OH - Kathryn, 54, & James Stockdale, 21, shot to death, Stark Co., 15 June 2017

[MsMarple]

Police Report: http://radaronline.com/wp-content/u...ly-murder-crime-scene-details-docs-signed.pdf

It makes me wonder, too. according to the police report, a victim (already dead) was found at the front door with a shotgun by the body, as they arrived. As officer was going to ask if victim was OK they heard another gunshot and retreated. I would guess the shot they heard was the last "victim" in the kitchen (about 20 feet away, I read somewhere). The one "by the door" could not be Jacob if he was already dead, and reports have James being the one killed. The other shot they heard had to come from another weapon, so two should be apparent at the scene.

Either I am totally confused, or this is not making sense to me. What am I missing here? Could James have shot mother, then Jacob shot James as he tried to leave the house? Or after mom was killed, James took a shotgun to protect himself, and was shot leaving?

The empty shells should tell if both killings were from the same weapon, right?

help me, people. Am I totally off-base here?

I think you have it, Spellbound. Between the police report and various msm reports (if they are accurate that is) I've pieced it together as; Jacob shot the mother twice in the head in the upstairs bathroom, which implies that she had no warning. Then Jacob shot James who fell next to the front door of the house. Jacob delayed shooting himself until the police arrived and did so in the kitchen.

If the neighbor who reported that he heard a total of nearly a dozen shots is accurate (and not mistaken memory) then it implies that Jacob may have (my speculation) chased the mom through the upstairs, shooting, until he cornered her in the bathroom where he shot her twice in the head.

Then, as the neighbor stated, there was a pause then more shots. Did James get the other shotgun during this time? Did he actually shoot it though? Unlike the mom I think James had a few minutes to think and act after hearing the shots upstairs. So how did things unfold during that time?

Again, speculation, but maybe James either was also upstairs or came up when he heard the shots. The second round of shots the neighbor heard could have been Jacob chasing James, shooting and finally hitting him in the head as James tried to escape out the front door.

What confounds me the most is why did Jacob shoot James if his anger was directed towards his mother?

 

[Spellbound]

Your theory sounds close to what may have conspired, MsMarple.

Now, who called 911? James, when he realized what was happening, or Jacob after the two were dead? Why would Jacob wait for police to arrive before shooting himself?

We may never know what brought this on. My cousin was 15 when he shot and killed his mother (our neighbor, trimming flowers in MY back yard). He went to a juvenile center for a short time (back in 1970). We never did learn why he had done it.

 

[seattlechiquita]

Oy vey. Marking my spot while I catch up with reading. Folks over at Free Jinger are having also good talk about this - the family being fundamentalists and whatnot.

 

[jns207]

http://www.savingcountrymusic.com/g...inside-the-life-of-the-stockdale-family-band/

I found the above link to provide a detailed overview of the family and this tragedy, including an informative compilation of quoted material from other sources. A bit of a disclaimer: it may qualify as more of a blog post than a news article, and includes a bit of slant with regard to the bluegrass family band and/or repression aspects, but it certainly provides more detail (and, quite possibly, more accuracy) than "news" outlets like TMZ. It was worth the read, IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Spellbound]

http://www.savingcountrymusic.com/g...inside-the-life-of-the-stockdale-family-band/

I found the above link to provide a detailed overview of the family and this tragedy, including an informative compilation of quoted material from other sources. A bit of a disclaimer: it may qualify as more of a blog post than a news article, and includes a bit of slant with regard to the bluegrass family band and/or repression aspects, but it certainly provides more detail (and, quite possibly, more accuracy) than "news" outlets like TMZ. It was worth the read, IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, this is a good overview. nice to have it all in one place and not sensationalized. Thanks for sharing it here.

 

[Deleted member 172065]

Sorry. I can't keep up. I'm an Ohioan and it's amazing (in a bad way) how SO many high profile crimes coming out of our state.
Anywho, I missed it. Did Jacob still live at home?
I read the above article from savingcountrymusic and saw where Jacob thought he was going to hell if he had fun. That's really over the top, as well as much that went on in that family. I think they were affiliated with Mennonite. Read it once, but not sure on that. Or was it their own style of raising kids?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[MsMarple]

Sorry. I can't keep up. I'm an Ohioan and it's amazing (in a bad way) how SO many high profile crimes coming out of our state.
Anywho, I missed it. Did Jacob still live at home?
I read the above article from savingcountrymusic and saw where Jacob thought he was going to hell if he had fun. That's really over the top, as well as much that went on in that family. I think they were affiliated with Mennonite. Read it once, but not sure on that. Or was it their own style of raising kids?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Both Jacob and James still lived with the parents. The two older boys had moved elsewhere. According to msm the Stockdale's were members of the Zion Reformed Church in Winesburg Ohio, which is part of the Presbyterian Church in America. I know nothing about those denominations so maybe a knowledgeable member can explain their beliefs.

