OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #56

[Cool Cats]

I could see that. But I'm still left wondering how they got close enough to 6 of the 8 to leave a muzzle burn? I was trying to think of ways the W's may have incapacitated them. The only thing I could come up with that might not show up on a standard tox screen is ketamine, a horse tranquilizer. However, it's got enough of a street drug devotion, that it may be standard also. And then, how would they dose them? If the new Mom was nursing, that would be a huge problem. Many potential problems with that.

I considered: carbon monoxide (but leaves visible signs to the body, would be much more harmful to the children...I would think, and would show up on a tox screen; stun gun (would leave tell-tale marks), and a couple other things that would leave evident signs or show up in a tox report.

Anybody have ideas? (Other than what I can't bear to think about, threat to the young babies and/or dogs.) I can't even kind of go there.

You may have something here. I think they incapacitated them by shooting them multiple times. This could be why they were shot multiple times. Note how most were shot in the face. Shooting them in the face totally incapacitates them so the killers can then step closer and put the gun against them, thus leaving the muzzle stain. So I simply think the first gunshots incapacitated them. So far I haven't heard of a victim sustaining multiple muzzle stains and I would be surprised if this is the case but just my opinion.

It's very clear that they incapacitated Chris Sr. by shooting him in the torso and extremities. Also 4 were in bed, all they had to do was walk up to the bed, so no need to do anything but start shooting.

 

[Betty P]

I could see that. But I'm still left wondering how they got close enough to 6 of the 8 to leave a muzzle burn? I was trying to think of ways the W's may have incapacitated them. The only thing I could come up with that might not show up on a standard tox screen is ketamine, a horse tranquilizer. However, it's got enough of a street drug devotion, that it may be standard also. And then, how would they dose them? If the new Mom was nursing, that would be a huge problem. Many potential problems with that.

I considered: carbon monoxide (but leaves visible signs to the body, would be much more harmful to the children...I would think, and would show up on a tox screen; stun gun (would leave tell-tale marks), and a couple other things that would leave evident signs or show up in a tox report.

Anybody have ideas? (Other than what I can't bear to think about, threat to the young babies and/or dogs.) I can't even kind of go there.

I don't know. That would show up in tox reports if that happened and those haven't been made public yet.

As Raisinisback theorized recently, Gary coming home to CR1's may have surprised them. They could hide by the front door and shoot him as he walked in.

Since they have FARO scans listed in the discovery evidence, it's likely LE will have diagrams and possibly videos that recreate the murders.

 

[Betty P]

You may have something here. I think they incapacitated them by shooting them multiple times. This could be why they were shot multiple times. Note how most were shot in the face. Shooting them in the face totally incapacitates them so the killers can then step closer and put the gun against them, thus leaving the muzzle stain. So I simply think the first gunshots incapacitated them. So far I haven't heard of a victim sustaining multiple muzzle stains and I would be surprised if this is the case but just my opinion.

It's very clear that they incapacitated Chris Sr. by shooting him in the torso and extremities. Also 4 were in bed, all they had to do was walk up to the bed, so no need to do anything but start shooting.

I think Frankie had one contact wound and one that was very close. In their situation, it seems like they were able to sneak into Frankie's home quietly enough that they were surprised while still asleep. The killers had to be concerned most about Chris Sr and Frankie - the two most likely to grab a weapon and put up a strong fight.

That said, how they got into Frankie's without waking them is one question I'd like to see answered. RSD1200 has pointed out previously that the Wagner men were experienced hunters, so knew how to stalk prey quietly. Sadly, they probably practiced those skills before the murders.

 

[Berrybell]

According to an article(s) by a reporter(s) who was allowed to read the autopsy reports, all gun barrels were touching the victims or almost touching the victims.

Trying to shoot through a roof is just not going to work in any way and would be too loud, other people lived on that road.

No forced entries to any of the crime scenes, this was said a long time ago and also I remember seeing a police report for at least one property saying no forced entry. I don't have the links so just take it as opinion but I'm sure this was out in the MSM 4 years ago.

If there was a forced entry somewhere then LE is keeping it under wraps and it would likely come up at trial.

I have always thought Kenny was shot first and they needed keys, phone or something from him to gain access the other Rhoden family members. I think AW knocked on his door and yelled that SW was hurt/sick and without thinking he opened the door to only be met by a gun in his face, Kenny backed up and set on his bed then AW shot him point blank in the eye. JMO.
I also think AW or JWDana. That shot under the chin to me says they looked Dana in the eye and wanted her to look them in the eye and be the last person she saw. This was pure hated. All JMO.

