VERDICT WATCH OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #85

[justtrish]

Everyone agreed. I guess the defendant can choose when to testify. It's a big decision on their part. You're probably right about the locals and the flights and such. I ponder too much.

I think everyone is trying to be accommodating to each side when circumstances arise. I hope the jurors realize that and it sounds like the judge has been careful to remind them when witnesses were out of order and why. I just wasn't sure how common that was because I haven't watched an entire trial as fully as I have this one. I think this case being so publicized and unique also makes the ideas run wild too. Maybe it's just simple sometimes and we all make it complicated. LOL

 

[rsd1200]

Well according to the reporter who tweeted, he was very calm when he described in gruesome detail how he killed everyone.

JMO

The 10 minutes I heard sounded calm but his thinking seemed disorganized. He looked under doors to see if they were awake, yet, he saw them look up? Idr if it was on transcript or the audio bite, but he added G3, who wasn't originally placed there, IIRC. That kinda made me wonder if he was in the size 11 shoes and G4 really wasn't there, JW made an error? Just odd.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Quick question though. Don't they have his 12 hour interview recorded and doesn't the defense have it? As for the Chris call, I thought Rita had done something similar to that but did not realize Chris had. How long was the call? Wad it brought out in Chris's cross?

They have the 12 hour interview but not the conversation that takes place before or after the interview.

Hubby is a federal investigator and they do not record interviews at all. By law they don't have to.

JMO

 

[rsd1200]

I think everyone is trying to be accommodating to each side when circumstances arise. I hope the jurors realize that and it sounds like the judge has been careful to remind them when witnesses were out of order and why. I just wasn't sure how common that was because I haven't watched an entire trial as fully as I have this one. I think this case being so publicized and unique also makes the ideas run wild too. Maybe it's just simple sometimes and we all make it complicated. LOL

I think the jurors will get it right. There was so much we didn't personally see or hear on our end. I'm looking at the case of the four college students in Idaho while we wait. Very different. Someone had a drone flying it around the property while LE worked the scene. Nothing like that on this case. I wish peace for the R and HHG families this holiday season in knowing at least JW and AW , and G3 and G4, will be eating turkeyspam from a tray that probably is stamped; For use in zoos and jails only.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

She got JW on board, then she turned to Mommy Dearest or Mommy D had her lawyers buzz up AC. I didn't remember when the calls were and, tbh, too tired to look. I knew someone would! Thank you. I have always thought AW saw the writing on the wall after JW confessed and, I don't buy her, "I couldn't let JW take it all" act either, she didn't want to die. She said she would but she didn't when she was staring it down and didn't know for sure what was in JW's deal (btw,can you imagine what that felt like to G4 if he's innocent?!).

I agree.

 

[elliebug2015]

And why do people think GWIV’s word is the God’s honest truth?

No one should be doing that either. lol I go back and forth on what I think about George and the things that he has said. I think I've listened to his testimony 3 times now mulling it all over. But for myself personally, when I stand back and look at the entire picture and all the lies Jake has told and the pure evil that is him and Angela and then look at the evidence there is enough reasonable doubt that I myself could not convict him. Jake changed his story 2 or 3 times before AC accepted one. What were his first statements? Jake said on the stand that his memory isn't that great. So again just for me and me alone, I can't necessarily believe that his story is true or that what he said on that stand is true.

 

[Pru2U]

I see your point, why would a brother go against his brother? They do it every day. Murder even. I just don't see how she could get this case won w/o JW and could she win the case with only JW? JW started out with him alone taking credit. That's when AC interjected during opening and I couldn't understand why; b/c JW had changed his story and they were not playing the tape that the defense was quoting from, the MT audio. That's my theory and it's a huge hole. Not trying to change your mind, either, just trying to explain why I didn't think they reached Beyond A Reasonable Doubt standard. Maybe I was hoping for too much after six years. Not hitting back with G4's audio really bothers me too. It was the only interview he was given. If we were in the jury pool we'd be trying to sway one another though, so the discussion is a good thing. Some may be having similar discussions when they come back next week.

As far as I can tell, everyone is irritated or at minimum confused over that darn interview. I do know the elusive interview exists because a) Scheiderer testified it was required by law to record it and b) AC referred to it during cross exam.

