OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #53

[Loomis124]

I will message - where the public is allowed to do -

and ask them about it because they are the ones who posted a photo of
the actual documents on line, where we can read the one page.....

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/custodyjpg-jpg.215503/

Thank you, CC!

Also, Fox 19s reporter posted it on Twitter, as referenced several times on the past few pages. His name is long and difficult.

 

[Cool Cats]

How is it "established" if HR wasn't there? Angie and Jake LIED.

You can see Jake's signature on the Affidavit Document and that Bruce Daily notarized it.

I am talking only about the Affidavit Document taken out April 28th 2016, not the fraudulent Custody Documents downloaded and filled out before the murders on or about April 3rd 2016, that is a different one, it's fake with fake signatures. Rita's faked sig and probably HR's faked sig.

Tisk tisk...What Angela did to her mother..........!

 

[Loomis124]

You can see Jake's signature on the Affidavit Document and that Bruce Daily notarized it.

I am talking only about the Affidavit Document taken out April 28th 2016, not the fraudulent Custody Documents downloaded and filled out before the murders, that is a different one, it's fake with fake signatures. Rita's faked sig and probably HR's faked sig.

Thanks for being here, CC. It's good to have someone to converse with!

 

[Cool Cats]

Thanks for being here, CC. It's good to have someone to converse with!

ditto...

 

[Sleuthinsleuther]

You can see Jake's signature on the Affidavit Document and that Bruce Daily notarized it.

I am talking only about the Affidavit Document taken out April 28th 2016, not the fraudulent Custody Documents downloaded and filled out before the murders on or about April 3rd 2016, that is a different one, it's fake with fake signatures. Rita's faked sig and probably HR's faked sig.

Tisk tisk...What Angela did to her mother..........!

Where is a copy of this? I can’t find a pic tysm

 

[Cool Cats]

Where is a copy of this? I can’t find a pic tysm

Just one page you can see. I'm going to sleuth around to see if the 2 partys who posted these, will post more. Posted by MSM.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/custodyjpg-jpg.215503/

 

[Cool Cats]

Hello everyone, Lucky here with a couple questions...
1. While I understand there's a ton of evidence I'm sure we've not seen, just on what's available up to today, do you think these um, man yall gotta let us swear just a little, people did this?

2. Do you think it's a waste for the state to seek the DP knowing Ohio in all likelihood will not start them back? I'm not against a death sentence but just the financial cost to convict, house, etc that and I still don't believe it deters anyone. Especially when the majority of murderers are narcissistic and don't believe there are any consequences cause of course they'll never get caught. MOO(yep I figured out what it meant lol)

F. Do you think or believe that FW will still catch a charge or 6? I still firmly believe shes in this up to her hairline. I think that prosecutors jumped to quick on her and should keep digging if they aren't still. Of course it's my opinion only but as much as I've read about AW being behind it, I dont know how but again firmly believe FW is involved too. I'm probably wrong but man that particular feeling is strong with me.

Finally, would you have, if your the prosecution or judge restrict or allow their communications with family and co defendants? I'd let em keep talking . I mean you record calls already, you screen their mail already. Have the "special" visitation are that's bugged to the hilt and just let em sing. AW already has proven shes a talker and lacks common sense. Or am I on the wrong path with that thinking???
Lucky out

My opinions to your questions:

#1.) The GJ - Prosecutors - the State of Ohio - and BCI - all believe there is enough evidence to prove guilt. DeWine said the people who did this are in jail.

#2.) Websleuths doesn't want death penalty discussions because it's pointless, people will believe what they believe. I think a little can be said though, such as I believe it should be up to the 3 families - Rhodens, Gilleys - Manleys - and to do what is best for the 2 kids who will have to live with the constant 20 years of death penalty appeals and resulting publicity. Might not be in their best interests.

#3.) With FW, the prosecution needed more time to go over new evidence or else they would have gone past the speedy trial deadline that FW did not waive.
Her Case was:

6/26/2019 MOTION TO DISMISS WITHOUT PREJUDICE

Which means the charges can be brought back. However, it has now been going on 7 months and nothing has happened. The longer nothing happens the less likely something will happen unless new evidence has turned up or will turn up.

#4.) Remember, 3 of them (not Angie) are allowed to make phone calls, just not to each other, and they are listening to those.
They can't let them talk together, they need to see if one of them might confess and take a plea. Together, they can bolster their stories and reassure each other to stand firm together etc... Or talk someone out of a plea deal. Angie told her mom what to say and not to testify against them, she would do the same to the rest of them. Together they are stronger, apart they are weak and vulnerable and more likely to "crack."

 

[Puzzles8]

Oh...and of great importance, Judge Rosenberger is related to the Wagners. JMO

You're correct, that would be of great importance.

Please link your source and his relation to the Wagners.

JMO, MOO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

You can see Jake's signature on the Affidavit Document and that Bruce Daily notarized it.

