OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #58

[Cool Cats]

While it's just speculation, such a scenario is impossible. DeWine has said repeatedly that there are no others who were involved in the planning and execution of the Rhoden/Gilley family murders. If there were anyone else involved, they would have been arrested and indicted.

Any John Doe's being named in civil suits may be "place holder" identities in the event there were other people who might have had some knowledge of something.

This close to the trials it would be very harmful to imply that there are other people involved in the murders and that LE and the Ohio governor are lying to cover for them (the only logical possibility). JMO

Jane and John Does are clearly listed in the indictments and the prosecution put them there for a reason. My linked law articles show that this is pretty standard procedure to circumvent the statute of limitations should a Jane or John Doe defendant turn up at a later date.

The evidence in the Wagner Cases points only to the Wagners and no one else according to the prosecution yet it is this same prosecution who deliberately put the Jane and John Does into the indictments. The prosecution is not calling themselves liars, that would tarnish the indictments creating absurdity....2 Cents....

‘John Doe’ indictment leads to conviction in 18-year-old rape case

 

[Betty P]

Jane and John Does are clearly listed in the indictments and the prosecution put them there for a reason. My linked law articles show that this is pretty standard procedure to circumvent the statute of limitations should a Jane or John Doe defendant turn up at a later date.

The evidence in the Wagner Cases points only to the Wagners and no one else according to the prosecution yet it is this same prosecution who deliberately put the Jane and John Does into the indictments. The prosecution is not calling themselves liars, that would tarnish the indictments creating absurdity....2 Cents....

‘John Doe’ indictment leads to conviction in 18-year-old rape case

Agree, these designations are "placeholders" in the event some new information comes to light. Two years down the road, it still hasn't. LE has plenty of evidence taken from the crime scenes. As DeWine said, all those who were involved in the murders have been arrested. There are no other suspects. There is no evidence anyone else was involved in the killings.

Pike County murders: DeWine lays out charges in 2016 Rhoden family killings

I also agree, the language was included in the civil suits for the same reason - placeholder designations in the event something new develops.

 

[Cool Cats]

Agree, these designations are "placeholders" in the event some new information comes to light. Two years down the road, it still hasn't. LE has plenty of evidence taken from the crime scenes. As DeWine said, all those who were involved in the murders have been arrested. There are no other suspects. There is no evidence anyone else was involved in the killings.

Pike County murders: DeWine lays out charges in 2016 Rhoden family killings

I also agree, the language was included in the civil suits for the same reason - placeholder designations in the event something new develops.

Yup. Basically "placeholders" and I believe it's extremely unlikely other defendants will be uncovered. The prosecution actually did charge 2 other people outside of the Wagner 4, the 2 grandmothers, although after the fact.

Another reason Court Documents list Jane and John Does is to keep these plaintiffs or defendants or witnesses anonymous. What if the prosecution is keeping someone involved anonymous and to protect them they only say the Wagners are involved? No, I do not think this is what is going on but this is another reason John andcJane Does are used.

Why is "John Doe" Used As a Name for an Anonymous Person?

John Doe is also used in legal proceedings to protect someone who does not want to be identified. Such aliases are often used in criminal trials where someone is concerned about reprisals, for example, and members of juries are sometimes referred to as John Does in discussions about criminal trials so that they cannot be identified and pressured.

Humm.....Who will the Defense blame the murders on?

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Interesting to read some of the older articles and see that the four Wagner's are still where they were 2 years ago. Franklin County is at the worst level possible (purple) and covid cases continue to skyrocket. Ross county is a hot mess as are most counties in Ohio, we have been put on a statewide curfew.. 10pm-0500 am. (sorry for sliding O/T)

------------------------------------------------------An attorney for the Wagner family members tells The Associated Press that his clients will be vindicated. Attorney John Clark says the family is waiting for the day "when the true culprits will be discovered and brought to justice for this terrible tragedy."

"We have absolutely no evidence that anyone else was involved," DeWine says. "The people who did it are in custody."

"There certainly was obsession with custody, obsession with control of children," DeWine says. "This is just the most bizarre story I've ever seen in being involved in law enforcement. The entire story as it will unfold at trial is just amazing."

