OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #54

[Betty P]

Agree, that if CRsr was beat up, as it appeared to be to BJM (what she said on the 911 call) then the perpetrator(s) must have left DNA on the body, or in relation to the blood trail. Just dragging the body, or both bodies, through to the back bedroom would have left evidence, no matter how minute.

The case could be made that Jake's DNA was in CRsr's home because he may have been there a lot throughout his relationship with HMR & daughter... but no one has ever said GW4 had been friends with, or been in any Rhoden home - same for AW.

Fred did say Billie & CRsr were longtime friends - maybe trying to justify that his DNA would be on scene at CRsr's home - doesn't explain if his DNA was found at the other homes.

Just thinking out loud. MOO/JMO

Agree, it's possible killers left DNA in the struggle and fight with CR Sr. Finding any killer's DNA at that crime scene is relevant based on where at the crime scene DNA was found and the type. If, for example, the killer's DNA was extracted from a blood spatter or smear where the victims bodies were left, it doesn't matter how often they may have visited CRSr's trailer. Their attorney will need to explain how they managed to leave blood smears inside CR Sr's bedroom. If it was co-mingled with the blood of the victims - same problem. JMO, the same problem exists if it was a blood stain found in the living room or elsewhere. If you're a casual acquaintance, its not easy to explain the presence of your blood anywhere inside the trailer.

Conversely, if any of the victims' blood or tissue is found inside the killer's automobile, they'll have a difficult time explaining that.

Add it together with their cell phone and text records, hacking into the family's social media accounts and cell phones, etc. plus motive - its going to be nearly impossible to explain away. Doesn't matter which of the 4 W's DNA is in evidence, those circumstances look bad for all. And the state wouldn't be including that DNA evidence in discovery if they didn't stand a chance of it holding up in court.

 

[Betty P]

IMO MOO

I think Ws sliced out blood stains from the interior, then got it repaired. However, they missed some, like maybe in the carpet or door panels, even the headliner.

This could be the fatal flaw in their strategy: Using one of their own vehicles during the murders, then not immediately and thoroughly destroying it. Same with the weapons. How many times have you seen LE extract blood and DNA evidence from vehicles that were "cleaned up" by killers? Too numerous to mention. Were this crime committed by professionals/cartel, all of that evidence would be at the bottom of a deep river or lake, or smashed to bits at the bottom of a landfill.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I bet the morning that Angela, Billy, Jake and George was setting at Fredericka kitchen table talking about how they figure that Jake and probably Billy might get arrested for the Rhodens murders, if so George and Angela was to try and break them out of jail (possibility during prisoner transport) but who, when and where was this crew going take revenge on Mike DeWine, Charles Reader and the BCI agent’s this was the scary part of it, because the Wagners has already killed according to State Evidence ? JMO

 

[dgfred]

I think the multiple shots prevented any struggle from CR Sr... so no killer blood stains.

IMO camo, head covers, gloves, silencers, boots, etc

I also think they were on foot and had maybe four-wheelers waiting in the distance... or just walked the entire way. So no vehicles driven and time to clean up four-wheelers later.

The prior cell phone stuff and hacking could be because of domestic stuff (stalking).

Do we know anything besides 'included DNA evidence'? like who/where?

 

[Amishcar]

This could be the fatal flaw in their strategy: Using one of their own vehicles during the murders, then not immediately and thoroughly destroying it. Same with the weapons. How many times have you seen LE extract blood and DNA evidence from vehicles that were "cleaned up" by killers? Too numerous to mention. Were this crime committed by professionals/cartel, all of that evidence would be at the bottom of a deep river or lake, or smashed to bits at the bottom of a landfill.

Watched some True Crime show yesterday and blood was found inside the door panel after the panel was pulled away from the body of the car. Blood can seep into all sorts of places not just surface areas. People don't seem to think of the inside of the door panel areas during their outer surface area clean ups. Pulling off door panels can be a pain depending on the car model. I pull apart my Saturn SL2 door panels and it's not always super easy even with the knowledge how to do it.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I think the multiple shots prevented any struggle from CR Sr... so no killer blood stains.

IMO camo, head covers, gloves, silencers, boots, etc

I also think they were on foot and had maybe four-wheelers waiting in the distance... or just walked the entire way. So no vehicles driven and time to clean up four-wheelers later.

The prior cell phone stuff and hacking could be because of domestic stuff (stalking).

Do we know anything besides 'included DNA evidence'? like who/where?