Also, we don't know if/how things had changed in the family dynamics since 2008. Back then the boys were pretty young and probably much more sensitive to adhering to the parents' rules and beliefs. Treading carefully since we can't sleuth other family members I will say that the older boys seem to have settled into more normal lifestlyles in other parts of the country.

 

[Deleted member 172065]

Both Jacob and James still lived with the parents. The two older boys had moved elsewhere. According to msm the Stockdale's were members of the Zion Reformed Church in Winesburg Ohio, which is part of the Presbyterian Church in America. I know nothing about those denominations so maybe a knowledgeable member can explain their beliefs.

Also, we don't know if/how things had changed in the family dynamics since 2008. Back then the boys were pretty young and probably much more sensitive to adhering to the parents' rules and beliefs. Treading carefully since we can't sleuth other family members I will say that the older boys seem to have settled into more normal lifestlyles in other parts of the country.

Oh. I was raised Presbyterian. No legalistic type doctrines whatsoever. I would say kinda wishy washy in all stances. Hmmm, but the stockdale's church must be totally different, or they (probably) did their own thing. No idea what the Zion one is.
But this is all JMO.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[opalpearl]

I'm throwing out some general thoughts that have occurred to me since following this story:

1. It's odd that the kids weren't allowed to participate in sports due to their competitive nature, yet they competed musically, sometimes as much as seven times a month - that's a lot! I wonder if the two younger sons were in competition for their mother's approval. The youngest was in college and the two older boys did not live at home. I wonder if Jacob felt trapped or abandoned, or not as successful. http://www.savingcountrymusic.com/g...inside-the-life-of-the-stockdale-family-band/

2. Is it odd that the father didn't release a statement that included acknowledging James, and that Calvin didn't acknowledge his mother in his statement?

3. The mother was the band's manger, and even though she credits her children for making the decision to participate on Wife Swap, it's a savvy business move for bringing notoriety to their band, as well as they obviously needed the money. Yet it's out of character given her views outlined in the manual. That leads me to believe that the household was not quite as strict as it was made out to be on the show (no surprise, and has been brought up in the thread already), as well as the manual was a gimmick.

4. I read somewhere that the family had performed just days before. I wonder if there are any romantic interests that the two younger sons were competing for, just speculation, but I wonder if something came up at the performance that stirred jealousy in Jacob.

5. As much as it is tempting to blame the mother for being too strict, let's not forget a.) the father was also rearing the children, and if true, allowed and fostered this culture in the house, and b.) the mother is a victim of violence, and did not deserve to be murdered.

All just my opinion.

 

[Deleted member 172065]

I'm throwing out some general thoughts that have occurred to me since following this story:

1. It's odd that the kids weren't allowed to participate in sports due to their competitive nature, yet they competed musically, sometimes as much as seven times a month - that's a lot! I wonder if the two younger sons were in competition for their mother's approval. The youngest was in college and the two older boys did not live at home. I wonder if Jacob felt trapped or abandoned, or not as successful. http://www.savingcountrymusic.com/g...inside-the-life-of-the-stockdale-family-band/

2. Is it odd that the father didn't release a statement that included acknowledging James, and that Calvin didn't acknowledge his mother in his statement?

3. The mother was the band's manger, and even though she credits her children for making the decision to participate on Wife Swap, it's a savvy business move for bringing notoriety to their band, as well as they obviously needed the money. Yet it's out of character given her views outlined in the manual. That leads me to believe that the household was not quite as strict as it was made out to be on the show (no surprise, and has been brought up in the thread already), as well as the manual was a gimmick.

4. I read somewhere that the family had performed just days before. I wonder if there are any romantic interests that the two younger sons were competing for, just speculation, but I wonder if something came up at the performance that stirred jealousy in Jacob.

5. As much as it is tempting to blame the mother for being too strict, let's not forget a.) the father was also rearing the children, and if true, allowed and fostered this culture in the house, and b.) the mother is a victim of violence, and did not deserve to be murdered.

All just my opinion.

#5. Absolutely. You might have a mom who might not be your fav person in life (many people do) but as an adult you are free to leave. Right? If young adults would just get out of the house if unhappy! I woulda hated living in that household, but that's absolutely no right or reason to murder someone. And yeah the dad mighta just gone with the flow. Some guys do that. Not makin it right.
I've always had a theory that extremism can back fire. Clarifying that....real extremism. Some people probably thought I was an extremist because I didn't have tv with the kids. But the violence is too extreme for my taste and it's too hard to regulate it. But video games were fine, and not much rules otherwise. So clarifying. I'm talking 'saturated' extremism. My new word.

