishly wide astonished eyes?

I definitely noticed that...Wonder what causes that?