OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #55

[molly1255]

DBM - double post

 

[molly1255]

BBM
Raisenback, you made the most chilling and accurate statement I have read IMO, "he killed them all to get to her".

I agree!

 

[NotHammerToed]

There is Social Security, Disability Social Security, and Supplemental Security Income. I believe GWIII is getting SSI.

Understanding SSI - SSI Eligibility

Always questioned why he would be eligible for ssi when his mom is a millionaire. Off topic, my apologies.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

BW and AW filed for bankruptcy back around 2005, they put their income as being $500 a month for BW SSI and $300 a month for Snap (food stamps) there was some crimes going on during that time, BW had stolen goods also there was a road rage crime also, I’m trying to find the link.

 

[Dudly]

Just thinking about the 7th grade education. I'm not sure what happened there, but a couple of generations back and more, it was not uncommon for kids, at least in my area, to get full-time jobs after completing the 8th grade to help support their families. Both of my grandfathers fell into this category and they were both very sophisticated in what would have been considered "advanced electronics" in their era. No need to buy a radio, they made their own. No need for a television repairman. They diagnosed and fixed the problem themselves. No need to pay someone to install electrical wiring- they wired their own homes. I'm sure I'm missing a few of their combined electronic skills, but they weren't alone - this was pretty much the norm for many. Unless there is a learning disability involved, people were and are still capable of learning how to do some very complicated things if they are motivated to do so. JMO

My dad quit school at 16 and worked. He did odd jobs and had a welding shop. He made some sawmills for people using wreck Stutz Bearcat cars for parts. He did good for himself.

 

[Cool Cats]

I think the only two things that slipped out of their control was Chris fought back and Kenny dropped off Gary that night at Chris'. So Kenny had to go too. I don't think they knew Gary wasn't there. Or maybe they knew he wasn't supposed to be there and so surprised them when he walked in. Maybe earlier Gary made plans to stay with someone else but decided not to and called Kenny to pick him up and take him home. Kenny would have noticed any strange vehicles on the road. In short I think Kenny's was the only unplanned murder.

No links. just a theory of mine.

*Respectfully snipped by me*

I wasn't around way back when y'all were "throwing theories to the wall to see what sticks" as has been described. So I am intrigued by your theory that Kenny dropped off Gary, was spotted, then had to be killed as a last minute decision.

Would like to hear why you think this?

Remember the dozens of dollar bills thrown on Kenny from his knees down? That seems planned ahead to look Cartel or Drug Gang related. I find it difficult to believe Kenny was not targeted way ahead of that night.

PS..I hope you are feeling better health wise!

 

[molly1255]

My dad quit school at 16 and worked. He did odd jobs and had a welding shop. He made some sawmills for people using wreck Stutz Bearcat cars for parts. He did good for himself.

It sounds like your dad was a real entrepreneur. My dad also quit school young. He was 17. He ended up doing well for himself, too. It was hard work. A good education can be a big advantage in today's world, but I think there is something to be said about the difference of being schooled vs being educated.

 

[molly1255]

Always questioned why he would be eligible for ssi when his mom is a millionaire. Off topic, my apologies.

This is JMO, but my thoughts are that millionnaire mom did not have a trust set up for him that provided him with income.

JMO

 

[IType]

As for AW jail clothes, I think maybe she's trying to get sympathy. If her case does go to trial, I think she will try to say she was bullied into the murders by BW and his family. IMO

I, too, find it interesting no bond reduction requests for JW or AW. I personally feel that FW is behind this sudden request for BW and then GW, trying to throw her weight around to get what she wants for her family. If that were the case, maybe JW's attorney isn't letting FW bully him into filing a motion that he knows will never be granted by the judge since this is a capital murder case. Just a thought.

As for AW having no bond reduction request--if my theory of FW trying to bully the prosecution attorneys is correct--I believe FW wouldn't include AW because she will try to blame everything on AW to make BW and her grandsons look better. JMO

I personally don't see BW being the first one to try and to cut a plea deal because his mother wouldn't allow it--she will never admit her son and grandsons committed murder. Now if one of the other three Wagners were to successfully cut a deal first, agreeing to testify against the others, that might bring BW to secondarily make a plea in order to get the DP off the table. All my opinion.

