OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #56

[Cool Cats]

Just an outside perspective. Way back I commented the case looked weak against the grandmother Fredrica and I thought charges wouldn’t stick. Now it looks like the whole case is coming apart. Hopefully there will be compelling evidence brought at trial. I don’t want to be a naysayer but it isn’t looking good from lots of angles. I hope I am wrong. Being fr9m another state with no ties, I think I would be a reasonable objective person. It just seems the lawyers on the defense side are planting lots of doubt before the trial even starts. Thoughts?

I don't see any doubt being planted, just very very general statements that would be expected. Here is what I can find.

Don't anyone get upset please, I am not pro-Wagner.
There are 10 X's more things out in the media that point to guilt, I have written pages on it.

1.) Billy only has a 7th grade education
2.) The Rhodens and Wagners were close friends, Billy being Chris's best friend.
3.) For a fair trial Billy and Angela's trials might be moved out of Pike Co.
4.) There are other suspects.
5.) No discovery evidence ties Billy to the crimes.
6.) A lead investigator who resigned left his own DNA at the crime scene.
7.) Wagner's cooperated during the investigation.
8.) The footprint evidence is pseudoscience and the expert should not be allowed to testify.
9.) The ballistic evidence is pseudoscience and should not be used.
10.) The lead Sheriff on the case has been indicted but not on anything related to the Wagners or Rhodens.
11.) Not having all the discovery evidence turned over.
12.) Lot was broken into where Rhoden trailers were stored.
13.) Charges were dismissed on Fred.
14.) Rita took a plea.
15.) No eyewitnesses to the crimes.


This is all very weak stuff with no merit in my opinion. I doubt this will plant any doubt whatsoever. In fact it looks like they are grasping at straws.

https://www.scribd.com/document/465989463/Billy-Wagner-bond-request#from_embed

Citing 'weak' case, Billy Wagner asks court for reasonable bond

AG withdraws from Rhoden case, new details about Wagner-Rhoden relationship revealed

Just filed court documents reveal details about evidence in Rhoden case

Pike County murders: Mother’s attorney asks court for new venue, to drop death penalty

Three Rhoden suspects appear in Pike Co. court - Times Gazette
("Collins promised that at the appropriate time he will make a motion for a change of venue, moving his client’s (Billy) trial out of Pike County.")

 

[NotHammerToed]

Right. Jake was lying when he told reporters he thought there was a 50% chance she was his. He knew she was not his and had she been, I do not believe he would have done what he did. Remember he is nothing but a liar like his mom who actually went on Facebook groups to try to make her family look good. It didn't work and she was basically chased off. She could not change the narrative like she could in her personal life.

2 Cents Only.....

I remember back around the time DeWine pointed the laser at the Wagners. They were cocky and arrogant in their preconceived notions. As if everybody were below them and therefor had no choice but to take their word as 100% truth. The vacation that turned into a move, lie. JW losing his cellphone that conveniently contained the password to his old Facebook account. Lie. (Ironically after he made these claims, the Facebook account he was referring to ends up deleting a few pictures after the fact.)... you know I reported this to BCI after it happened, then went onto a certain website and let everyone know. Ironically my phone got hacked from a number based in Ohio. Also funny all the W’s turned their Facebook accounts private after that. Sorry I’m rambling at this point. Moo

 

[Cool Cats]

Double

 

[Cool Cats]

I remember back around the time DeWine pointed the laser at the Wagners. They were cocky and arrogant in their preconceived notions. As if everybody were below them and therefor had no choice but to take their word as 100% truth. The vacation that turned into a move, lie. JW losing his cellphone that conveniently contained the password to his old Facebook account. Lie. (Ironically after he made these claims, the Facebook account he was referring to ends up deleting a few pictures after the fact.)... you know I reported this to BCI after it happened, then went onto a certain website and let everyone know. Ironically my phone got hacked from a number based in Ohio. Also funny all the W’s turned their Facebook accounts private after that. Sorry I’m rambling at this point. Moo

Interesting that you got involved. Thanks for posting. Yup, could be Wagner's hacked your phone, wow.

 

[Betty P]

Just an outside perspective. Way back I commented the case looked weak against the grandmother Fredrica and I thought charges wouldn’t stick. Now it looks like the whole case is coming apart. Hopefully there will be compelling evidence brought at trial. I don’t want to be a naysayer but it isn’t looking good from lots of angles. I hope I am wrong. Being fr9m another state with no ties, I think I would be a reasonable objective person. It just seems the lawyers on the defense side are planting lots of doubt before the trial even starts. Thoughts?