2 Years Later, 4 Family Members Arrested In Gruesome Ohio Killings

 

[Cool Cats]

Interesting to read some of the older articles and see that the four Wagner's are still where they were 2 years ago. Franklin County is at the worst level possible (purple) and covid cases continue to skyrocket. Ross county is a hot mess as are most counties in Ohio, we have been put on a statewide curfew.. 10pm-0500 am. (sorry for sliding O/T)

------------------------------------------------------An attorney for the Wagner family members tells The Associated Press that his clients will be vindicated. Attorney John Clark says the family is waiting for the day "when the true culprits will be discovered and brought to justice for this terrible tragedy."

"We have absolutely no evidence that anyone else was involved," DeWine says. "The people who did it are in custody."

"There certainly was obsession with custody, obsession with control of children," DeWine says. "This is just the most bizarre story I've ever seen in being involved in law enforcement. The entire story as it will unfold at trial is just amazing."

2 Years Later, 4 Family Members Arrested In Gruesome Ohio Killings

I don't remember this line:

"The entire story as it will unfold at trial is just amazing."

So there is something going on we don't know about, an X factor.....

X factor involving custody or something else?

Hmmm.........

 

[Betty P]

I don't remember this line:

"The entire story as it will unfold at trial is just amazing."

So there is something going on we don't know about, an X factor.....

X factor involving custody or something else?

Hmmm.........

Well, the X factor would not involve evidence pointing to other suspects, according to DeWine. As a former prosecutor and AG, I trust he knows what he's talking about.

Will the defense try to use any innocuous information they can find to create a "red herring" argument? Yes, of course. Look in every trial covered here at WS and you'll see defense attorneys doing the same in most cases.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I don't remember this line:

"The entire story as it will unfold at trial is just amazing."

So there is something going on we don't know about, an X factor.....

X factor involving custody or something else?

Hmmm.........

Ya' think?> LOL

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Well, the X factor would not involve evidence pointing to other suspects, according to DeWine. As a former prosecutor and AG, I trust he knows what he's talking about.

Will the defense try to use any innocuous information they can find to create a "red herring" argument? Yes, of course. Look in every trial covered here at WS and you'll see defense attorneys doing the same in most cases.

She wasn't implying "other suspects" IMO. She, as well as most posters here are fully aware of defense tactics and courtroom drama. My opinion.

Cool Cats isn't a sophist and doesn't play the word twisting game. Normally she provides links to back up what she posts or says it is her opinion. Not really any of my business though.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Let the trials begin!!!!

 

[Cool Cats]

She wasn't implying "other suspects" IMO. She, as well as most posters here are fully aware of defense tactics and courtroom drama. My opinion.

Cool Cats isn't a sophist and doesn't play the word twisting game. Normally she provides links to back up what she posts or says it is her opinion. Not really any of my business though.

Thanks

The Jane and John Doe in the indictments and law suit might be in there just in case in the future they find....

Other suspects. Other suspects. Other suspects ...

The defense will tell the jury about...

Other suspects. Other suspects. Other suspects ...

It is what it is whether a poster likes it or not. Murder trials are tough. I don't make the rules.

Anything posted on here is your business to have an opinion about.

...2 Cents...

 

[Betty P]

Thanks

The Jane and John Doe in the indictments and law suit might be in there just in case in the future they find....

Other suspects. Other suspects. Other suspects ...

The defense will tell the jury about...

Other suspects. Other suspects. Other suspects ...

It is what it is whether a poster likes it or not. Murder trials are tough. I don't make the rules.

Anything posted on here is your business to have an opinion about.

...2 Cents...

Yes, we all know that the defense attorneys will run "red herring" tactics trying to point to other suspects that don't exist. As I pointed out, every defense attorney with no evidence or witnesses to help defend a client accused of murder does the same thing. It's the most common tactic of desperate defense attorneys.

<Modsnip>

 

[Cool Cats]

Yes, we all know that the defense attorneys will run "red herring" tactics trying to point to other suspects that don't exist. As I pointed out, every defense attorney with no evidence or witnesses to help defend a client accused of murder does the same thing. It's the most common tactic of desperate defense attorneys.

<Modsnip>

I was just responding to your posts about suspects like this one for example.