BBM for correction... should be defense attorneys

 

[RAISINISBACK]

*Respectfully snipped by me*

I wasn't around way back when y'all were "throwing theories to the wall to see what sticks" as has been described. So I am intrigued by your theory that Kenny dropped off Gary, was spotted, then had to be killed as a last minute decision.

Would like to hear why you think this?

Remember the dozens of dollar bills thrown on Kenny from his knees down? That seems planned ahead to look Cartel or Drug Gang related. I find it difficult to believe Kenny was not targeted way ahead of that night.

PS..I hope you are feeling better health wise!

I am feeling better thank you. Still getting tired but it is getting better. Have another appointment with the heart doctor this week.


First let's think about why Kenny was killed. As a great uncle he didn't have a chance of getting custody of SW. I don't think he was any closer to Hannah than any of her other uncles, in fact from April's statement it sounded like James was closer to Hannah than any other uncle. So that means there was another factor in play in his death.

Several things were brought up. That he took a shower at Chris's every morning before work and therefore may have interrupted the killers before they finished all their work. But I think that was unlikely since I think Chris was killed much earlier, between 11:00 PM and midnight. So by the time Kenny came at 5:00 am to take a shower they would have been finished with everyone and home. BJM arrived around 7:00 am. Also according to Donald, Kenny wasn't going to work the next morning so didn't need to stop by for a shower.

Donald was going to stay the night and work on cars with him the next morning. Gary may have made the same plan. Kenny raised and sold MJ. Maybe Donald and Gary planned to stay the night and do a little testing of the product. Or Gary met up with some friends and planned to stay the night there. But for whatever reason Chris was killed earlier than Gary or anyone else Re: autopsy.

If Gary changed his mind about staying the night and asked Kenny to take him back to Chris's or his plan to stay with friends didn't work out he would have called Chris to come get him. But Chris may have already been fighting for his life and the killers were searching the house for money and/or drugs and taking down cameras when the call came in and chris couldn't answer. So Gary calls Kenny for a ride. Kenny takes him to Chris's and lets him out but doesn't go in. Gary walks in and gives the killers a surprise. Keep in mind Gary was killed with two different caliber guns. They both fired because they were surprised. That sounds like the knee jerk kind of reaction if killers are surprised by the door opening when they are in the middle of removing evidence from a murder scene. One was stuck up to his temple as if the killers saw the headlights pull up and hid behind the front door waiting for whoever it was to walk in.

On the other hand we have all agreed the killers parked on the road somewhere close. Kenny knew cars, he worked on them all the time and he would have noticed that vehicle parked close to his brothers house and noted it. If the murders had not happened it would have been a shrug off for him. But once the news of the murders broke the next morning he would have been at the police station ASAP giving them a complete description of the vehicle he saw parked near his brothers house. And whoever was in that vehicle waiting would have seen Kenny and recognized his vehicle. So he had to die too. You don't leave witnesses alive.

The money. Everyone assumes that was the killers money. But keep in mind that Billy was on SSI, the boys were not working and neither was Angie. They needed money. Do not forget that Billy and Angie have been proved to be thieves. Now cast back to that MJ Kenny grew and sold. So they figured Kenny had a few bucks on him or somewhere in the trailer. So they rifled his pockets and drawers. I figure the dropped money was because they were in a hurry. It was getting on toward daylight where chances of them being seen was higher, Kenny's friend he rode to work with could stop by any minute as far as the killers knew, or Brownie was raising Cain barking and would maybe wake up the neighbors because according to Kendra Brownie was kept in the house at night so her being outside barking would have been out of the ordinary for neighbors. Plus there was a chance Donald could have showed up to work on cars. So they had to get out of there fast, take all Kenny's cameras and dropped some money on the bed when rifling his pockets or drawers. We only have Donald's rattled testimony it was a thousand dollars. As scared as he was it could have been 20 one dollar bills.

Just my theory, no links other than what fits in my mind.

 

[Fight4justice]

Shoot I dug a few of those rabbit holes myself. I just about ended up with enough rabbit fur for a coat.