Frankly, given some recent revelations about the evidence at hand, the case against the 4 Wags looks stronger than ever. Witnesses who heard Jake say he was going to kill Hanna, lots of ballistic and other evidence, DNA evidence, thousands of hours of phone conversations, texts, emails, hacking of victim's social media and messaging accounts, evidence of them using digital hacking to try to frame others, Billy becoming pathologically angry, controlling and possibly violent in the months and years leading up to the murders, etc, etc.

With everything piling up, it seems like the 4 Wagners attorneys may not even be able to save them from the DP. There's so much evidence of planning and premeditation that went into these murders.

The only way out for some of them is to make a plea deal and I think that's in the future.

 

[Cool Cats]

Frankly, given some recent revelations about the evidence at hand, the case against the 4 Wags looks stronger than ever. Witnesses who heard Jake say he was going to kill Hanna, lots of ballistic and other evidence, DNA evidence, thousands of hours of phone conversations, texts, emails, hacking of victim's social media and messaging accounts, evidence of them using digital hacking to try to frame others, Billy becoming pathologically angry, controlling and possibly violent in the months and years leading up to the murders, etc, etc.

With everything piling up, it seems like the 4 Wagners attorneys may not even be able to save them from the DP. There's so much evidence of planning and premeditation that went into these murders.

The only way out for some of them is to make a plea deal and I think that's in the future.

What I notice is how they thought that if they covered their tracks at the crime scenes and staged the crime scenes and no one saw them near the crime scenes, that they would be home free.

Like the true amateurs they are - having gotten all their information off Google (in my opinion) - they were too ignorant to realize how much murder investigations rely on more than the actual crime scenes. How these investigations will focus intensely on events that LED UP to the murders. The motives, the means, the opportunities, the shopping and spying and stalking....Ect..

What they did in the months before.

They focused mostly on hiding themselves from the crime scenes then hiding all the evidence afterwards. Cameras, clothes, guns, all this stuff they burned and buried etc...But they left all this evidence of what they did from January 2016 to April 2016.

Opinion Only

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I remember back around the time DeWine pointed the laser at the Wagners. They were cocky and arrogant in their preconceived notions. As if everybody were below them and therefor had no choice but to take their word as 100% truth. The vacation that turned into a move, lie. JW losing his cellphone that conveniently contained the password to his old Facebook account. Lie. (Ironically after he made these claims, the Facebook account he was referring to ends up deleting a few pictures after the fact.)... you know I reported this to BCI after it happened, then went onto a certain website and let everyone know. Ironically my phone got hacked from a number based in Ohio. Also funny all the W’s turned their Facebook accounts private after that. Sorry I’m rambling at this point. Moo

Interesting. So how did you follow up and find out a hacker from a number in Ohio hacked your phone? I assume they were arrested?

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Interesting that you got involved. Thanks for posting. Yup, could be Wagner's hacked your phone, wow.

Question. How would they have known a random persons number to hack?

 

[NotHammerToed]

Interesting. So how did you follow up and find out a hacker from a number in Ohio hacked your phone? I assume they were arrested?

Well I’m not certain the number from Ohio is the one who hacked into my phone. I would get calls and texts from automated machines originating from a town in Ohio.

 

[Cool Cats]

Question. How would they have known a random persons number to hack?

I wasn't thinking it through. It really wouldn't make sense your right.

It does seem odd though that instead of closing up shop they continued to
electronically spy on people, according to the discovery evidence it went on until May 2017. They should have known THEY were under surveillance.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/b5970061-96a9-4921-b102-09ffced54757-jpeg.178064/

Chris Graves letter dated March 6th, 2019
telling her that her communication with the Wagners had been intercepted starting June 9th, 2017 for 30 days then another 30 day extension was granted on July 7th, 2017.

So all those times in Alaska that Chris Graves was communicating with the Wagner's over e-mail/phones etc..BCI was monitoring it. This was from
June 9th until August 9th 2017.

 

[Dudly]

Frankly, given some recent revelations about the evidence at hand, the case against the 4 Wags looks stronger than ever. Witnesses who heard Jake say he was going to kill Hanna, lots of ballistic and other evidence, DNA evidence, thousands of hours of phone conversations, texts, emails, hacking of victim's social media and messaging accounts, evidence of them using digital hacking to try to frame others, Billy becoming pathologically angry, controlling and possibly violent in the months and years leading up to the murders, etc, etc.

