VERDICT WATCH OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #85

[gizmobtj]

Yes. It isn't just AW and JW placing George 4 at the murders, it is also Beth testifying about George 4 conspiring with his family what to do if any of them were jailed. I don't believe George 4 committed the murders himself. I do believe George 4 conspired with his family to carry out these murders. Which is what George 4 is on trial for, I am not surprised George 4 took the stand, I will be shocked if he walks.

Interesting. I was shocked. It seemed like a big risk. My feeling was that he did paint a sympathetic, polite and non-monster portrait. However, the prosecution's theory rang true -- you may have been a victim of being in this family, but you are sane and you made choices to go along with most of what was done and you certainly were not forthcoming. He had so many opportunities-- BCI gave him so many opportunities. The only sympathetic portrait of him not taking them up on them, in my opinion, is that truly did not believe his family was involved. If nothing else, if he is convicted, his testimony could mitigate his sentence. But since there are 8 murders, I suspect, that will be of no functional relevance

 

[Johnny B Bad]

No what I was saying is count 22 referencing Rico? Because it has a specific time frame.

I’ll stick with murder because that’s what he helped do and if he doesn’t get convicted than I would say that GW4 will have to leave Ohio forever or live the rest of his life looking over his shoulder from now on, (To Many Victims) JMO

 

[arielilane]

AW testified that George planned, prepared for, carried out and attempted to cover up the murders, and about the bloody shoe print. JW testified he was present for the murders, helped plan and plot the murders, wore a ski mask and Walmart shoes and SKS rifle that night.

TC testified to physical abuse by GW4. Beth testified in fear of her life. We’ve heard his abusive and aggressive behavior, threats to BCI agent and abuse towards people and animals.

It is the totality of the preponderance of evidence presented by the prosecution.

The prosecution’s evidence met their responsibility of defendant’s guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt”, IMO. Reasonable is the key factor here.

Moreover, GW4 has NO solid alibi. His lied about his alibi! First he went to bed at 12:30 am and then he testified to a 10:00ish pm bedtime on the night of the murders. Yet, he has no one to substantiate this.

Interesting how defense had not even one text message or a picture to support GW4 claim that FR was his best friend.

MOO, always considered that AW was at the murders too, and that would leave no one home with the kids. One reason she took the plea deal. Nobody will rat her out but then maybe BW may.

This is all in my opinion only and MOO.

 

[justtrish]

Re: the interviews not being played. I keep going back to the defense didn't choose to play it either. They could have if it was so great for George, If it proved that BCI asked him to spy. I mean does it sit better for them to not play it and insinuate George was asked to spy or does it sit better to play it and see that they never said that. Sorta makes your client look like a liar if that isn't what is said. Maybe the you can be a witness or you can be a suspect is what he heard and then decided to twist that into, I was asked to spy. So now not playing it allows him to say he was asked to spy.

If there was no recording the defense wouldn't have read from the transcript of it. I recall one of the defense lawyers asking someone about the witness/suspect thing and he read that quote from a paper. If there was no recording, he wouldn't have done that.

George also said he heard Jake's proffer. He testified to that. If Jake ever said, my brother didn't know anything, didn't participate, and still doesn't know (because according to George he didn't know until he heard Jake had confessed so during the proffer Jake would have said to this day George knowns nothing). This will be a big shock to my brother because he had no part in these crimes and he thinks we are being framed. I think if that was ever said at any time during Jake's proffer, then the defense would have highlighted that. They didn't, they said Jake admitted to killing all 8. They never said Jake first told you George knew absolutely nothing. Do we really think the defense would not say that if in fact Jake sat down with them and said, "my brother still doesn't know we did this".

 

[Myland]

Wasn't it SW who told them they had given Bullvine some medicine Kool aid?

Jmo wasn’t referred to as sleepy kool aid? To me to call it Sleepy kool aid tells me they have said before to the kids.

 

[Bridginadentata]

Welcome!

Yes they can.

The charges include:
8 counts of Aggravated Murder
Felony conspiracy
Aggravated burglary
Unlawful possession of a dangerous ordinance
Tampering with evidence
Forgery
Unauthorized use of property
Interception of wire and oral communications
Obstruction of justice
Engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity

Don’t forget though- These charges are in relation to this specific case- not his lifetime of crime. I’m not sure they proved any of this in relation to this case without reasonable doubt. JMO

 

[justtrish]

Wasn't it SW who told them they had given Bullvine some medicine Kool aid?