If some of the newcomers on here would go back and reread the entire 55 threads, especially the first ones before the arrests they would see that we left no stone unturned. Back then everyone was a suspect for us on here until we ruled them out. I even cast some cross eyed looks over at Betty and Dudley and RSD a time or two. LOL

One by one, through tens of thousands of posts and arguments we did rule them out. All except for Jake and co.

JMO

It’s been a long road of misery and sorrow!! And you are right, we left no stone unturned! The first couple of years I just followed (stalked) the forum and held on to everything that was posted! And the research, hours upon hours, of research! We all deserve a front row seat at one if not all of the trials. Much respect to everyone! Let’s finish this!

 

[Puzzles8]

I agree with you all that Billy's 7th grade education defense doesn't mean much. All it technically means is that Billy did not receive any formal education after 7th grade. The reason for that is unknown.

I think the eldest W son is about 10 years older than Billy. Billy would have been about 13 years old at the end of 7th grade. It would make sense that about the time the eldest W son left home to start his own life and business is when Billy dropped out of formal education to assist on the FWF farm.

JMO, MOO, etc.

 

[Dudly]

It sounds like your dad was a real entrepreneur. My dad also quit school young. He was 17. He ended up doing well for himself, too. It was hard work. A good education can be a big advantage in today's world, but I think there is something to be said about the difference of being schooled vs being educated.

Some are just somehow gifted to do certain things well. I worked with a guy that could machine all the parts and build a prototype machine but spelled at about 4th grade level. I often wondered how many places would turn him down for general labor and he was working in the model shop for the Engineering Department. So, a 7th grade education can’t be considered something real bad in some cases.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I would love to see what the FBI Profiler Report said about the Rhodens/Gilley murders, I really think that if it’s proven in court of law that these Wagners are the one and only murders like Mike DeWine quoted in his news report, it want be long after sentencing That there will be other murder investigation to come fourth, because if this was the first time the Accused ever killed someone then they handled like a pro, Just Not Right, IMO

 

[Cool Cats]

I am feeling better thank you. Still getting tired but it is getting better. Have another appointment with the heart doctor this week.


First let's think about why Kenny was killed. As a great uncle he didn't have a chance of getting custody of SW. I don't think he was any closer to Hannah than any of her other uncles, in fact from April's statement it sounded like James was closer to Hannah than any other uncle. So that means there was another factor in play in his death.

Several things were brought up. That he took a shower at Chris's every morning before work and therefore may have interrupted the killers before they finished all their work. But I think that was unlikely since I think Chris was killed much earlier, between 11:00 PM and midnight. So by the time Kenny came at 5:00 am to take a shower they would have been finished with everyone and home. BJM arrived around 7:00 am. Also according to Donald, Kenny wasn't going to work the next morning so didn't need to stop by for a shower.

Donald was going to stay the night and work on cars with him the next morning. Gary may have made the same plan. Kenny raised and sold MJ. Maybe Donald and Gary planned to stay the night and do a little testing of the product. Or Gary met up with some friends and planned to stay the night there. But for whatever reason Chris was killed earlier than Gary or anyone else Re: autopsy.

If Gary changed his mind about staying the night and asked Kenny to take him back to Chris's or his plan to stay with friends didn't work out he would have called Chris to come get him. But Chris may have already been fighting for his life and the killers were searching the house for money and/or drugs and taking down cameras when the call came in and chris couldn't answer. So Gary calls Kenny for a ride. Kenny takes him to Chris's and lets him out but doesn't go in. Gary walks in and gives the killers a surprise. Keep in mind Gary was killed with two different caliber guns. They both fired because they were surprised. That sounds like the knee jerk kind of reaction if killers are surprised by the door opening when they are in the middle of removing evidence from a murder scene. One was stuck up to his temple as if the killers saw the headlights pull up and hid behind the front door waiting for whoever it was to walk in.

On the other hand we have all agreed the killers parked on the road somewhere close. Kenny knew cars, he worked on them all the time and he would have noticed that vehicle parked close to his brothers house and noted it. If the murders had not happened it would have been a shrug off for him. But once the news of the murders broke the next morning he would have been at the police station ASAP giving them a complete description of the vehicle he saw parked near his brothers house. And whoever was in that vehicle waiting would have seen Kenny and recognized his vehicle. So he had to die too. You don't leave witnesses alive.