With everything piling up, it seems like the 4 Wagners attorneys may not even be able to save them from the DP. There's so much evidence of planning and premeditation that went into these murders.

The only way out for some of them is to make a plea deal and I think that's in the future.

At the hearing for bond, AC said they had more evidence of their guilt than they had when the Grand Jury voted to indict them. The Defense Attorneys’ jobs are to cast doubt and I personally have not seen much casting of doubt. As I understand it, at one of the last hearings, it was said that the Defense has not turned over their discovery yet.
Remember it is the Defense that keeps holding things up. They couldn’t access the portable hard drives. They thought some files were missing because one portable hard drive was larger but had the same info on it. They requested help to sift through and organize all the evidence. They had a meeting with the Prosecution to tell them what recorded evidence was planned to be used against them. They postponed the bond reduction hearing.
After all this people still want to blame the Prosecution for holding up the start of the trials. Since most of this is general knowledge, there are no links, just my opinions...

 

[Cool Cats]

At the hearing for bond, AC said they had more evidence of their guilt than they had when the Grand Jury voted to indict them. The Defense Attorneys’ jobs are to cast doubt and I personally have not seen much casting of doubt. As I understand it, at one of the last hearings, it was said that the Defense has not turned over their discovery yet.
Remember it is the Defense that keeps holding things up. They couldn’t access the portable hard drives. They thought some files were missing because one portable hard drive was larger but had the same info on it. They requested help to sift through and organize all the evidence. They had a meeting with the Prosecution to tell them what recorded evidence was planned to be used against them. They postponed the bond reduction hearing.
After all this people still want to blame the Prosecution for holding up the start of the trials. Since most of this is general knowledge, there are no links, just my opinions...

Thanks for listing this all out. Really makes the point.

 

[sunshineray]

Frankly, given some recent revelations about the evidence at hand, the case against the 4 Wags looks stronger than ever. Witnesses who heard Jake say he was going to kill Hanna, lots of ballistic and other evidence, DNA evidence, thousands of hours of phone conversations, texts, emails, hacking of victim's social media and messaging accounts, evidence of them using digital hacking to try to frame others, Billy becoming pathologically angry, controlling and possibly violent in the months and years leading up to the murders, etc, etc.

With everything piling up, it seems like the 4 Wagners attorneys may not even be able to save them from the DP. There's so much evidence of planning and premeditation that went into these murders.

The only way out for some of them is to make a plea deal and I think that's in the future.

Yeah instead of the prosecution case becoming weaker it seems likely RN will have a lot to tell as well as the confidential informant. All the evidence against them hasn't even been made public yet. If anything I'm more hopeful for one of the four copping a plea. AJMO

Edit: Forgot to mention CG. Can't wait to hear what she testifies about.

 

[Betty P]

I don't see any doubt being planted, just very very general statements that would be expected. Here is what I can find.

Don't anyone get upset please, I am not pro-Wagner.
There are 10 X's more things out in the media that point to guilt, I have written pages on it.

1.) Billy only has a 7th grade education
2.) The Rhodens and Wagners were close friends, Billy being Chris's best friend.
3.) For a fair trial Billy and Angela's trials might be moved out of Pike Co.
4.) There are other suspects.
5.) No discovery evidence ties Billy to the crimes.
6.) A lead investigator who resigned left his own DNA at the crime scene.
7.) Wagner's cooperated during the investigation.
8.) The footprint evidence is pseudoscience and the expert should not be allowed to testify.
9.) The ballistic evidence is pseudoscience and should not be used.
10.) The lead Sheriff on the case has been indicted but not on anything related to the Wagners or Rhodens.
11.) Not having all the discovery evidence turned over.
12.) Lot was broken into where Rhoden trailers were stored.
13.) Charges were dismissed on Fred.
14.) Rita took a plea.
15.) No eyewitnesses to the crimes.


This is all very weak stuff with no merit in my opinion. I doubt this will plant any doubt whatsoever. In fact it looks like they are grasping at straws.

https://www.scribd.com/document/465989463/Billy-Wagner-bond-request#from_embed

Citing 'weak' case, Billy Wagner asks court for reasonable bond

AG withdraws from Rhoden case, new details about Wagner-Rhoden relationship revealed

Just filed court documents reveal details about evidence in Rhoden case

Pike County murders: Mother’s attorney asks court for new venue, to drop death penalty

Three Rhoden suspects appear in Pike Co. court - Times Gazette
("Collins promised that at the appropriate time he will make a motion for a change of venue, moving his client’s (Billy) trial out of Pike County.")[/QUOTE

It's not a weak case, its very strong. No matter what people post on social media, the prosecution is not going to reveal their case to the public until the trials begin. They don't try their cases in the news media, but sometimes desperate defense attorneys do.

