OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #55

[Loomis124]

Rule 404. Character Evidence; Crimes or Other Acts

Crimes, Wrongs, or Other Acts.

(1) Prohibited Uses. Evidence of a crime, wrong, or other act is not admissible to prove a person’s character in order to show that on a particular occasion the person acted in accordance with the character.

(2) Permitted Uses; Notice in a Criminal Case. This evidence may be admissible for another purpose, such as proving motive, opportunity, intent, preparation, plan, knowledge, identity, absence of mistake, or lack of accident. On request by a defendant in a criminal case, the prosecutor must:

(A) provide reasonable notice of the general nature of any such evidence that the prosecutor intends to offer at trial; and

(B) do so before trial — or during trial if the court, for good cause, excuses lack of pretrial notice.
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PLEASE NOTE 2. ABOVE. IMO, this is how the prosecution will be allowed to bring in past bad acts.

 

[Cool Cats]

What I thought I heard the attorney say yesterday was 10 hours of recorded phone conversations...

Your off by at least 990 hours!
Here's what the attorney said about the phone calls:

Attorney:

"One of these discovery disclosure events included hours and hours and hours of surreptitiously taped phone calls, many of which for example were acquired with - well I'll leave it at that.

In order to facilitate our sufficient analysis of that information State's counsel agreed to pinpoint identify what they thought they might use in their Case in Chief so we could narrow down maybe from a thousand hours of listening to, ah, two."

 

[molly1255]

Maybe he didn’t want to give him his DNA because he got hurt, cut,etc... that night and might have left blood or DNA. My opin

I actually hope that he did leave DNA behind! Would make an even more compelling argument at trial.

 

[Betty P]

The Wagners did give their DNA to LE according to the Wagner's Ohio attorney:

"A message was left on Tuesday with John Clark, an attorney who has been representing the Wagners. Clark said a year ago that four of the Wagner family members had provided laptops, phones and DNA samples to investigators, and agreed to be interviewed about the slayings.

Clark said at the time that the family was being 'harassed while the real killer or killers are out there'.

Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine said on Tuesday that the Wagners had been suspects for a long time.

Wagner family charged in Ohio massacre fled to Alaska after killings | Daily Mail Online

So interesting that BJM took 3 and JM took 1 or 2 lie detector tests, but you
never-ever in 4 years hear that the Wagners did the same. Why not? Something to hide? Abundance of caution on the Wagner's part?....Humm...

JMO, I don't think the Wagners did poly exams or submitted DNA until they were arrested. Even then, at arrest a poly exam wouldn't be necessary. Remember Sheriff Reader referring to "all the lies they told us". They consented to interviews, apparently, to "assist"with the investigation, but most or all of what they told LE was a lie. Had they taken poly exams before their arrests, it would have set off alarm bells with investigators.

OTOH, the Manleys admitted early in the investigation that they had submitted to polys and DNA tests, yet they were still hounded.

 

[Betty P]

Rule 404. Character Evidence; Crimes or Other Acts

Crimes, Wrongs, or Other Acts.

(1) Prohibited Uses. Evidence of a crime, wrong, or other act is not admissible to prove a person’s character in order to show that on a particular occasion the person acted in accordance with the character.

(2) Permitted Uses; Notice in a Criminal Case. This evidence may be admissible for another purpose, such as proving motive, opportunity, intent, preparation, plan, knowledge, identity, absence of mistake, or lack of accident. On request by a defendant in a criminal case, the prosecutor must:

(A) provide reasonable notice of the general nature of any such evidence that the prosecutor intends to offer at trial; and

(B) do so before trial — or during trial if the court, for good cause, excuses lack of pretrial notice.
----------

PLEASE NOTE 2. ABOVE. IMO, this is how the prosecution will be allowed to bring in past bad acts.

Defense probably don't want them to bring up info about Jake's past physical abuse of Hanna M Rhoden, or Billy and Angela's "Bonnie & Clyde" routines around the area - waving guns at other drivers on the road, theft from businesses and people they knew, etc.

 

[Chingaling]

Another thing I noticed is that the BCI agent Shiederer{spelling I know} looks at Jake like he thinking "I wish you would try something".

 

[Cool Cats]

I actually hope that he did leave DNA behind! Would make an even more compelling argument at trial.

Remember Jake lived off and on in Frankie's trailer and had a key.
According to locals Jake put up a crib for Kylie at Dana's house because he wanted his DNA to have a reason to be there. There are 3 crime scenes that Jake's attorneys can try to explain away his DNA...Frankie's, Dana's, and Chris Senior's.

Expect all this to materialize at the Rhoden/Gilley' trial.....My opinion only........

 

[Myland]

Jmo but did anyone hear exactly what Angela’s attorney said to her before she left. I believe he was telling her they would be watching those books (I took meaning jail as in don’t do anything wrong) and she basically understood, but the very last part did he tell her to continue to work or that he would continue to work?

 

[Puzzles8]

<mod snip>

I am really confused why AW would wear jail stripes today when she is allowed to wear street clothes. Part of a defense tactic? In any case I would think she wants to appear as innocent to the public as she can. Only thing I can think of is that she is going for sympathy, look at what those awful Wagners have done to me.

IMO, if JW abused HMR, I'd not be surprised if G4 abused his ex-wife as well. Abuse is often a learned behavior. I would not be surprised if Billy abused AW also.