I am talking only about the Affidavit Document taken out April 28th 2016, not the fraudulent Custody Documents downloaded and filled out before the murders on or about April 3rd 2016, that is a different one, it's fake with fake signatures. Rita's faked sig and probably HR's faked sig.

Tisk tisk...What Angela did to her mother..........!

Can you sleuthers see what Hanna and Jake where doing, first of all SW was born in 2013, Big Chris worked for himself, Dana worked in a nursing home neither one had a medical card for Hanna May, while Billy Wagner was on disability social security and Angela Wagner was a house wife with no family medical care, Jake told the news reporter that he and his brother drove a truck for themselves and Jake was only 19 at the time so you figure those 2 didn’t have any medical care for their little trucking company, so SW was probably born with the state paying the hospital bill that was around $14,000 after that little SW had to have prenatal care so that was probably paid by state card also, SW might have still been getting state aid all the way up to Hanna May going to work at the nursing home, so if you think about it Jake owed the state of Ohio around $100,000 thousand dollars in back child support, so if he went thru state child care to get custody of SW and did the DNA testing, the state of Ohio would ask for their money back and Jake wasn’t about to start paying Hanna May child support while she was dating other men, all of you know by now the Wagners does not like to pay money to anyone, JMO

 

[Dudly]

Jake might spend the rest of his life in prison. S needs a permanent family. I will bet a million dollars that DCS did a DNA test to make sure there isn't another father out there where S could be placed. And if so, it would hit the news like a ton of bricks when discovered by S's "real bio dad family."

I do not believe 15 year old Hanna slept with anyone but Jake the week she got pregnant. What did she do? Sneak off to spend the night with someone else when they were planning to get married and got ring tattoos? When they were living back and forth between the 2 families?
I don't understand these rumors that she is not his kid.

I don't consider it a rumor. It is based on how things were done by JW, and/or, not done. I have never heard him say, she is mine and I can prove it. He talks about her looking like him, etc., but never talks about proof. He has not, to my knowledge, said his name is on the birth certificate, or that he has DNA proof. Why is that? How is it a judge would give him even temporary custody without absolute proof he was her father. If the judge got that proof, it was not made public to my knowledge. It is all not normal on how these things are done. My thoughts and opinions only, as usual with no links...

 

[Dudly]

Jake might spend the rest of his life in prison. S needs a permanent family. I will bet a million dollars that DCS did a DNA test to make sure there isn't another father out there where S could be placed. And if so, it would hit the news like a ton of bricks when discovered by S's "real bio dad family."

I do not believe 15 year old Hanna slept with anyone but Jake the week she got pregnant. What did she do? Sneak off to spend the night with someone else when they were planning to get married and got ring tattoos? When they were living back and forth between the 2 families?
I don't understand these rumors that she is not his kid.

What if it was not voluntarily? Just a possibility. My opinion only...

 

[Dudly]

Updated: 10:29 PM EST Nov 15, 2018
Court docs: Suspect filed for custody of child at heart of Pike County investigation days after slayings

NEW YORK DAILY NEWS |
Nov 18, 2018 | 10:15 AM
Ohio suspect accused in massacre of eight members of different family filed for custody of daughter six days after slayings

In the Court of Common Pleas - Juvenile Division - Pike County Ohio
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/custodyjpg-jpg.215503/

"WLWT obtained court documents...."

"According to the affidavit..."

In an affidavit signed by Jake Wagner, he said he and Hanna Rhoden had "approximately equal time with Sophia since her birth."

"Jake Wagner's mother, Angela Wagner, signed a similar affidavit."

In this link you provided, on line 10., JW says he is "a de facto guardian", it does not say I am her father. Why? On line 10.a., he says "I am sure that Sophia is my child". He offers no proof like his name on her birth certificate or DNA proof, or offers to do a DNA test from what I can see. Just my observations...
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/custodyjpg-jpg.215503/

 

[Loomis124]

I don't consider it a rumor. It is based on how things were done by JW, and/or, not done. I have never heard him say, she is mine and I can prove it. He talks about her looking like him, etc., but never talks about proof. He has not, to my knowledge, said his name is on the birth certificate, or that he has DNA proof. Why is that? How is it a judge would give him even temporary custody without absolute proof he was her father. If the judge got that proof, it was not made public to my knowledge. It is all not normal on how these things are done. My thoughts and opinions only, as usual with no links...

I agree, Dudly. Good post.

 

[crazyhorse60]

I have a question. Isn't little S's last name Wagner on her birth certificate? Can that be done without listing Jake as the father?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

de facto guardian (top line)

Stef DiPietrantonio on Twitter

Here's the kind of custody Jake was trying to get Hanna to sign over before she died, and the custody he received after she died. This is where the guardianship document comes into play. Hanna's signature was forged after she wouldn't sign. It's interesting in the affidavit portion we saw, he never stated he was her father. JMO

I have never thought he was her bio father. To me she doesn't even look like him. First question we all asked is why kill 8 people to get custody? Why not just take the mom to court. Courts these days automatically award joint custody unless one parent is unfit. From what we knew Jake wasn't an unfit father so why kill over custody. Answer: he wasn't SW's father. But I guarantee he knew who was and so did Hannah's family. That's why they all had to die to keep the secret.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

A couple of things. This copy of the bill shows it was introduced, but was never passed by the GA or signed into law. Is it law or not, just curious.