 

[Niner]

snipped....
08/03/2020 - WAGNER, III, GEORGE WASHINGTON

ENTRY GRANTING DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO CONTINUE BOND MOTION HEARING AND STATUS CONFERENCE. SUCH HEARING WILL BE RESCHEDULED ON A DATE TO BE DETERMINED UPON THE COMPLETION OF DISCOVERY.

So that means the 8/6/20 hearing is cancelled? His next hearing after that is evidentiary hearing on 9/8 per my notes.

 

[Cool Cats]

So that means the 8/6/20 hearing is cancelled? His next hearing after that is evidentiary hearing on 9/8 per my notes.

Yes it's cancelled and appears that the defense is hunting for more discovery to make Billy's bond motion stronger, then they'll reschedule. I think the defense cancelled his bond hearing because they don't feel their arguments are strong enough. What are they fishing for?

What evidence do they think they don't have? Remember his bond motion? All those reasons he's innocent etc.... Yet here they go and cancelled it. Not boding well for Billy in my opinion.

 

[Cool Cats]

I think Frankie had one contact wound and one that was very close. In their situation, it seems like they were able to sneak into Frankie's home quietly enough that they were surprised while still asleep. The killers had to be concerned most about Chris Sr and Frankie - the two most likely to grab a weapon and put up a strong fight.

That said, how they got into Frankie's without waking them is one question I'd like to see answered. RSD1200 has pointed out previously that the Wagner men were experienced hunters, so knew how to stalk prey quietly. Sadly, they probably practiced those skills before the murders.

I believe Jake lived in that trailer on and off with Hanna and that means he had a key. Could be that simple, quietly opening the door with a key.

And BJM knew where Chris Sr's key was and Jake also knew (I bet) because he lived on and off next door. Meaning he could have copied Chris's key.

All Jake had to do was borrow Hanna's car then copy the house key that was on the key chain with the car keys. To me this is likely.

2 Cents

 

[Mind your biscuits]

I'm a mostly lurker liker on this thread.
I couldn't sleep last night and got to thinking about why the toddler had to open the door? The killer's must have turned the lock behind them or used a key. Where the doors locked on the other homes? Moo.

 

[Cool Cats]

I'm a mostly lurker liker on this thread.
I couldn't sleep last night and got to thinking about why the toddler had to open the door? The killer's must have turned the lock behind them or used a key. Where the doors locked on the other homes? Moo.

Appears the killers were able to lock Frankie's and Chris's doors but I have never heard anything about Dana's and Kenny's doors being found locked.

From the sound of it, through all the news and interviews it seems to me that those 2 residences were left unlocked for some reason.

Donald Stone said: 'Kenneth would normally padlock the camper where he lived from the outside when he left.

'When I didn't hear from him I went to the camper and it was unlocked and his truck was outside and I felt there must have been something wrong.

Ohio family massacre victim had $1k in cash strewn at his feet and was shot in the head | Daily Mail Online

 

[BeckyF]

Rita believed what Angie told her to believe. Angie got her to sit on house arrest for 1 year and lie that she signed forged documents that Angie actually signed.

Then, Rita is out on bail and court ordered not to have contact with Angie and the others. In my opinion Angie knows Rita's bond could be revoked if she doesn't abide by all the rules of her release.

So what does Angie do? Calls her mom over a 6 month period of time. Angie is not jeopardizing her freedom because she's already locked up, but Rita gets a Motion to Revoke Bond filed against her and almost ends up going to jail along with a stern warning from the judge.

This is extremely controlling behavior on Angie's part and quite frankly I do not know anyone who would sit on house arrest for a year and take a chance on being sent to jail, all because their daughter told them to. Imagine how hard it was for Rita waiting for her Bond Revocation Hearing, not knowing if she would leave court in handcuffs.

Prosecution asks for Rita Newcomb's bond to be revoked

July 25th 2019

“The court considers violation of a bail order as a very serious matter,” Deering said. “If that call is from someone she’s been ordered not to have contact with, I would expect her to tell that person that she’s not permitted to have contact and hang up the phone.”

“No contact means no contact of any kind, regardless of what the discussion may be. If it’s determined they were discussing cases, then it’s much more egregious,” Deering said.

Judge expands court order for Pike Co. grandmother to have no contact with daughter

August 28, 2019

“It’s a serious thing to violate court orders and you could go to jail,” Deering said. "There’s been a serious violation of this court order, so I’m going to expand the order. No phone calls can be taken from Angela Wagner and no calls are to be taken by her from anyone else in that house.