I am curious if they just had some juice drink (snacks given by BCI to the kids) and it looked like the stuff AW said she sometimes gave them. I believe AW admitted to giving the kids sleepy stuff sometimes (I'll have to go back and look now for the tweets) and George on the stand said he thought maybe they gave him something because he gets anxious (even though no way BCI would have given a kid any medicine without parents permission.. no way) Lordy I wonder what does a 3 year old get anxious about? Maybe all the yelling and carrying on in that house and not being able to see his actual mother? So I think it could have been as innocent as that if one of the kids said something about sleepy medicine. Maybe AW used to put their medicine in juice or the medicine tasted like juice so when BCI gave them snacks it looked like that or tasted like it.

I also think AW just looked for reasons to accuse people of this stuff. Wouldn't surprise me if she wasn't asking the kids what they were given, who talked to them, etc. I mean we see what George thought about Tabby at the border. I wish someone would have asked him about that. He was just as paranoid as his mother.

 

[iulia]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1593997100743884802

 

[gizmobtj]

I have a feeling most of the jurors know the Wagner family and know they’re habitual criminals and liars. After they violently murdered 8 innocent people, they probably look forward to having them permanently locked away.

What a menace they’ve been to the community, to local businesses and the economy. GW4 didn’t seem at all bothered or apologetic about his lifetime of criminal behavior.

The amount of poaching, arson and theft they’ve committed is staggering. I still don’t understand how they got away with so much insurance fraud.

They were nor alone though. A lot of the others mentioned in the trial had crimes tied to them. Those crimes to murder might feel like a stretch.

Along those lines, what's curious to me is why the defense didn't try to drag Skid Montgomery, his sons, GW4s grandfather's and others in to muddy up reasonable doubt. I suppose they picked the synergy of the Jake killed them all theory because it would exonerate George and undermine Jake. Just comes down to "Why would Jake lie?" and "Why would Angela lie?" They could have gotten a deal for just for putting Billy under the prison. Why they would not lie seems simple-- when they started talking, they had no idea what BCI had at the moment they started talking.

Such a sad story.

 

[gizmobtj]

Last comment on this from me about whether Audio of George at the border. Video at Day 21 part 2 L&C at 52:10 it starts and another poster posted that link as well at last thread post #858. Ryan explained that by law it is REQUIRED to Audio (at least) record the interviews. Period! IMO if there was no Audio of George, that could be a technicality to get this case thrown out. And Ryan clearly states they did Audio record the interviews. IANAL but I believe there's Audio of George's Interview for these reasons. I would need to HEAR this audio that Angela C kept referencing to George but would not PLAY nor would she provide him the TRANSCRIPT when he defended what she said he said by saying "that's not what I said" (my words but to that effect). If I need it, I think some on the jury may need it too. My opinion at this point is he may not have been involved in the planning and he may not have been involved in the execution - I find it hard to believe he didn't know about it after the fact but I don't think that has been proven IMO. And I think that by law he is not required to rat out a family member. I see reasonable doubt. By who am I? I'm not on the jury so we shall see. IANAL IANAL IANAL IMO IMO IMO. HA HA

Are you sure the audio rule is not by BCI policy as opposed to law or court presdedant? Recorders can't always be available for spotaneous confessions

 

[Myland]

Don’t forget though- These charges are in relation to this specific case- not his lifetime of crime. I’m not sure they proved any of this in relation to this case without reasonable doubt. JMO

Jmo I was trying to say the same thing about the time line. The prosecutors put in a specific time frame for the crimes and George while he admitted to crimes they did not fall into that time line.

 

[Skully67]

All JMO,this is a huge disappointment for any who have followed from the beginning. You have 4 suspects, 8 murders and 4 crime scenes. I don't know how it could have been presented differently. The jury needed the backstory, the family dynamics and the 6+ years of investigation. IMO, there was still more to be presented.

I'm surprised the defense did not call more witnesses, like FW or RW but then they may have been pulled in to the case and they didn't want that.

I know the defense does not have to prove innocence but I think it was a mistake to put GW on the stand. The jury has a tremendous amount of evidence to look at but wouldn't you, if you were on the jury already have a gut feel of what happened and who is guilty of the crimes? Anyone think the trial came to an abrupt halt for whatever reason?? You name it.

Yes. I felt the trial ended abruptly. Kind of an anticlimax.