This is completely JMO, MOO, just trying to figure out AW's appearance/wardrobe in court today.

 

[Betty P]

Remember Jake lived off and on in Frankie's trailer and had a key.
According to locals Jake put up a crib for Kylie at Dana's house because he wanted his DNA to have a reason to be there. There are 3 crime scenes that Jake's attorneys can try to explain away his DNA...Frankie's, Dana's, and Chris Senior's.

Expect all this to materialize at the Rhoden/Gilley' trial.....My opinion only........

Just a reminder that may not help Jake. It all depends on the source for the DNA and where it was found at the crime scene. Fingerprint DNA found on the baby's crib is one thing, but finding blood sourced DNA next to Dana's body, for instance, is a completely different matter.

 

[Betty P]

<mod snip>

I am really confused why AW would wear jail stripes today when she is allowed to wear street clothes. Part of a defense tactic? In any case I would think she wants to appear as innocent to the public as she can. Only thing I can think of is that she is going for sympathy, look at what those awful Wagners have done to me.

IMO, if JW abused HMR, I'd not be surprised if G4 abused his ex-wife as well. Abuse is often a learned behavior. I would not be surprised if Billy abused AW also.

This is completely JMO, MOO, just trying to figure out AW's appearance/wardrobe in court today.

I was watching to see if she would wear the prison garb again. That's one of the most unusual things about these pretrial hearings. Can't figure out why she would want to do that.

@Myland Regarding her lawyer talking to her, I didn't hear all of it, but the part where he talked about books was in reference to the judge ordering the jail to let AW have some books someone ordered her from Amazon. The attorney mentioned it to the judge that he didn't think that kind of transaction should be banned under the order she's under. Because of her violating rules to talk to her mother, discussing her case, etc. AW is under a lot of restrictions about phone use, visitors, etc. The jail was refusing to let her take delivery of the books.

 

[NotHammerToed]

Just a reminder that may not help Jake. It all depends on the source for the DNA and where it was found at the crime scene. Fingerprint DNA found on the baby's crib is one thing, but finding blood sourced DNA next to Dana's body, for instance, is a completely different matter.

Agreed. I’d also like to add that Dana’s home was newly purchased. Jake probably wanted to put up that crib to get a layout of where everyone slept. If Dana Was killed in her room, and dna from Jake was left behind as a result, I’m not exactly sure how his lawyer would spin it.

 

[NotHammerToed]

Wonder what kind of books they are? Also will they be checked for tampering in any way?

 

[Fight4justice]

Agreed. I’d also like to add that Dana’s home was newly purchased. Jake probably wanted to put up that crib to get a layout of where everyone slept. If Dana Was killed in her room, and dna from Jake was left behind as a result, I’m not exactly sure how his lawyer would spin it.

It was always my opinion that he went there to put the crib up, not to leave his DNA, but, as you said, to get the layout of the new home that none of the W’s were familiar with. Or maybe even to plant a listening device or camera.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

The Wagners was listen to the Rhodens/ Manley all the way to the middle of year 2017, BCI has proof of the wiretapping the Wagners did. JMO

 

[Fight4justice]

The Wagners was listen to the Rhodens/ Manley all the way to the middle of year 2017, BCI has proof of the wiretapping the Wagners did. JMO

Yes, I had forgotten that they continued to listen to them well after the murders. Trying to get info on the investigation. Not too bright are they, especially if they planned it for months! So much to remember though when committing several murders.

 

[molly1255]

Remember Jake lived off and on in Frankie's trailer and had a key.
According to locals Jake put up a crib for Kylie at Dana's house because he wanted his DNA to have a reason to be there. There are 3 crime scenes that Jake's attorneys can try to explain away his DNA...Frankie's, Dana's, and Chris Senior's.

Expect all this to materialize at the Rhoden/Gilley' trial.....My opinion only........

I completely agree!

 

[Johnny B Bad]

A Pike County grand jury indicated the four suspects for aggravated murder, each with death penalty specifications. Officials said the Wagners spent months planning the crimes and tracking the victims' routines, and face numerous other charges including conspiracy, aggravated burglary, and tampering with evidence

We have followed more than 1,100 tips from the public. We conducted 550 interviews. Served more than 200 subpoenas, search warrants, and court orders and tested more than 700 items of evidence. The team also traveled thousands of miles to ten separate states as a direct result of this investigation," said DeWine.


A coroner said all but one of the victims was shot more than once, including two people shot five times and one shot nine times. Some also had bruising, consistent with the first 911 caller's description of two victims appearing to have been beaten.


Family of four arrested in gruesome slayings of eight people in rural Ohio

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Prosecutors say Billy Wagner, his wife Angela Wagner and two sons George Wagner IV, and Edward "Jake" Wagner methodically planned then killed members of the Rhoden family on April 22, 2016.

Central to the dispute between the two families, prosecutors say, was a custody battle for the daughter of Jake Wagner and Hanna Rhoden - Sophia Wagner.

Included in the evidence list in Billy Wagner's case is an entry named "Custody Messages (1 excel sheet with 519 entries)."

Pike County massacre: Wagners arrested week after ATF report filed

 

[molly1255]

Yes, I had forgotten that they continued to listen to them well after the murders. Trying to get info on the investigation. Not too bright are they, especially if they planned it for months! So much to remember though when committing several murders.

Too much to remember and I think they overestimated their abilities, IMO. One example is JW slipped up in a media interview and then AW corrected what he said.