VERDICT WATCH OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #85

[Lisams83]

Im a few pages back on here....reading posts about the shoes.
Im confused as to why George would tell Angela or Billy(cant remember which one) that he didn't wipe all the shoe prints away.
I think I've heard they got the shoes to frame a older rhoden family member....so why would George need to wipe the prints away.
It doesn't make sense for them to wipe prints away if they had shoes on that the person they wanted to frame would wear. Surely they would plant that kind of evidence to throw the investigation away from them.
Maybe im mistaken or have missed something.
JMO

 

[Puzzles8]

I don't think some people understand how strong circumstantial evidence is. How it adds up and gets people convicted all the time. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence against George that adds up plus 2 co-defendant's testimony on top.

It's almost like some people want a video of George committing the murders and George to admit it himself.

There is enough for the jury to find George guilty of at least some charges that will give him a long sentence.
Highly doubtful the jury is going to acquit him of all 22 charges.

Could George end up with 22 not guilty verdicts? Of course. Jurors are unpredictable, who knows what they think? But they saw and heard more than we did so we have to accept their ultimate decisions on all 22 charges.

If the jury lets him walk out and go back to FWF then I just hope some jurors give interviews to the media clearly explaining why and how they came to the conclusion that the prosecution did not prove each of the 22 charges beyond a reasonable doubt.

Opinion only.

Agree, it's one thing to have a little circumstantial evidence, it's quite another to have a massive amount of circumstantial evidence. IMO, at some point it just keeps adding up and the result becomes obvious.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

But how many of those thousands who may have bought those same shoes from Walmart, were then later investigated/charged with murdering 8 people?

Amd I can't come up with a way that anybody, shoe expert or not, that could say what shoe somebody was wearing at a specific date and time unless they themselves saw them wearing those specific shoes. So, IMO, who wore the shoes in this case is not the most important issue thate the State is trying to put forth, but rather more important IMO is that the State wants to show that the shoes were purchased by AW prior to the murders as part of the planning (and of course that AW and JW say they were worn by JW and GW the night of the murders (and no, I don't believe everything those 2 say, but that's up to the jurors, not me). JMO

The shoes are strong circumstantial evidence and circumstantial evidence often gets defendant's convicted.
I could write up a long list of how the shoe prints are strong circumstantial evidence against George but people have already firmly made up their minds about it.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

But how many of those thousands who may have bought those same shoes from Walmart, were then later investigated/charged with murdering 8 people?

Amd I can't come up with a way that anybody, shoe expert or not, that could say what shoe somebody was wearing at a specific date and time unless they themselves saw them wearing those specific shoes. So, IMO, who wore the shoes in this case is not the most important issue thate the State is trying to put forth, but rather more important IMO is that the State wants to show that the shoes were purchased by AW prior to the murders as part of the planning (and of course that AW and JW say they were worn by JW and GW the night of the murders (and no, I don't believe everything those 2 say, but that's up to the jurors, not me). JMO

Do you have any theories on why she bought 2 pairs of shoes if 3 men were going?

Just wonderin'

JMO

 

[pamelado2]

There's a pic on their Farm page of G4 in old shoes or boots of some sort. Muck boots and work boots around a farm are usual. Maybe while driving trucks or riding horses for training and pleasure, cowboy boots might be worn.

I've never heard that in testimony. Interesting. Do you remember what day that was? That would make G3's print, stand out even more. edit: The size 11, it seems was GW4's by JW's testimony. JM2

I'll look for it, I haven't saved anything so if anyone can remember - the quote was something about "specialty size" that stuck in my head

 

[Cool Cats]

Agree, it's one thing to have a little circumstantial evidence, it's quite another to have a massive amount of circumstantial evidence. IMO, at some point it just keeps adding up and the result becomes obvious.

JMO

Wow, someone agrees with me. Thanks. We could write out a long list of the circumstantial evidence against George but like I said, everyone has already made up their minds so no point.

 

[NWLady]

Do you have any theories on why she bought 2 pairs of shoes if 3 men were going?

Just wonderin'

JMO

No, I don't, but I wish I did.

 

[Puzzles8]

Wow, someone agrees with me. Thanks. We could write out a long list of the circumstantial evidence against George but like I said, everyone has already made up their minds so no point.

As they say, 'It ain't over until the Fat Lady sings'

Stay tuned!
JMO

 

[Skully67]

No, I don't, but I wish I did.

Probably because that's what BW told her to do. She was only following instructions.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Rosin is sticky, it's used to improve grip. Ask a rodeo cowboy if he wants his hand to slip out of the rigging. They aren't using talcum powder.

The fiddle bow needs to grip on the strings, or you just get a light hissing sound. People use rosin on the fiddle bow, it's not hard to see the piles of rosin on the fiddle after an intense session.

