OH - Larry Mugrage, 15, fatally shot, Batavia, 19 March 2006

[Ntegrity]

There are so many people in this world who have their values and morals all mixed up. This man thought his grass was worth more than this boys life.

I agree with you. It's truly pathetic that the man's grass meant so much to him that he'd kill someone for walking on it. It sounds like he has OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder).

BUT, if we want to protect our children, we need to teach them that some people in this world are unstable and suffer from mental disorders that make them more apt to commit acts like this that don't make sense to a normal person. My MIL is OCD and you wouldn't believe the tiny little things that set her off. The last thing you want to do is deliberately antagonize someone like that.

 

[NewMom2003]

I agree with you. It's truly pathetic that the man's grass meant so much to him that he'd kill someone for walking on it. It sounds like he has OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder).

BUT, if we want to protect our children, we need to teach them that some people in this world are unstable and suffer from mental disorders that make them more apt to commit acts like this that don't make sense to a normal person. My MIL is OCD and you wouldn't believe the tiny little things that set her off. The last thing you want to do is deliberately antagonize someone like that.

This is such a good point about warning our children about people like this. Especially those that are in close proximity to our homes, etc. :clap::clap:

Wasn't Dennis Radar (BTK) also obessesive like this about his lawn?

 

[eve]

This is such a good point about warning our children about people like this. Especially those that are in close proximity to our homes, etc. :clap::clap:

Wasn't Dennis Radar (BTK) also obessesive like this about his lawn?

I agree, the point is, there are people who are irrational. No sense in provoking them, as kids are wont to do. We did used to take delight in running across a crabby (about her lawn) woman's yard when I was little and we were a bunch of pretty good kids with strict parents.

I've really never met a person who was obsessed with their yard that I enjoyed being with or living next to.

Eve

 

[Ntegrity]

Wasn't Dennis Radar (BTK) also obessesive like this about his lawn?

I think he was only obsessive about other people's lawns. He got off on the power trip when he could write them up for code violations.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I agree, the point is, there are people who are irrational. No sense in provoking them, as kids are wont to do. We did used to take delight in running across a crabby (about her lawn) woman's yard when I was little and we were a bunch of pretty good kids with strict parents.

I've really never met a person who was obsessed with their yard that I enjoyed being with or living next to.

Eve

I'm out of the loop, but what did the kid do to provoke him? Simply walk on the grass? I'll be the first to admit that I live in Stepford and stuff like this doesn't happen in my neighborhood, but the dude hasn't called the police since 2003. I think his provocation excuse is past the point of ridiculous if all he did was sit around and stew about the dude for the past two years.

 

[Yakwoman]

All of you have made really good points. The thing is, none of us knows the whole story at this point. Yes, the old guy's values might have been warped, but that's his business. All he wanted was for people to respect his property and not walk on his grass. When someone repeatedly does something that you've asked them not to do and they incite others to do the same, it's a form of torment/harassment. It may not seem like such a big deal to you or me, but to the person being harassed, it's MAJOR. It just keeps building up until something snaps.

I'm sure this boy was an average kid - no better and no worse that most - but it's too bad that his parents didn't teach him to respect the neighbor. Because, as one of the posters said, there are people like this out there. No matter how you look at it, this is a tragedy that could have been prevented on so many levels.

 

[Ntegrity]

I'm out of the loop, but what did the kid do to provoke him? Simply walk on the grass? I'll be the first to admit that I live in Stepford and stuff like this doesn't happen in my neighborhood, but the dude hasn't called the police since 2003. I think his provocation excuse is past the point of ridiculous if all he did was sit around and stew about the dude for the past two years.

I'm not sure what all happened between them, but here's a link with a bit more information on their feud. From that link is the following quote:

"I'm being harassed by him and his parents for five years and today I just blew it up," the caller says on the tape, before identifying himself as "Charles Martin."

In the 911 call, Martin, a retired Ford Motor Co. worker with no criminal record, allegedly told the dispatcher that Mugrage had been "making the other kids harass me and my place, tearing things up."

Maybe we'll eventually learn what led up to this tragedy.

 

[SoccerMom]

I agree, the point is, there are people who are irrational. No sense in provoking them, as kids are wont to do. I've really never met a person who was obsessed with their yard that I enjoyed being with or living next to.

Eve

In the case of my neighbor, we don't harrass her. We don't even associate with her. My kids have been taught to stay away from her. Yet she will seek out my kids and accuse them of doing God knows what to her property. So what I want to know in this case is if the "harrassment" was only in his mind.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Personally, I don't care if the guy was pissing his name in the grass with one hand and flipping him the bird with the other. There's no reason to shoot a kid in the chest.