How do you think that the killers got their gun, cell phone jammer, all the Rhodens trail cams and surveillance cameras/VCR and traveled from Dana’s house to Kenneth house is 8 miles apart, gathered his surveillance system, and then went home on foot/or on 4 wheelers, I really can’t see how they did it and got home before day break, JMO

 

[Berrybell]

I am beyond interested in the planning/carrying out the actual murders. I keep thinking about how easily the 'plan' could have gone to you-know-what. Somebody awake with a stomach ache, insomnia, baby not sleeping, etc
I am still fascinated how it all happened.
I think about how instead of having dinner together or something... they planned to wipe out an entire family. Crazy

The planning is what brothers me too. I cannot wrap my mind around planning the murder of 7 adults and 1 adolescent with any feelings of quilt, shame, or horror. How does a family set down together and plan such an atrocity.

 

[Berrybell]

Unfortunately (probably fortunately) not. I was on the other site at that time, and do have some key things saved. But I do believe the discussion of these very murders are what shut down that site and I believe all the information was seized and some will be used at trials. JMO

Each and every one of our IP addresses ever used (there or here) are fully known to BCI and background checks have probably been done on all of us, which shouldn't be surprising. All JMO

I agree Loomis. I still think the Wags were on the other site posting and trying to divert blame.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I wonder how bad Rita pleading guilty will effect the Wagners case? JMO

 

[dgfred]

Hey JB. Don't think the guns would be a problem, don't know about a cell phone jammer or the need.
Did they collect the trail cams or destroy them? Did they take cameras or disable them?

I am thinking seperate killers at different locations. Each disables or destroys stuff on their own.

My only problem with this is how far the W's had to return to and where... not sure on distances like you probably are.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I agree Loomis. I still think the Wags were on the other site posting and trying to divert blame.

You could bet the farm Angela and Jake was on the gossip site that got shut down.
The Wagners new that people in that area likes to look at it, JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Hey JB. Don't think the guns would be a problem, don't know about a cell phone jammer or the need.
Did they collect the trail cams or destroy them? Did they take cameras or disable them?

I am thinking seperate killers at different locations. Each disables or destroys stuff on their own.

My only problem with this is how far the W's had to return to and where... not sure on distances like you probably are.

The BCI found a burnt VCR on the farm the Wagners sold, JMO

 

[dgfred]

I think a backpack or sack would do for holding any extras.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I think a backpack or sack would do for holding any extras.

What kind of gun do you think was used?

 

[Berrybell]

Not sure, but probably not until the trial or unless some details of evidence are brought up in pre-trial hearings. I wish it would be otherwise, but the state has been careful about keeping evidence under wraps.

When does everyone think the trials will begin and who will go first?

I am not sure who will go first but I do think it will be the States strongest case with the most evidence, hoping the rest fall like dominos.

 

[dgfred]

Semi-auto pistols (because of catch-bags mentioned) with home-made silencers. Maybe .22 or 9mms. Revolvers would not have needed catch-bags but maybe one of them too.

 

[Amishcar]

Hey JB. Don't think the guns would be a problem, don't know about a cell phone jammer or the need.
Did they collect the trail cams or destroy them? Did they take cameras or disable them?

I am thinking seperate killers at different locations. Each disables or destroys stuff on their own.

My only problem with this is how far the W's had to return to and where... not sure on distances like you probably are.

With cameras that are hooked to a recording device Hard Drive or VCR all you have to do is remove the device that collects the video. You don't have to remove the cameras. Worked at a Market Research firm years ago and removing the tapes VHS and Audio tapes removed all evidence of anything recorded without even having to remove the VCRs or Audio recording devices. Now trail cams often just record to memory cards and removing a memory card is easy to do. Used them in cameras we used when i worked at Kodak now if those images are transmitted to a recording device then the device has to be removed as well. We used image collecting computers for sales of the photos we took. So all the computers would have had to been removed as well. But i doubt the Rhodens had complex computer systems collecting all their info. Once again two different sites are said to have had cameras. CRSR place and KR place. Both of those places probably had one recording collecting device if that. Removing two devices as long as you know where they are isn't too hard. Pull wires and collect the recording device.

 

[dgfred]

If they burned a vcr they likely would have torched any vehicle they might have used too IMO.

 

[Berrybell]

I recall having discussions early on about how the killers would have been nearly deaf that night after all the gunfire in close quarters.

Most marksmen (shooters wear ear protection that muffles load noises and will amplify normal conversations. I have a pair myself and they comfortable

 

[dgfred]

I have a couple of them but both feel like they are crushing my giant gourdhead. Haha