What do bull riders put on the rope?


rosin

Roughstock riders use glue, called rosin, to help their grip on the riggin' or rope. You'll often see the cowboys apply it to their gloves and heat the glue by rubbing it into the rope they hold onto.Jul 27, 2021

What does rosin do to a bow?

When a rosined bow is drawn across strings, the rosin's stickiness creates enough friction to create a grip on the string,
Cowboy Essentials: What Equipment Cowboys Bring to Every Rodeo
Off topic anyway. I'm done. This stuff is easy to google, don't have to take my word for it.

O/T

I don't need to take your word for it, my great nephew is a bullrider. Rigging is not made from rope. It is made from cowhide. The cowhide is soaked in warm water to make it pliable then twisted so when it dries it becomes hard. When they bring it over in a suicide wrap you will see them hit the rigging that is wrapped around their hand to settle it tightly down onto their glove. The rosin often comes up like dust when they hit it if they put a lot on. When they come off the bull they pull the end of the rigging to release it so it falls loose. If it doesn't the rider is often thrown and dragged under the bull, or yanked around to the point his shoulder is pulled out of socket.

Some great video on here of riders whos hand didn't release from their rigging. Also great video of a friend of mine who is 5 time world champion bullrider. the music is not bad either.

ETA: Bullriders make their own rigging and never uses rigging made by someone else.

JMO

 

[ColMustard]

I suppose some people are free to make up their own facts.

 

[Cool Cats]

Do you have any theories on why she bought 2 pairs of shoes if 3 men were going?

Just wonderin'

JMO

Why would Billy want the wife he "divorced" and quit living with, and quit hanging around with, buy his shoes?
He was perfectly capable of taking care of his own shoes or boots or whatever he wanted to wear.

George, Angela and Jake were living together and shopping together, all at Walmart together without Billy when she bought the shoes. Obviously she was still buying things for them so it makes sense she bought their shoes.

Billy had his mom to buy things for him, which she did on-line, he was living with her. I don't mean she bought him murder shoes, but Billy had a life away from Angela that centered around his mom and dad and sister, not his "ex wife."

All 4 of their phones were not even shown being together until the night of the murders. According to George, Billy stopped by just a couple times a week with doughnuts for the children.

Just my theory on it.

 

[justtrish]

Wow, someone agrees with me. Thanks. We could write out a long list of the circumstantial evidence against George but like I said, everyone has already made up their minds so no point.

I agree also. Many people agree. We've stated many times what we see, why we think what we do and what evidence we see and it does nothing but go in circles.

Billy was showing up to a drug meeting. He was supposed to be there. He was there often so his shoes being there would not be odd or out of place. He didn't need Walmart shoes to go to Chris Sr house for a planned meeting. Maybe they burned the shoes Billy was wearing as well. How would they prove his shoes were there if they were burned up? I think the mistake was Angela keeping that receipt. They likely didn't even need the Walmart shoes, but maybe they didn't have a pair of old shoes or boots that they wanted to burn up after the crimes. The problem was the receipt for them that was found. If they all used an old pair of shoes and burned them, then a bloody shoeprint might not have matched to anything or been traced back to them. Angela then lied about the shoes, then asks for a lawyer. Criminals usually aren't perfect and it was good police work that identified those prints, then traced it back. Instead of thinking that, we are questioning why the criminals didn't buy 3 pairs instead of 2. I don't see Billy wearing those shoes. Think about the body armor his mommy bought him because she was afraid for him. She said he didn't wear it. I don't see Billy doing anything Billy doesn't want to do. It could be a simple as he didn't want a pair of Walmart shoes.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I agree also. Many people agree. We've stated many times what we see, why we think what we do and what evidence we see and it does nothing but go in circles.

Billy was showing up to a drug meeting. He was supposed to be there. He was there often so his shoes being there would not be odd or out of place. He didn't need Walmart shoes to go to Chris Sr house for a planned meeting. Maybe they burned the shoes Billy was wearing as well. How would they prove his shoes were there if they were burned up? I think the mistake was Angela keeping that receipt. They likely didn't even need the Walmart shoes, but maybe they didn't have a pair of old shoes or boots that they wanted to burn up after the crimes. The problem was the receipt for them that was found. If they all used an old pair of shoes and burned them, then a bloody shoeprint might not have matched to anything or been traced back to them. Angela then lied about the shoes, then asks for a lawyer. Criminals usually aren't perfect and it was good police work that identified those prints, then traced it back. Instead of thinking that, we are questioning why the criminals didn't buy 3 pairs instead of 2. I don't see Billy wearing those shoes. Think about the body armor his mommy bought him because she was afraid for him. She said he didn't wear it. I don't see Billy doing anything Billy doesn't want to do. It could be a simple as he didn't want a pair of Walmart shoes.

It doesn't matter how many times Billy was at Chris Sr's if he stepped in blood, his bloody shoe print would be out of place.