 

[NewMom2003]

Personally, I don't care if the guy was pissing his name in the grass with one hand and flipping him the bird with the other. There's no reason to shoot a kid in the chest.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Exactly, if this man was being harassed by this boy, then he should have let the authorities handle it instead of shooting the kid. The fact that he stated he had not called the police since 2003 says something about him. If he was being harassed by the boy and his parents, why weren't there more calls to the cops?

Not saying that he wasn't being harassed, I'm saying maybe he was waiting for the opportunity to take matters into his own hands. I mentioned in an earlier thread that I think it's possible this could be pre-meditated. How did he get the shotgun loaded so quickly? Why did he shoot the kid twice? Was he just sitting there waiting for someone to trespass on his property? Too many questions on this one.

Another thing, I'm bothered by the statements in the 911 call (below). Obviously I don't know what his demeanor was when he made the call, but the statements give me the impression that he was proud of what he's done. I thinking he was just laying in wait for anyone that trespassed on his property. I also think mental capacity is definitely in question here.


BATAVIA, Ohio -- Irritated but calm, Charles Martin called 911 and told the dispatcher that he had finally done something about the neighbor boy -- the one, Martin said into the phone, who had been harassing him for years.

"I just killed a kid," Martin said, according to a recording of the Sunday afternoon call released by police in Union Township, near this city about 20 miles east of Cincinnati.

Martin, 66, is charged with murdering 15-year-old Larry Mugrage, who lived next door to the house where Martin kept a meticulous front lawn with grass that he could sometimes be seen measuring to the inch.

Police said crossing that lawn is what got Mugrage killed. Martin, who lived alone, told officers he'd had several disputes with neighbors about walking on his grass, but hadn't called police since 2003, Union Township police Lt. Scott Gaviglia said.

In the 911 call, Martin, a retired Ford Motor Co. worker with no criminal record, told the dispatcher that Mugrage had been "making the other kids harass me and my place, tearing things up."

"I shot him with a (word deleted) .410 shotgun twice," Martin told the dispatcher.

"You shot him with a shotgun? Where is he?" the dispatcher asked.

"He's laying in the yard," Martin said.

Mugrage, who police said was hit in the chest, was pronounced dead at a hospital.
__________________

 

[Yakwoman]

Personally, I don't care if the guy was pissing his name in the grass with one hand and flipping him the bird with the other. There's no reason to shoot a kid in the chest.

You're absolutely right. There is no excuse for the shooting of this boy. All I was pointing out was the fact that it all could have been avoided if the boy had been taught some respect.

I love you, DP - so let's just agree to disagree.

 

[proadvocate]

A great time to bring back public execution.Just lay the guy out in his precious yard,insert a couple of iV's and let him watch the grass grow as his pathetic life drips away.

 

[eve]

I don't know whther the kid was or wasn't harrassing the murdering lawn fanatic! I was just saying that when it comes to disturbed people like this, anything can provoke them, so the usual antics of kids probably would -- in fact, even a little footprint on his perfect 2" dewy grass probably would!

There is NO excuse for what this nutjob did! I agree with all of you who said that, I wouldn't care if the kid was peeing on his grass or whatever, it isn't a justifiable taking of a life!

All I'm saying is that kids need warnings that all people are not as stable as the rest of us! (LOL! I hope we are!)

It doesn't matter whether the kid was harrassing the guy or not, because now he's dead. No comfort if he wasn't. No justification if he was. I would just want my kid to avoid even the appearance of impropriety when it comes to a nut like this and steer clear even though I know they shouldn't have to walk on eggshells. There's just no way you can anticipate the criminal acts some engage in.

A college kid and his mom and sister were mugged here in MPLS last weekend and the woman handed over her purse and the robbers still shot her son. He just died. People were trying to comfort themselves (imo) about the safety of the uptown area and were saying things like: "Well they must have been in an alley or they must have provoked it somehow." Well, they didn't! They were doing absolutely nothing wrong and but for the grace of God go us all.

Eve

 

[concernedperson]

Remember BTK was an ordinance enforcer for the city and went around and measured grass for compliance. Of course, no one knew he was a cross dressing, murderous pervert at the time. Not even his family.

Any of these aberrant behaviors should be reported.It is not normal to be obsessed with grass. Or threats, even if a kid is taunting you. Kids have a habit of doing this because they think they can. Parents need to be more world wise and inform their children that there are wacko's out there. Not just a medical diagnosis of bipolar or depression can cause these aberrations but deep seated psychosis is a more likely cause. So, the next time you see someone obsessing over something trivial it could be in the best interest of your community to at least inform LE and not discount it to eccentricity.

Eccentrics in my mind are little old ladies with tons of cats or dodads all around their homes. But never threatening. Never abusive.