Here’s my thoughts:

I believe prosecutors chose not to play it prior to GW taking the stand because it would provide testimony by George they wouldn’t be able to question him about. I also believe they did not seriously anticipate GW taking the stand.

Here’s where it gets fuzzy for me because everything was out of order at that point (at least for me) I don’t know if prosecution rested before defense or vice versa. Either way, I think it was too late to play the tape at that point though - for whatever reason. Maybe they couldn’t get the BCI agent there in time to testify. Maybe there was a legal reason; I feel like she couldn’t play it on cross though because it hadn’t been introduced. I don’t know about rebuttal. Maybe they weren’t set up for it because they never planned to play it - and they obviously didn’t plan on GW testifying. We saw that! I don’t know, that’s just my thoughts- I honestly don’t know and listening to reporters discuss it, it doesn’t seem like anyone understands it.

To be honest, it looked to me like it was some fancy footwork & slick dodging a bullet by the defense. I’ve got to give credit where credit is due: the defense came out super strong ending with GW (& whoever prepped him did a great job). It was indeed their shining moment.

 

[Chris_p_bacon]

In order to believe George's testimony we have to believe that for the first time ever there was a major plan going on in his house for months, purchases being made with his accounts, items bought, guns bought he didn't know about, conversations happening he never overheard not one, mom didn't vent to him about anything or discuss something as she rubbed his back one night (had to mention this lol), he literally had blinders and earplugs on for 3-4 months. Then he happens to give his dad money for a murder truck, and doesn't ever ask what happened to it or where it was or why, doesn't want repaid, just hands over 2500 from his safe and forgets all about it. Then his dad is over the night of the 21st and it's the first time since at least before Jan of that year he's there and it's not questioned at all just goes to bed at 10pm wakes up and even saying he would have heard someone leave because he'd here them, never heard anything, never overheard it discussed after, never saw weapons being cut up, never questioned a thing, just assumed BCI is framing us. Didn't overhear mom, dad, or Jake say anything after the fact, told Jake he should have burned a laptop and I think it was a phone because he again thought they were being framed. Screaming and raging on all those recordings, even terrifying his son because BCI again is framing them. Then when his brother confesses that is the first time he had ANY idea there was a plot and all that has been shared was going on while he lived in a house and was by all other witness testimony and accounts equally as involved and connected to family meetings and decision making and voting on life choices for everything else and they heard it, saw it, and knew about it from before AND after the murders. Nothing changed from before and after.. still talking, meeting, planning, voting, and anyone not in those 4 were excluded from those meetings.

Then if we believe all that, we also have to believe that BCI is actually trying to frame him, Jake and Angela both were able to match their stories of framing George all because they had no deal if they didn't lie and say George was there. The prosecution bribed them with deals and basically is blackmailing them to lie so they can get all 4 of them and frame George because he really is 100% innocent of any and all planning, participating and covering up of this crime.

Now not only that we have Jake's lawyers and Angela's lawyers also agreeing to allow them to lie or be coerced into getting on the stand and lying just so the state can frame George.

Then we have the recorded proffer that George's lawyers and George have heard. They heard it. Do you think if Jake said my brother didn't do anything, didn't know, had no idea until I confessed at any point during that proffer that the would play it they would say that, they would be screaming that. If anyone said to Jake you must implicate George or no deal, they would have been all over that. Just because it wasn't played for us does not mean there is conspiracy where EVERYONE involved in this case is in on it.

Then we have George's lawyers who would have to know recordings don't really exist of him at the border, but allow AC to reference them and read from them AND they themselves even read from them, but there really was no recording or transcript where George said any of what was read in court for him. And because NEITHER side played the recording there must be something hidden on it that proves he was innocent and is now being framed? AND the judge would also now be involved because he would surely know if BCI agents "messed up" and didn't record an interview and is now claiming they did and both lawyers are reading from a transcript that never exists? He literally heard arguments over playing these recordings vs not playing them. I think if there wasn't actually a recording at all he would know that, the defense wouldn't have argued to play it. They have all discovery so if there was no recording, they would have said that was never turned over to us, but they didn't say that they wanted to play it. They can't play it if they don't have it and so why wouldn't they then say, judge we have no recording of that interview.