The money. Everyone assumes that was the killers money. But keep in mind that Billy was on SSI, the boys were not working and neither was Angie. They needed money. Do not forget that Billy and Angie have been proved to be thieves. Now cast back to that MJ Kenny grew and sold. So they figured Kenny had a few bucks on him or somewhere in the trailer. So they rifled his pockets and drawers. I figure the dropped money was because they were in a hurry. It was getting on toward daylight where chances of them being seen was higher, Kenny's friend he rode to work with could stop by any minute as far as the killers knew, or Brownie was raising Cain barking and would maybe wake up the neighbors because according to Kendra Brownie was kept in the house at night so her being outside barking would have been out of the ordinary for neighbors. Plus there was a chance Donald could have showed up to work on cars. So they had to get out of there fast, take all Kenny's cameras and dropped some money on the bed when rifling his pockets or drawers. We only have Donald's rattled testimony it was a thousand dollars. As scared as he was it could have been 20 one dollar bills.

Just my theory, no links other than what fits in my mind.

I can't think of a theory for why Gary and Kenny were targeted or how it came about that Chris was killed maybe hours before the others so it was interesting reading your theory thankx....

I thought it was never known if Brownie was in or out of the camper that night. This is the first time I've heard he was kept inside at night.

Gary was shot with larger caliber bullets but I don't remember
2 different caliber guns. I assume this is something his dad said.

I'm re-thinking the money.

I agree that the killers did not bring their own money to Kenny's. Too risky that the bills would have evidence on them like prints, fibers, particles, trace evidence etc.. Forensics would have had an absolute field day with that.

I think they might have gotten the $ from Kenny's Wallet, which was probably sitting out in the open. Those psychotic psychos threw that $ on Kenny - it's very satisfying seeing the cuffs thrown on them. Chances of bond? Below Zero

 

[Yellowbeak]

Always questioned why he would be eligible for ssi when his mom is a millionaire. Off topic, my apologies.

Working the system. It’s amazing how people can get away with it. Yet, many people who need it cannot get approved. His Mommy probably hired good lawyers to get his claim approved.

 

[iridized]

Working the system. It’s amazing how people can get away with it. Yet, many people who need it cannot get approved. His Mommy probably hired good lawyers to get his claim approved.

9% of Pike County residents were collecting SSI in 2018. Geographic Concentration of Poor Health Explains Most of “Disability Belt”

 

[Dudly]

I would love to see what the FBI Profiler Report said about the Rhodens/Gilley murders, I really think that if it’s proven in court of law that these Wagners are the one and only murders like Mike DeWine quoted in his news report, it want be long after sentencing That there will be other murder investigation to come fourth, because if this was the first time the Accused ever killed someone then they handled like a pro, Just Not Right, IMO

They left a trail of evidence long enough to write books, three Terabytes worth.. That wasn't real professional...

 

[Dudly]

Working the system. It’s amazing how people can get away with it. Yet, many people who need it cannot get approved. His Mommy probably hired good lawyers to get his claim approved.

I know of a case where someone had many medical problems including seizures. It took 18 months to get Disability Social Security. I know someone that got SSI as soon as they filed because they say they can't be in a work environment with a lot of people around them. This same person was making over $17/hr about 20 years ago and quit because they didn't like the foreman telling them what to do. Good thing SSI don't tell them what to do.
So, SSI can be fairly easy to qualify for, apparently, if a person wants to apply for it.

 

[molly1255]

Working the system. It’s amazing how people can get away with it. Yet, many people who need it cannot get approved. His Mommy probably hired good lawyers to get his claim approved.

Agree. Not even sure that an attorney would be required to get this approved. There's apparently a disability of some sort. Did not have enough work credits to apply for SSDI, apparently. Geographic location and lack of available jobs given education and work experience were also likely taken into consideration. I know they do that with SSDI. I think the only thing that would then need to be done is to make sure there was no property, vehicles or money in the bank in his name.

I was rather awe-stricken by the volume of personal possessions, toys, etc. that were either sold or put into trailers for storage before the move to Alaska. Apparently enough money to build a pretty nice barn before they decided to move, too.

Is that how poor people live?