 

[Betty P]

Yeah instead of the prosecution case becoming weaker it seems likely RN will have a lot to tell as well as the confidential informant. All the evidence against them hasn't even been made public yet. If anything I'm more hopeful for one of the four copping a plea. AJMO

Edit: Forgot to mention CG. Can't wait to hear what she testifies about.

JMO, there will be many other witnesses who will testify about Jake Wagner's relationship, behavior, and previous violent tendencies. Same for the other members of his family who helped plan and carry out these murders. Testimony will come from people who have known them for many years and know them well. JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Yeah instead of the prosecution case becoming weaker it seems likely RN will have a lot to tell as well as the confidential informant. All the evidence against them hasn't even been made public yet. If anything I'm more hopeful for one of the four copping a plea. AJMO

Edit: Forgot to mention CG. Can't wait to hear what she testifies about.

I wonder what was found on Flying W Farm last October when it was searched and WHO told the LE where to look???? JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

@Betty P Your quote/reply to my post:

"It's not a weak case, its very strong. No matter what people post on social media, the prosecution is not going to reveal their case to the public until the trials begin. They don't try their cases in the news media, but sometimes desperate defense attorneys do."

I said the defense is putting out weak points in the media as to why the Wagner's are not guilty. Very general "Wagners are innocent" statements as to be expected. I do not think the prosecution will put on a weak case.

In fact, the prosecution's case is strong enough for the defense to claim some of the discovery evidence is nothing but pseudoscience and should be tossed along with their experts.

Otherwise the defense will have to pay for their own experts to come all the way to the Waverly Courthouse and explain to the jury why the ballistics and shoe print evidence is pseudoscience and should be discounted.

Getting evidence tossed out is sometimes the best defense against strong evidence. After that, hiring experts.

Wagner’s attorneys have asked Judge Randy Deering to hold evidentiary hearings on some of the evidence to determine whether it is relevant and admissible. Wagner’s attorneys called the ballistic and shoe print evidence “pseudoscience.”

 

[Howcanppldosuch]

Frankly, given some recent revelations about the evidence at hand, the case against the 4 Wags looks stronger than ever. Witnesses who heard Jake say he was going to kill Hanna, lots of ballistic and other evidence, DNA evidence, thousands of hours of phone conversations, texts, emails, hacking of victim's social media and messaging accounts, evidence of them using digital hacking to try to frame others, Billy becoming pathologically angry, controlling and possibly violent in the months and years leading up to the murders, etc, etc.

With everything piling up, it seems like the 4 Wagners attorneys may not even be able to save them from the DP. There's so much evidence of planning and premeditation that went into these murders.

The only way out for some of them is to make a plea deal and I think that's in the future.

Good, I missed the evidence you cited. I didn’t keep up enough. I hope they are convicted if the done this!

 

[Betty P]

@Betty P Your quote/reply to my post:

"It's not a weak case, its very strong. No matter what people post on social media, the prosecution is not going to reveal their case to the public until the trials begin. They don't try their cases in the news media, but sometimes desperate defense attorneys do."

I said the defense is putting out weak points in the media as to why the Wagner's are not guilty. Very general "Wagners are innocent" statements as to be expected. I do not think the prosecution will put on a weak case.

In fact, the prosecution's case is strong enough for the defense to claim some of the discovery evidence is nothing but pseudoscience and should be tossed along with their experts.

Otherwise the defense will have to pay for their own experts to come all the way to the Waverly Courthouse and explain to the jury why the ballistics and shoe print evidence is pseudoscience and should be discounted.

Getting evidence tossed out is sometimes the best defense against strong evidence. After that, hiring experts.

Wagner’s attorneys have asked Judge Randy Deering to hold evidentiary hearings on some of the evidence to determine whether it is relevant and admissible. Wagner’s attorneys called the ballistic and shoe print evidence “pseudoscience.”

Oddly enough, the defense has been trying to get good evidence thrown out before the trials have begun. It's a little uncommon to try that, JMO, so it shows they are desperate. Then, there's the whole problem of them not providing any evidence for discovery to the prosecution. They haven't done so in nearly 2 years of pretrial hearings, so it seems they may not have any exculpatory evidence for their clients.

JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Angela and Jake has not ask for bond as of how the 2 George’s did, I wonder why????