JMO

 

[rsd1200]

Come on!!! you never rode bareback? lol

Hackamore and bareback. I trained on English but never showed. I liked to ride the fields and herd. I put a bridle on for the kids, and they ride theirs bareback, if they want a saddle, they can ask for help. They were all into saddles til I started making them help drag them out and pull the cinches. Bareback it is.

 

[Cool Cats]

I agree also. Many people agree. We've stated many times what we see, why we think what we do and what evidence we see and it does nothing but go in circles.

Billy was showing up to a drug meeting. He was supposed to be there. He was there often so his shoes being there would not be odd or out of place. He didn't need Walmart shoes to go to Chris Sr house for a planned meeting. Maybe they burned the shoes Billy was wearing as well. How would they prove his shoes were there if they were burned up? I think the mistake was Angela keeping that receipt. They likely didn't even need the Walmart shoes, but maybe they didn't have a pair of old shoes or boots that they wanted to burn up after the crimes. The problem was the receipt for them that was found. If they all used an old pair of shoes and burned them, then a bloody shoeprint might not have matched to anything or been traced back to them. Angela then lied about the shoes, then asks for a lawyer. Criminals usually aren't perfect and it was good police work that identified those prints, then traced it back. Instead of thinking that, we are questioning why the criminals didn't buy 3 pairs instead of 2. I don't see Billy wearing those shoes. Think about the body armor his mommy bought him because she was afraid for him. She said he didn't wear it. I don't see Billy doing anything Billy doesn't want to do. It could be a simple as he didn't want a pair of Walmart shoes.

Great post!

Agree. Just going in circles and Billy did only what Billy wanted to do. Billy didnt need or want Angela's Walmart shoes.

Angela left a receipt leading the crime scene shoe prints right into her lap. Then she gave a fake story of buying shoes her boys hated so she threw them out, and George and Jake deny they saw the shoes. Totally caught them off guard.

Angela, the one who would sell anything, even stolen goods - selling even in AK - would not throw out new shoes. She had the receipt and would have gotten her money back or sold them.

Angela said she showed both "boys" the shoes and they hated them. Both "boys" say she never showed them the shoes.

Geeze, do you think there is a lie in there somewhere?

2 Cents

 

[justtrish]

It doesn't matter how many times Billy was at Chris Sr's if he stepped in blood, his bloody shoe print would be out of place.

JMO

Of course any bloody print would be out of place. I don't believe anyone planned to step in blood and leave prints.

 

[justtrish]

Great post!

Agree. Just going in circles and Billy did only what Billy wanted to do. Billy didnt need or want Angela's Walmart shoes.

Angela left a receipt leading the crime scene shoe prints right into her lap. Then she gave a fake story of buying shoes her boys hated so she threw them out, and George and Jake deny they saw the shoes. Totally caught them off guard.

Angela, the one who would sell anything, even stolen goods - selling even in AK - would not throw out new shoes. She had the receipt and would have gotten her money back or sold them.

Angela said she showed both "boys" the shoes and they hated them. Both "boys" say she never showed them the shoes.

Geeze, do you think there is a lie in there somewhere?

2 Cents

Just one of many many lies/inconsistencies.

 

[Cool Cats]

Just one of many many lies/inconsistencies.

Yup!!!!

 

[rsd1200]

I agree also. Many people agree. We've stated many times what we see, why we think what we do and what evidence we see and it does nothing but go in circles.

Billy was showing up to a drug meeting. He was supposed to be there. He was there often so his shoes being there would not be odd or out of place. He didn't need Walmart shoes to go to Chris Sr house for a planned meeting. Maybe they burned the shoes Billy was wearing as well. How would they prove his shoes were there if they were burned up? I think the mistake was Angela keeping that receipt. They likely didn't even need the Walmart shoes, but maybe they didn't have a pair of old shoes or boots that they wanted to burn up after the crimes. The problem was the receipt for them that was found. If they all used an old pair of shoes and burned them, then a bloody shoeprint might not have matched to anything or been traced back to them. Angela then lied about the shoes, then asks for a lawyer. Criminals usually aren't perfect and it was good police work that identified those prints, then traced it back. Instead of thinking that, we are questioning why the criminals didn't buy 3 pairs instead of 2. I don't see Billy wearing those shoes. Think about the body armor his mommy bought him because she was afraid for him. She said he didn't wear it. I don't see Billy doing anything Billy doesn't want to do. It could be a simple as he didn't want a pair of Walmart shoes.

Good point. I very much don't doubt that G3 was there. One thing that I don't think that JW made up, was G3's reaction after the murders at CR1's. I said that man was NOT the mastermind. He is a criminal and was a decently successful one, but he had a partner in crime, who kept pushing him along (AW). I think the business stuff got mixed with personal, afa CR!, and he carried a grudge against CR1 and AW was the impetus, for both of them to act. The pastor spoke about G3's reaction toward his little dog dying, could've been over more than his dog he was crying over. He may actually have remorse. Idk. I don't read it in JW's testimony, nor AW's.