Do I believe someone in LE can mess up, yes they are human. Do I believe they would get on the stand and lie no. Do I believe if they did lie on the stand and the defense had any proof of that they would expose it YES.

This isn't a case where one mistaken or one bad apple would have been at play in order to create this "Framing of George". Nearly everyone in this case would have to be in on this and I just don't believe that. Just because we want to hear recordings and we think if there was nothing bad on it, then they would play it, etc doesn't mean there isn't a reason (other than they must be framing George) that it isn't played. When the defense could have also played these recordings, I just don't see how anything helpful to George would be on it or they would have played it also.

Exactly. I believe every single word you wrote is what the situation is. He was in on it from the beginning and is only now trying to save his skin by telling more lies.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I see your point, why would a brother go against his brother? They do it every day. Murder even. I just don't see how she could get this case won w/o JW and could she win the case with only JW? JW started out with him alone taking credit. That's when AC interjected during opening and I couldn't understand why; b/c JW had changed his story and they were not playing the tape that the defense was quoting from, the MT audio. That's my theory and it's a huge hole. Not trying to change your mind, either, just trying to explain why I didn't think they reached Beyond A Reasonable Doubt standard. Maybe I was hoping for too much after six years. Not hitting back with G4's audio really bothers me too. It was the only interview he was given. If we were in the jury pool we'd be trying to sway one another though, so the discussion is a good thing. Some may be having similar discussions when they come back next week.

It was testified in court that Jake said he did it all.

JMo

 

[RAISINISBACK]

And why do people think GWIV’s word is the God’s honest truth?

Maybe because he is not a confessed and convicted killer like Jake and Angie.

JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Stop the back and forth snark and barbs and personalizing in this discussion.

Nobody wants to be on Time Out when the verdict comes in

 

[Cool Cats]

Quick question though. Don't they have his 12 hour interview recorded and doesn't the defense have it? As for the Chris call, I thought Rita had done something similar to that but did not realize Chris had. How long was the call? Wad it brought out in Chris's cross?

The mention of Chris Newcomb helping Angie and Jake talk on a speaker phone with each other was addressed by Canepa in Court.

OH - 8 Family Members Murdered, Pike Co., Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION*

CC, please include the relevant links for the above testimony. Thanks! Just link to the court hearings for RN where this was discussed would be good. Was it this one? Media & Timeline NO DISCUSSION - Pike Co, OH 8 Family Members Murdered

www.websleuths.com

August 28th 2019
Rita Newcomb's Revocation Hearing Part One.
One hour 19 minutes in.

Canepa says:

There's a point December 28th, (2018) and this was after December 8th, there was a call there (to Rita's mom's house where Rita was living during her house arrest to take care of her mother) where Chris (Newcomb) was allowing Angela and Jake - who were both on speaker phone - and they were talking to one another.

They brought that to the Court's attention and said they were facilitating that and the Court made it clear that that was not permissible and Robin was present, Robin Wagner was present in the courtroom at that time and she took that to heart and felt she wasn't allowed to talk to anybody. On December 28th Angela says the only people I'm not allowed to talk to is Billy, George, Jake, Rita and Freddie.

I remember at that Hearing Canepa said to Robin that she could talk to them and she mentioned Robin and Billy had a close relationship and they could talk but not about the Case.

Eventually Angie, because of her calls, got her phone and mail privileges suspended. She could still receive magazines and books.

Discovery evidence shows that on the day of Jake's guilty confession in Court, while her phone privileges were still suspended, that Angie called someone from the phone in her jail. Then a little later that week she made one or 2 other calls. You can't call inmates in jail, they call you so there was no way she could have talked to Jake after his confession. We don't know who she called or if she had special permission to make those calls.

The fact she made those calls shows me she was pretty shook up over his confession.

 

[rsd1200]

As far as I can tell, everyone is irritated or at minimum confused over that darn interview. I do know the elusive interview exists because a) Scheiderer testified it was required by law to record it and b) AC referred to it during cross exam.

Here’s my thoughts:

I believe prosecutors chose not to play it prior to GW taking the stand because it would provide testimony by George they wouldn’t be able to question him about. I also believe they did not seriously anticipate GW taking the stand.

