Found Deceased OH - Harley Dilly, 14, walking to Port Clinton High School, 20 Dec 2019 #5

[cherrymeg]

My guess is that the flue had a cover on it that harley was able to open or remove (push out) from inside the chimney.

Did he have room to do that? I wonder if her went into the chimney alive. moo

 

[K9Enzo]

Think about fireman carrying (as an example) a 100 pound first responder training dummy up an antenna ladder attached to that house (not even sure if both weights would be supported), balancing yourself with that dead weight, walking on the roof, then forcing said dummy down the chimney.

I'm having a hard time with theories of foul play and this poor kid being placed there by someone who met him harm or him ending up in the chimney from inside the house.

 

[osu]

The house where HD was found was reported as located on Fulton St. Did Harley live on Fulton Street or was his home on E. 5th St (around the corner versus across the street)?

Trying to determine if he had a chimney...

Here’s a few photos of the houses.

The first photo is an aerial view of the two homes.

The 2nd photo shows the view of the 507 Fulton St house from Harley’s house.

The 3rd and 4th photos show Harley’s house.

 

[cherrymeg]

Think about fireman carrying (as an example) a 100 pound first responder training dummy up an antenna ladder attached to that house (not even sure if both weights would be supported), balancing yourself with that dead weight, walking on the roof, then forcing said dummy down the chimney.

I'm having a hard time with theories of foul play and this poor kid being placed there by someone who met him harm or him ending up in the chimney from inside the house.

Firemen do manage to carry people that are dead weight while wearing heavy protective suits. A ladder could have been used. Also he could have been pushed in. If it's an accident and no one was with him it's tragic but not a crime and that would be a small blessing. I hope they investigate and make sure it's an accident.

 

[catch_22]

Did he have room to do that? I wonder if her went into the chimney alive. moo

Yes, I've considered the possibility that he didn't go in alive. As someone else just posted, it would be a nightmare getting a body up on that roof. Although a good hiding place, i don't know why someone would go to that amount of trouble to dispose of a body.

The thing that makes me 99.9% certain, that he was alive when he went into the chimney, is the coat and glasses being pushed through the flue. Even if a "killer" somehow had access to the house, I can't imagine anyone thinking to lay the coat and glasses below the flue hole....

 

[deugirtni]

My guess is that the flue had a cover on it that harley was able to open or remove (push out) from inside the chimney.

Funny no mention of the flue cover having also been found pushed out/removed and on the floor?

 

[K9Enzo]

Firemen do manage to carry people that are dead weight while wearing heavy protective suits. A ladder could have been used. Also he could have been pushed in. If it's an accident and no one was with him it's tragic but not a crime and that would be a small blessing. I hope they investigate and make sure it's an accident.

Yes, fireman do carry both live and deceased people up and down ladders with protective suits on. I'm with you. They are super impressive and have an immense amount of training and body strength.

Back to HD and where he was found. You are suggesting maybe a ladder was used, instead of the antenna ladder attached to the house to get him on the roof? Where do you believe this ladder is located now, where did it come from? Did LE overlook it? That would also be a huge risk, even in the dark, to stage all of this in the yard, along with a body to deal with.

Also, who would the suspect be? Someone known to HD? Certainly not a classmate that's capable of this, IMO. If this was a random person, what was the motive and why pick THIS location and manner to get rid of a body?

 

[catch_22]

Funny no mention of the flue cover having also been found pushed out/removed and on the floor?

True, but there really hasn't been much info released. Maybe the flue has a cover that opens and closes with a hinge or something. I'm just assuming there is some kind of cover, and not an 8-inch hole in the wall open to the outside.

 

[IceIce9]

Firemen do manage to carry people that are dead weight while wearing heavy protective suits. A ladder could have been used. Also he could have been pushed in. If it's an accident and no one was with him it's tragic but not a crime and that would be a small blessing. I hope they investigate and make sure it's an accident.

If someone wanted to hide a body there would be easier places.......

 

[Linda7NJ]

I’ve been thinking about the sketchiness around the reasoning of searching that house, that day. - what were they doing the day before? Early that morning?

I think the chief is a terrible communicator- the answer could very well be we looked at the grid map the day, or days before and highlighted areas we wanted to take a second look at...we started in the areas located closest to the Dilly home

 

[Sonic7273]

Back to HD and where he was found. You are suggesting maybe a ladder was used, instead of the antenna ladder attached to the house to get him on the roof? Where do you believe this ladder is located now, where did it come from? Did LE overlook it? That would also be a huge risk, even in the dark

the house was under renovation. To have a ladder up against it might not draw as much attention in this case. Homeowner was there last mid November, so fairly recent.

IMO if there is foul play, it’s by someone very local, as in that block, that had knowledge of the house being vacant/unoccupied/under renovation.

 

[Sonic7273]

If someone wanted to hide a body there would be easier places.......

Yes I’m sure there are, but would those places make it look like a tragic accident also?

 

[Sonic7273]

Police report released, inside link below

Initial Harley Dilly police report released: Includes new details about teen’s life, time leading up to disappearance

 

[Kiranerys]

the house was under renovation. To have a ladder up against it might not draw as much attention in this case. Homeowner was there last mid November, so fairly recent.

IMO if there is foul play, it’s by someone very local, as in that block, that had knowledge of the house being vacant/unoccupied/under renovation.