 

[Pru2U]

I agree that Angela planted that Kool-aid seed, but that seed could have taken root. I know this is going to sound horrible, because IT IS:

Little pitchers have big ears and little S was sharp, think of all she picked up from Angela. She could have just as easily made the suggestion to please Angela. It's a terrible thought but not unlikely considering how much time she spent with Angela & her paranoia/jealousy. I'm so thankful those children weren't under her influence any longer than they were.

 

[justtrish]

They were nor alone though. A lot of the others mentioned in the trial had crimes tied to them. Those crimes to murder might feel like a stretch.

Along those lines, what's curious to me is why the defense didn't try to drag Skid Montgomery, his sons, GW4s grandfather's and others in to muddy up reasonable doubt. I suppose they picked the synergy of the Jake killed them all theory because it would exonerate George and undermine Jake. Just comes down to "Why would Jake lie?" and "Why would Angela lie?" They could have gotten a deal for just for putting Billy under the prison. Why they would not lie seems simple-- when they started talking, they had no idea what BCI had at the moment they started talking.

Such a sad story.

I think all that muddies up their story. The more people they put on the stand, the more of a chance one of them says something not favorable to George and then the state could pounce. If George wasn't there/didn't know, then how does a drug person help at all? They can't provide an alibi for George, they aren't adding anything because this wasn't a drug deal gone wrong, I doubt they knew about the fake meeting between Billy and Chris Sr. I was wondering how they would help the defense. I really think they put all the eggs in the George testifying basket. I just kept thinking what is the defense because people saying George is a nice guy, they knew him and he was a good worker, etc wasn't really a defense. If they were going to called all those other witnesses, I don't think George would have taken the stand. They had to go one way or the other. Create a lot of confusion with all the other witnesses or put George up there. There were 3 different people with the last name Walls on the defense list, Skid Montgomery, and maybe one or two others.

 

[Chelly]

Yes. I felt the trial ended abruptly. Kind of an anticlimax.

It did end abruptly. Judge Deering wanted this case over before Thanksgiving week.

 

[arielilane]

I have a feeling most of the jurors know the Wagner family and know they’re habitual criminals and liars. After they violently murdered 8 innocent people, they probably look forward to having them permanently locked away.

What a menace they’ve been to the community, to local businesses and the economy. GW4 didn’t seem at all bothered or apologetic about his lifetime of criminal behavior.

The amount of poaching, arson and theft they’ve committed is staggering. I still don’t understand how they got away with so much insurance fraud.

Agreed.

Will forever sadly remember how they not only took away innocent people, but left these children without family, their beautiful mother Hanna May, grandparents Chris Sr. and Dana, uncles Chris Jr., Gary and Frankie and an aunt Hannah Gilley (Frankie's fiancee) and a cousin Kenneth.

My apologies if titles are incorrect. Feel free to make any corrections. IMO

 

[Pru2U]

Are you sure the audio rule is not by BCI policy as opposed to law or court presdedant? Recorders can't always be available for spotaneous confessions

Scheiderer said "required by law" but I don't remember whether or if it was said; a state or federal law.

 

[justtrish]

Agreed.

Will forever sadly remember how they not only took away innocent people, but left these children without family, their beautiful mother Hanna May, grandparents Chris Sr. and Dana, uncles Chris Jr., Gary and Frankie and an aunt Hannah Gilley (Frankie's fiancee) and a cousin Kenneth.

My apologies if titles are incorrect. Feel free to make any corrections. IMO

It is such a shame.

I am thankful they spared the children.

As much as they worried about molesting of children, they sure had zero issues with leaving kids orphans and having to grow up knowing their parents were murdered while they were in the house or even in the bed with them.

 

[Pru2U]

Agreed.

Will forever sadly remember how they not only took away innocent people, but left these children without family, their beautiful mother Hanna May, grandparents Chris Sr. and Dana, uncles Chris Jr., Gary and Frankie and an aunt Hannah Gilley (Frankie's fiancee) and a cousin Kenneth.

My apologies if titles are incorrect. Feel free to make any corrections. IMO

I started to post similar sentiments last night. Every time things get off track, we need to bring all victims; including their families, friends and loved ones back to the forefront.

This trial is about JUSTICE.

 

[gizmobtj]

If he’s found guilty of conspiracy and/or Aggravated Burglary, he is automatically considered guilty of Aggravated Murder. In Ohio, Aggravated Murder is defined as “causing” the death of a person. That includes being part of the conspiracy to plan it or being present at the scene of the crime when it happens. Under conspiracy, you don’t have to be present at the scene. Like Charles Manson.

Are you sure it's not that you can automatically be charged? I think all of counts have to be voted on and juries often return illogical results