If the court finds calls are being received or made to Wagner or if people while at that house are receiving or making calls to her then one of two things will happen; you’ll go to jail or you can’t live in that home anymore."

Very good explanation. Thank you. I kinda feel sorry for Rita now.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

But surely RN was aware of their previous criminal activities. Maybe a case of denial where she didn’t want to believe her daughter was a felon.

Had Mama Fred not pulled strings (my assumption only) on the previous thefts, RN's daughter and son-in-law would have been convicted felons years ago. MOO

 

[GoBuckeyes]

You may have something here. I think they incapacitated them by shooting them multiple times. This could be why they were shot multiple times. Note how most were shot in the face. Shooting them in the face totally incapacitates them so the killers can then step closer and put the gun against them, thus leaving the muzzle stain. So I simply think the first gunshots incapacitated them. So far I haven't heard of a victim sustaining multiple muzzle stains and I would be surprised if this is the case but just my opinion.

It's very clear that they incapacitated Chris Sr. by shooting him in the torso and extremities. Also 4 were in bed, all they had to do was walk up to the bed, so no need to do anything but start shooting.

You might be right. Maybe the muzzle burns were inflicted after the first shot. TBH, I've never heard of multiple muzzle burns in any case either. But that might be because I can't recall a case where multiple shots were inflicted with the muzzle directly against the head/skin. This case is horrific across the board.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Even if the Rhodens were awakened by the noise, if you wake up to an armed person saying don’t move, you probably won’t move. I have always thought this was more of a “revenge” murder. I think the Ws wanted the Rs to know who was killing them. Like a “see what happens when you cross us” situation. They may have threatened to kill the kids if they moved. At that point they could easily get close enough, or, maybe already close enough, to leave the muzzle burns on skin. All this is just an opinion on what may have happened.

I could definitely see them taking out one parent that way. But unless they shot simultaneously, I'd think the other parent, having realized their fate, would try to fight back, would stir, or scream. It sounds as if they were shot right where they slept without any of the younger children waking.

I keep thinking about Frankie's little boy and the description he gave of picking up his Dad's hand and it falling (going limp) again.

Still, coming up on 2 years post-arrest, I can't begin to wrap my mind around the degree of hatred. Does anyone think that there are other victims of theirs out there, people they've killed or had killed? TIA

 

[Cool Cats]

Had Mama Fred not pulled strings (my assumption only) on the previous thefts, RN's daughter and son-in-law would have been convicted felons years ago. MOO

Billy had

• GERLACH, FRANKLIN as his attorney back then the same one representing Rita.

Gerlach was able to get Billy off with just misdemeanors and probation and get one charged dropped and the jail sentence suspended. What Fred did for them is get them the best legal counsel. For herself and got the best attorney she could find, that's the "trick."

Count One - Receiving Stolen Property, 2913.51(A), M-1; Count three - Receiving Stolen Property, 2913.51(A), M-1; Count Two - Dismissed.

It is therefore ORDERED that the Defendant serve 180 days in the Pike county Jail on each count, with 180 suspended. The Defendant shall be placed on probation for a period of 3 years with the Adult Parole Authority. Defendant is also ORDERED to pay a fine in the amount of $500.00 and to pay the costs of this action.

https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org/e...JVQRQYFBsjQcgRcS65rMvN9qFB8Qe3wEbedxDOAHJfTBg

 

[Nanasteele]

One of the 4 Wagners will talk before trial, nobody wants to be in the position of 12 people decisions if they will be on death row, JMO The odds is not in the Wagners favor!

I say George will crack and rat the others out if he thinks he can still see his son while in jail. I wonder if he has seen him all this time and if Jake has seen Sophia?

 

[Nanasteele]

You may have something here. I think they incapacitated them by shooting them multiple times. This could be why they were shot multiple times. Note how most were shot in the face. Shooting them in the face totally incapacitates them so the killers can then step closer and put the gun against them, thus leaving the muzzle stain. So I simply think the first gunshots incapacitated them. So far I haven't heard of a victim sustaining multiple muzzle stains and I would be surprised if this is the case but just my opinion.

It's very clear that they incapacitated Chris Sr. by shooting him in the torso and extremities. Also 4 were in bed, all they had to do was walk up to the bed, so no need to do anything but start shooting.

I bet Chris gave them a fight! I just wonder if he had any DNA on him. He had to be awake and know someone was out there if shot in the front of his arm.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

CC
I need you to help me find out in the beginning of the murders I read some news report that said part of a suppresser was found a in one of the mobile homes, evidently omen of the suppresser came apart, what made me think of this is the ATF report said parts of a suppresser was found in a well, JMO
Documents filed in the murder cases of two members of the Wagner family are starting to paint a picture of the largest homicide investigation in Ohio history.