 

[Ellmau]

Oh. I was raised Presbyterian. No legalistic type doctrines whatsoever. I would say kinda wishy washy in all stances. Hmmm, but the stockdale's church must be totally different, or they (probably) did their own thing. No idea what the Zion one is.
But this is all JMO.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The church website indicates that it is part of a more conservative breakaway Presbyterian church, the Presbyterian Church In America, with a link there to this history of their specific denomination: http://www.jrp-pca.org/about-jrp/a-brief-history-of-the-pca/

Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presbyterian_Church_in_America

 

[U2forever]

Oy vey. Marking my spot while I catch up with reading. Folks over at Free Jinger are having also good talk about this - the family being fundamentalists and whatnot.

Oh how I miss the TWOP Forums! The Duggars and Snad forums are my favorite.
Think I will hop on over to the FJ site, it's been a while since I was there. Thanks for the heads up, seattlechiquita.

 

[proctorelites]

I wonder did they test the hands of both brothers for Gunshot residue. Would be a little uncomfortable if he heals, starts talking says:" NO, he shot mama, I got the gun away and shot him. Once I called 911, I just couldn't take it, I had just watched my brother snap, shoot my mother and had to kill him in self defense. I couldn't go on living so I shot myself" Very bizarre idea but, he may decide he needs a defense. And only those 3 ppl know the truth. I know I'm way off topic but I think it would be bad if we only have half the story.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[strawberry]

The church website indicates that it is part of a more conservative breakaway Presbyterian church, the Presbyterian Church In America, with a link there to this history of their specific denomination: http://www.jrp-pca.org/about-jrp/a-brief-history-of-the-pca/

Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presbyterian_Church_in_America

These people are as Presbyterian as the Westboros are Baptist [emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[colette]

The mother had said the "boys" would live at home until they were married. Maybe that is why Jacob was still at home, even though he was over 21.

 

[bluesneakers]

The mother had said the "boys" would live at home until they were married. Maybe that is why Jacob was still at home, even though he was over 21.

How were they supposed to meet anyone to marry?

 

[seattlechiquita]

How were they supposed to meet anyone to marry?

At church maybe? Arranged meetings by fundie-matchmakers? These folks -and others like them- are really particular about courtship. Rules, strange stuff.

 

[Ellmau]

James had started dating, acoording to his brother Charles at the memorial service:



http://www.the-daily-record.com/loc...-gather-for-stockdale-family-memorial-service

Also:

Calvin said James ... had a close relationship with his brother Jacob, who played fiddle in the family band.

CHarles S

Charles credited [Kathy] for instilling in him a strong work ethic and enthusiasm for learning that led to a doctorate degree. During the service, he read from a handwritten booklet of inspirational scripture she gave him last year.

 

[Indy Anna]

How were they supposed to meet anyone to marry?

The Dating Game?

 

[TaylorJ4]

There's a very well known large family in the state I live in, Arkansas. This family has their own reality tv show, profess to be ultra-Christian, and home schooled all their children. However, you never know what goes on behind anyone's closed door.

A few years ago it came out that their oldest son had molested his own sister who was about his same at at the time (both early teens) AND four other girls with most of the perverted invasions upon these girls taking place while the girls were asleep. The boy's family and their reputation kept the son from ever facing any charges at the time and now the statute of limitations has run and he can never be charged. The local police and the family's church got involved and the whole thing got swept under the rug.

I have to say for me personally I've always thought something was off. I've lived in Arkansas my whole life, with the exception of about 6 months when I lived in Florida. I lived in Northwest Arkansas for nearly 4 years - the same area of the state this family lives in. Around that time they only had about 9 or 10 kids, but the family was well known in this part of the state (the largest area outside of the greater Little Rock area). They were very astute when it came to publicity for their family even back then - around 8 - 9 years before they ever got the tv show. When the father ran for some local government position around 2000-2001, they very publicly used their children in billboards and ads to get votes.

Like I said, something never seemed right. The image they over sold, even before reality tv came into their lives, was too perfect. I'm sure they're very nice people, but whenever someone goes overboard trying to convince me of anything I immediately become skeptical about why they're trying so hard to convince me. The public perception or image of this family in Ohio bares an uncanny resemblance to the family here in Arkansas.

http://m.tmz.com/#article/2015/05/2...minor-girls-sisters-19-kids-and-counting-tlc/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He molested 4 of his sisters, the youngest was 5 at the time

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Tapatalk