Here’s where it gets fuzzy for me because everything was out of order at that point (at least for me) I don’t know if prosecution rested before defense or vice versa. Either way, I think it was too late to play the tape at that point though - for whatever reason. Maybe they couldn’t get the BCI agent there in time to testify. Maybe there was a legal reason; I feel like she couldn’t play it on cross though because it hadn’t been introduced. I don’t know about rebuttal. Maybe they weren’t set up for it because they never planned to play it - and they obviously didn’t plan on GW testifying. We saw that! I don’t know, that’s just my thoughts- I honestly don’t know and listening to reporters discuss it, it doesn’t seem like anyone understands it.

To be honest, it looked to me like it was some fancy footwork & slick dodging a bullet by the defense. I’ve got to give credit where credit is due: the defense came out super strong ending with GW (& whoever prepped him did a great job). It was indeed their shining moment.

I just know that tape will bug me til the day I die. It may have been fancy footwork, or, they may have just told him, it's now or never, we suggest... and G4 decided what to do. One thing I doubt G4 can do if convicted, Is get a plea based on his attorneys' representation. I just can't see it. Based on his charges, and the intricacies of this case, I thought they did extremely well. The judge repeatedly asked if he was pleased with his representation as well. He wasn't just being courteous to G4.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

The 10 minutes I heard sounded calm but his thinking seemed disorganized. He looked under doors to see if they were awake, yet, he saw them look up? Idr if it was on transcript or the audio bite, but he added G3, who wasn't originally placed there, IIRC. That kinda made me wonder if he was in the size 11 shoes and G4 really wasn't there, JW made an error? Just odd.

I think Jake told so many lies he doesn't remember what the truth is. According to the tweets he told many things that contradicted what he said even minutes before.

I honestly think Jake was so high on drugs or mentally ill and delusional that night that he really doesn't know who was there and who wasn't.

Kind of like some mentally disturbed people who swear the TV told them to go kill someone.

Or as in Andrea Yates case God told her to kill her 5 children.

We have heard that God told me to do it excuse many times.

Then we have people who drink so much they black out and don't remember what they did the night before.

Or take so much meth they kill someone and don't remember doing it.

But we all do know one thing for sure. Jake lied from the very beginning. We have him and Angie lying in so many news interviews. Then in many BCI interviews.

But we have never heard an interview from George nor did he do any news interviews with reporters. So we do not have George lying at all before they were arrested like Jake and Angie did.

Nor can we prove he was lying on any of the wiretaps since he did not address his being there, only that Jake and Angie convinced him that BCI was trying to frame them. Add in Attorney Clark who also told him that BCI might try to plant things on him and would listen in to all his calls and put bugs in his home and vehicles.

JMO
JMO

 

[iridized]

Regarding the interview recording - I think most likely it was discussed in the judge's chambers and that it was ruled that it could not be admitted into evidence or agreed by both parties for whatever reason to not discuss it during trial. Reasons to never be known.

 

[SuziQ]

Verdict watch? Don't tell me I missed closing arguments? Did I miss closing arguments?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I think the jurors will get it right. There was so much we didn't personally see or hear on our end. I'm looking at the case of the four college students in Idaho while we wait. Very different. Someone had a drone flying it around the property while LE worked the scene. Nothing like that on this case. I wish peace for the R and HHG families this holiday season in knowing at least JW and AW , and G3 and G4, will be eating turkeyspam from a tray that probably is stamped; For use in zoos and jails only.

That is where I am going too.

 

[iridized]

Verdict watch? Don't tell me I missed closing arguments? Did I miss closing arguments?

No. Jurors are not even due back into court until the 28th.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I just know that tape will bug me til the day I die. It may have been fancy footwork, or, they may have just told him, it's now or never, we suggest... and G4 decided what to do. One thing I doubt G4 can do if convicted, Is get a plea based on his attorneys' representation. I just can't see it. Based on his charges, and the intricacies of this case, I thought they did extremely well. The judge repeatedly asked if he was pleased with his representation as well. He wasn't just being courteous to G4.

He can get a mistrial if the jury was snickering and doing eyerolls during his testimony. That would show extreme bias and prejudice toward him by the jury. That is why I said I did not think Derring would have allowed that to go on.

JMO

 

[Jbootneil]

i see this thread says “verdict watch.”

Is a verdict actually expected this week? Or if not, how long is the maximum time it can take to get a verdict? Thanks