Records filed by prosecutors in the case of George "Billy" Wagner III indicate investigators on Oct. 31 searched the Peebles address of a farm the Wagner family sold before moving to Alaska and recovered an item from a well on the property.

The evidence listing says there were 21 photos from the search of the well, another seven photos of the recovered item and also an 8-page Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives report made on Nov. 7, 2018. Also listed from that search is "Information from Maglite."

Mon., May 15, 2017: The property in the 200 block of Peterson Road in Adams County Monday, which was the site of an intensive search Friday and Saturday by the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigations, tied to the Rhoden massacre. The property was recently sold by Jake Wagner, the former boyfriend of Hanna Rhoden, one of the victims found killed on April 22, 2016. Wagner is the father of Sophia Wagner, whom he gained full custody of after Hanna was killed.
THE ENQUIRER/CARRIE COCHRAN
George "Billy" Wagner, his wife and two sons were all arrested less than a week later, on Nov. 13. In announcing the arrests, former Ohio Attorney General and now-Governor Mike DeWine said a particular piece of evidence, a firearm suppressor according to reports at the time, paired with all the other evidence led to the arrests.

The documents indicate investigators searched the property twice in 2017 in addition to the well search in 2018. In the first two searches, investigators filed 530 photos, a separate photo of a "burnt" VCR and an 11-page evidence inventory.


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Prosecutors say Billy Wagner, his wife Angela Wagner and two sons George Wagner IV, and Edward "Jake" Wagner methodically planned then killed members of the Rhoden family on April 22, 2016.

Central to the dispute between the two families, prosecutors say, was a custody battle for the daughter of Jake Wagner and Hanna Rhoden - Sophia Wagner.

Included in the evidence list in Billy Wagner's case is an entry named "Custody Messages (1 excel sheet with 519 entries)."

The Wagner family was the subject of three searches on farms in Pike and Adams counties in May 2017 tied to the Rhoden family massacre. The family photo was taken during a recent trip to Alaska. Pictured from left to right are: Bulvine; Angela Wagner, her son, George, her husband, George "Billy", her son, Edward "Jake," and his daughter, Sophia, 3. Jake Wagner is the former longtime boyfriend of Hanna Rhoden, who was killed in the April 22, 2016 killings in Pike County. The two are the parents of Sophia.
PROVIDED
Also in the list of evidence being handed to defense attorneys for Billy Wagner are cell tower records from his phone.

The document shows records for March 2016 and April 2016. Listed under those records is "Big Bear Lake (1 excel sheet)."

Previous Enquirer reporting indicatesChristopher Rhoden Sr., 40, and Christopher Rhoden Jr., 16, worked at the resort doing odd jobs or construction up until a week before they were found dead, killed "execution style" in their Pike County homes.

Also killed were Hannah Gilley, 20, Clarence "Frankie" Rhoden, 20, Dana Rhoden, 37, Gary Rhoden, 38, Hanna Rhoden, 19, and Kenneth Rhoden, 44.

More: Rhoden family massacre: Fredericka Wagner argues for access to church, workplace

In addition to shared custody of Sophia, surviving family members have said the two families shared business interests.

Other evidence listed in Billy Wagner's case includes 1,475 crime scene photos from the four scenes of the killings, several 911 calls, autopsy reports, audio and video interviews with the Wagners and four photos from Walmart and a Walmart receipt.

The evidence listed in Jake Wagner's case mirrors much of his father's with audio and video interviews, photos, 911 calls and autopsy reports. Jake Wagner was in court Thursday for a pretrial hearing.

Jake Wagner's grandmothers, Fredericka Wagner and Rita Newcomb, are facing charges they lied to the grand jury, and Newcomb is alleged to have forged custody documents. Filings in those cases alleged Fredericka Wagner lied about her son's bullet proof vest while Newcomb is alleged to have lied about the custody documents.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I think she said it was a confidential reliable source. For some reason they did not want to divulge if it was a person or a listening device of some kind. It could have been a person but I don’t think, in my opinion, that we know what the source was at this time.

She may have said confidential reliable source, I said "informant" because that's what wording the linked article used. Regardless, I would like to know who those persons were the Wagner's spoke of.


Edit to add:

You are correct Dudley. Canepa said confidential reliable source

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I’m sure this has been discussed but what is the general consensus regarding whether RN and/ or FW knew about the murder plans before they happened? I think RN did but I’m not so sure about FW.

I am.

 

[Loomis124]

I am.

So am I.