So are you saying Jake is not the bio father of S? Because if he was, all he needed was to submit to DNA testing to prove he was S's father. It would be much simpler than killing a bunch of people in the process of trying to get HMR to sign this kind of custody agreement.

Seems unusual a jilted lover would kill 8 people in an attempt to gain custody of two kids who weren't his. Really bizarre.

It's also possible he was superstitious about submitting to DNA testing. Perhaps concerned his DNA might be in some database somewhere for other reasons?

That was DeWine's exact word. Bizarre. He said this case would leave people shaking their heads.

 

[Betty P]

That was DeWine's exact word. Bizarre. He said this case would leave people shaking their heads.

I had never really entertained this idea until all of you here brought it up. It would be incredibly shocking (as if this case wasn't shocking enough) if JW did all this for custody of a child that wasn't even his. What's the expression? "That boy ain't right in the head".

ETA: I do recall a case several years back of a guy who kidnapped a friend's young daughters after killing the parents. He was close friends with the family. LE managed to find them quickly to rescue the girls. It was bizarre.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Jake might spend the rest of his life in prison. S needs a permanent family. I will bet a million dollars that DCS did a DNA test to make sure there isn't another father out there where S could be placed. And if so, it would hit the news like a ton of bricks when discovered by S's "real bio dad family."

I do not believe 15 year old Hanna slept with anyone but Jake the week she got pregnant. What did she do? Sneak off to spend the night with someone else when they were planning to get married and got ring tattoos? When they were living back and forth between the 2 families?
I don't understand these rumors that she is not his kid.

For me they are not rumors since I have heard nothing of the kind, for me it is just my own thoughts, my own conclusion. DNA only works if there is something to match it to. If the bio father has never had a DNA test done and there is nothing on record, the only thing a DNA test would do is rule out Jake and CG. Don't forget the mysterious 3rd man (who's name we never learned so could not have been CH) that was in the running for KR's bio dad.

There is some reason Jake skirted around outright declaring he was SW's father in a court document and never presented a DNA test as proof.

Hannah was a young girl. Sex out of marriage or a relationship is no longer the huge taboo it once was. Kids now days think nothing of engaging in a night of sex with friends or strangers and there is nothing wrong with that if they practice safe sex. It is no slur on a girl's character if she wants to have sex with men. Her body, her choice, her right.

In my own opinion as far as a parent goes, it's not who plants the seed but who raises the crop that makes it theirs.
JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

For me they are not rumors since I have heard nothing of the kind, for me it is just my own thoughts, my own conclusion. DNA only works if there is something to match it to. If the bio father has never had a DNA test done and there is nothing on record, the only thing a DNA test would do is rule out Jake and CG. Don't forget the mysterious 3 man (who's name we never learned so could not have been CH) that was in the running for KR's bio dad.

There is some reason Jake skirted around outright declaring he was SW's father in a court document and never presented a DNA test as proof.

Hannah was a young girl. Sex out of marriage or a relationship is no longer the huge taboo it once was. Kids now days think nothing of engaging in a night of sex with friends or strangers and there is nothing wrong with that if they practice safe sex. It is no slur on a girl's character if she wants to have sex with men. Her body, her choice, her right.

In my own opinion as far as a parent goes, it's not who plants the seed but who raises the crop that makes it theirs.
JMO

In the Court document Jake was referring to himself as how he was legally perceived, not how he is biologically. That's normal for court documents. I can't wait for the trial that will unequivocally show S is a Wagner, no doubt in my mind.
And Jake didn't need a DNA test for paternity per Ohio law. Just the Sworn Affidavit which he and Angela signed.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Right. The Affidavit I am referring to is the one taken out 6 days after the murders which of course HR did not sign.

Jake wanted custody but he had to have a reason to want custody. Jake's reason is that he had helped raise S since a baby, he had financially supported her, he wanted to give her Medicaid and be able to enroll her in school etc... and that he is the REAL father. He had photos and claimed S had the family hammer toe and his physical features.

Then Angela also signed the Affidavit as well as providing photos.

Without a DNA test, which apparently he did not have, paternity cannot be established without swearing under oath and signing a Paternity Affidavit - then the Court has to officially accept it. If the Judge wanted to, he/she could have asked for the DNA test but it appears that the Sworn Affidavit was enough in Jake's case to legally prove he is the father.

All my opinion and we won't know for sure unless there is a trial where all this will come out. I do not expect most posters to agree with my conclusions as it seems many doubt that S is even related to Jake - that there is this "mysterious bio dad" out there somewhere.

...2 Cents Only...

Funny that he never said right out "I am her father" under oath. He said he "considered himself as her father since he raised her from birth". Then she brought a photo album instead of a DNA test to court as proof and that infamous "hammertoe". Makes me wonder why.

JMO