Exactly,if a teenaged boy climbing on the roof and scaling that steep roof then climbing down a chimney didnt draw any attention I'm pretty sure no one would have noticed a ladder! JMO

 

[deugirtni]

I really can't imagine anyone throwing their glasses and coat down the chimney before him. What if he chickened out, changed his mind, or realized he couldn't fit in the chimney? "Well, my coat and glasses are gone......: (" It was like 15 degrees. I also kind of doubt he took his coat off. He may or may not would have put his glasses in his coat pocket before descending.

The chimney "expert" was describing a generic chimney/fireplace setup and not the specific chimney in this house. There has been mention of chimneys "narrowing" as you go down (and I'm sure this is a thing with more modern chimneys), but this one was built in 1850. Why was the opening 9 x 13? Bricks. That is the size you get with a 2 brick by 2.5 brick structure. The chimney also (at least originally) went all the way down to the first floor. This leads me to think that the chimney was a vertical "column", and a consistent 9 x 13 from the first floor to the roof. Therefore, i question the compression cause of death determination.

My theory is as follows: Harley descended feet first. The space was so small that he descended with his arms above his head. Whether he "fell" or was able to control his descent, his coat was pulled off. The chimney was apparently blocked off at the second floor. So he gets to the second floor with his coat now sitting on top of his head. He realizes he is stuck and at some point feels the flue hole (which I'm guessing to be around 6 feet above the floor.....and right about where his arms above his head would be).

I originally thought that him pushing his coat out of the flue was because he was trying to leave "bread crumbs." I have since thought of a few other possible reasons. One is that his coat sitting on his head was annoying him and he got it out of the way by pushing it through the flue. The other possible reason is more disturbing. That possible reason is that the chimney was filling up with the carbon dioxide that he was exhaling, and he was having trouble breathing, and the coat was partially blocking the path to fresh air. Now I'm no scientist, so i really don't know how possible him asphyxiating in there due to him using up the oxygen is. The top of the chimney is open, but it was pretty far away. There was also the flue hole to let in air, so I'm not really sure about the science of it all. The inside of the chimney is a relatively small space with a limited amount of oxygen (if the oxygen is not replaced/air circulated). Supposedly carbon dioxide is heavier than air, and would theoretically eventually fill up the bottom of the chimney. Again, especially considering the flue hole, I don't even know if it would be possible for him to use up the oxygen.

If not possible, I would think that there is a good chance that he died from dehydration. I wonder if the autopsy can determine the difference between dehydration and asphyxiation with the amount of decomposition present?

I haven't looked up proof of this, but back in 1852, weren't ceiling heights made much higher than they are nowadays, like 9', 10' even up to 14'? I know in all the very old houses I've been in, the ceilings were impressively high. Sure would be nice to have more info. imo.

 

[scdiv]

Here's the initial police report

https://localtvwjw.files.wordpress.com/2020/01/2966_001.pdf

 

[Night Watcher]

That house on Fulton St. did not have a fireplace. It also had a crawl space, no basement according to the Ottawa County Auditor (Ohio) website which is a public record. Previously, I posted a link to that house's public record but one of the mods deleted my post. I see a few postings about that chimney expert who IMO is only guessing to what transpired before Harley's remains were found. Unless the expert went into the house, how would he know? Smoke shelf? There is no fireplace. Notice the word surmise in the title. Also notice: "Not knowing the exact layout of the house's chimney, or if there was even a fireplace opening, at 507 Fulton St., he agreed to talk in general terms." This is a moot news article that has little value EXCEPT for "According to police, there is a flue on the second floor" This news article is poorly written and can be deceiving to some readers. JMHO Expert explains chimney design to surmise how Harley Dilly's coat, glasses were on 2nd floor of house

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Police report released, inside link below

Initial Harley Dilly police report released: Includes new details about teen’s life, time leading up to disappearance

One of those friends told police he saw Harley after school Friday; that Harley knocked on his door wanting to know if he could go to a Cavs game with him. He told Harley there were no more tickets. Harley was wearing a red coat with gray sweatpants and black tennis shoes at the time, the report states.
So the plot thickens. Harley was supposed to go to school, but he didn't. we now know he couldn't have died within the first 7 hrs that morning after being seen on surveillance at 6:08. If he went to the friends door Friday after school.
This case has more holes than swiss cheese.
I'll just sit on my hands.
MOO

 

[skywalker20]

According to the police report, Harley's friend states that he saw him Friday after school! Harley asked him if he can go with them to the Cavs game. Maybe the timeline is not correct? Maybe he climbed the roof not at 6:08 am, but late afternoon? It was already pretty dark at 5 pm end of December in Ohio. Somehow that would make more sense to me.

 

[scdiv]

It's still unclear to me where Harley had spent Thursday night. Did he sleep at home in his bed on Thursday night?

And no I don't think anyone climbed an antenna, that is not even a real ladder, with a body, and used a chimney to hide a body. And out in the open, on a public neighborhood street. So a person would have to be doing it in pitch black darkness in order not to be seen. Or do in broad daylight and risk being seen by someone driving or walking or running by. It's not like you can climb a ladder with a heavy dead body quickly and sneak away. It would take several minutes if not more. I think there are a gazillion other places that would have been a whole lot easier and logical. and there was no way into the chimney from inside the house. It's a tragic accident. And a tragedy that no one noticed a boy (with autism) as referenced in the police report was missing sooner. Just a very sad situation all the way around.