 

[Boilly]

Yakwoman - I totally agree with you! This is about more than some sweet, innocent kid walking on his neighbors lawn every now and then. This man has been described as nice and normal and wasn't identified as a strange, mentally- ill person who you had to avoid either. He waved at the kids as they rode by on their bikes? Perhaps he quit calling the cops after they didn't do much for him in the past. I think this kids parents are re-thinking where they could have helped this situation a bit more instead or participating in the harassment.

 

[bbmcrae]

For those of you convinced that this situation culd have been avoided if the boy had been "taught some respect"...

It's possible this kid was obnoxious and rebellious. Many teens are. What a news flash!

But this guy shot him for walking on his lawn. He has a selfish, arrogant, twisted way of viewing the world. He decided to be this boy's judge, jury and executioner over what is essentailly nothing. I would say he would have snapped on someone else for something eventually.

This is NOT the kid's fault in any way. Unless there is some okay time to murder unarmed people for petty reasons that I haven't heard about yet...

 

[Wrinkles]

Not knowing all of the facts...

It seems that this wasn't about "grass." It seems that this was about a disrespect for boundaries and the value of honoring another person and that which is theirs. It also appears that it was about maliciousness and a desire to overpower another person. In effect, it appears that someone's foolish willfulness chose to start a war. Lives can be lost when war is chosen.

It is sad that it appears that a young man purposefully chose to attempt to overpower an older man for a very foolish reason (extremely foolish and unwise in my opinion.) This wasn't about a 3 or 4 year old accidentally wondering onto the neighbors lawn, although children can be taught to ask for permissions at such an age and prior to trespassing to retrieve that which is theirs. Would that every parent taught their child to respect that which is another's!

It will be interesting to learn the facts of this case. Assuming that this wasn't a one time trespassing mistake that undid the man who killed the boy, that it was a repetitive disrespectful act on the part of the boy... It will be interesting to learn if this old man sought the assistance of the parents of this boy to stop the war AND learn their response, if he did. It will be interesting to learn if the old man sought the counsel of a lawyer to find out that which he would have to do IF the parents did not respond to his pleas for assistance in stopping trespassing. There is little less appealing than to have to EARN and pay 10's of thousands to protect that which seems to be an understood and that which, in my opinion, the law should protect, i.e. ownership of person/property of EVERYONE per ownership laws.

I don't want the body or personal space of my children or my grandchildren (or my neighbors or friends or strangers) and I invaded, AND I have worked to teach my children that there is a price that can and maybe will be paid by not respecting the body and personal space of others. Excuses for not honoring others and that which is theirs are not acceptable, accountability is taught.

Choices guide that which occurs in our lives... There are good and respectful choices. There are bad and dishonoring choices. It is extremely sad when bad choices lead to that which ends in death.

I know that there are rebellious children, I had two, and one of mine was. I knew that the rebellion of one of my children could lead to their death. I did not want their foolish choices to lead to the hurt or death of them or others.

Is my son's liberty more important than your mother or father's liberty, than your little girls protection of her body? NO AND NO!

This situation is the pathetic result, it seems, of people not respecting others.

Wrinkles

 

[concernedperson]

The bottum line is you don't kill people over grass. Sorry about boundaries. I like boundaries too. This is too lame to excuse someone with a compulsive behavior.

 

[Wrinkles]

Ah... I forgot to say that I would like parents held responsible for the death of their children in circumstances such as this, IF they did not work to help in the peace with the neighbor. I KNEW that I could do much to sincerely let others know that I was trying my best to raise my son in a way to respect them. Those who knew my struggle did NOT ignore it, they worked with me. They KNEW that I was approachable, they KNEW that I wasn't blowing them off because I had such "mommy love" that I consider that THEY were NOT important.

"Mommy's boy" is NOT more important than my neighbor who is the son of another mother.

Wrinkles

 

[Details]

"Harassment" - to someone insane, looking at them is harassment, anything might be harassment and intimidation and even threats in their mind.Which celebrity was it who recently was given a restraining order by some nutcase judge to stop 'harassing' a woman who thought he was speaking to her in code on his TV show?

She said he was harassing her - but that's just the product of an insane mind. He blew up over someone accidentally mowing a foot into his yard! He killed over a kid taking a shortcut across his front yard - he's a nutcase, so barring more info, to me, his statements about harassment and such are meaningless.

I can't see it being about boundaries - your front yard isn't that much yours, unless you put up a fence - solicitors walk over it, visitors walk on it, etc. Sure, he'd like the world to be different, for grass to be counted as fine china - but that's not reality. Kids will walk on the grass - just like cats and dogs and such will - if you want them off, you have to put a fence up.