Then if found guilty the defense, aside from other suspects, will bring up mitigating factors. It is possible a Wagner could claim they were abused, coerced, or afraid to go against the family. This would come up during the Penalty Phase of the trial.

There are these "types" of Motions put in place already. Motions already in place for a possible Penalty Phase which means a second trial.

Opinion

 

[Betty P]

If you read back you will see I was just responding to your posts about suspects.

Then if found guilty the defense, aside from other suspects, will bring up mitigating factors. It is possible a Wagner could claim they were abused, coerced, or afraid to go against the family. This would come up during the penalty phase of the trial.

As with suspects mitigating factors will be brought up by the defense and there are motions in place already about this.

Opinion

<Modsnip>. It's standard procedure for any defense attorney to bring these things up.

 

[Cool Cats]

<Modsnip? It's standard procedure for any defense attorney to bring these things up.

I don't remember any mitigating factors discussed except Billy only having a 7th grade education precluding him as the mastermind.

They can't really get anywhere with a "diminished capacity" or
"mentally unstable" defense because GW4 had custody and in fact filed for his EX to get a psyc evaluation when she requested more visitation, this after she likely didn't see her son in person for the year he was in AK.

Jake, same, because he was awarded custody. You have to be in sound mind to gain custody - all in my opinion only. Plus, Angela apparently was taking care of both children while Jake claims to have been working long hours. I can't see much of a "mental" defense for her either.

And Billy? Why would Fred want him as FWF's Caretaker if he was "mentally unstable" or in a "diminished capacity"? Point is she wouldn't.
If anything, the Wagners have proved themselves to be entrepreneuring and stubbornly strong minded, laser focused on deciding everything together as one unit, including committing the most henious of crimes.

...2 Cents...

 

[Berrybell]

I don't remember any mitigating factors discussed except Billy only having a 7th grade education precluding him as the mastermind.

They can't really get anywhere with a "diminished capacity" or
"mentally unstable" defense because GW4 had custody and in fact filed for his EX to get a psyc evaluation when she requested more visitation, this after she likely didn't see her son in person for the year he was in AK.

Jake, same, because he was awarded custody. You have to be in sound mind to gain custody - all in my opinion only. Plus, Angela apparently was taking care of both children while Jake claims to have been working long hours. I can't see much of a "mental" defense for her either.

And Billy? Why would Fred want him as FWF's Caretaker if he was "mentally unstable" or in a "diminished capacity"? Point is she wouldn't.
If anything, the Wagners have proved themselves to be entrepreneuring and stubbornly strong minded, laser focused on deciding everything together as one unit, including committing the most henious of crimes.

...2 Cents...

This is very good CC and on point.

 

[Cool Cats]

"Berrybell[/B], post: 16479492, member: 164433"]This is very good CC and on point.

Thank You Berrybell

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Thanks

The Jane and John Doe in the indictments and law suit might be in there just in case in the future they find....

Other suspects. Other suspects. Other suspects ...

The defense will tell the jury about...

Other suspects. Other suspects. Other suspects ...

It is what it is whether a poster likes it or not. Murder trials are tough. I don't make the rules.

Anything posted on here is your business to have an opinion about.

...2 Cents...

You're welcome CC. Good post, and I agree that we will hear about "other suspects" way more than we want to.

 

[sunshineray]

I don't remember this line:

"The entire story as it will unfold at trial is just amazing."

So there is something going on we don't know about, an X factor.....

X factor involving custody or something else?

Hmmm.........

We know about it and Dewine mentioned it also...drugs were an undercurrent in the victims and their murderer's lives. IMO, it's a given that the defense attorneys will be bringing up a lot of things and in particular people involved in that world to try and cast that reasonable doubt in juror's minds. The prosecutors have to have all that in hand before going to trial and I have faith that they do. I'm not worried about that getting in the way of guilty verdicts. AJMO

 

[Betty P]

You're welcome CC. Good post, and I agree that we will hear about "other suspects" way more than we want to.

No doubt we will. I'll wait until then to discuss those red herrings. JMO, I'm not sure I want to give the defense a head start, though.

 

[Nanasteele]

I don't remember any mitigating factors discussed except Billy only having a 7th grade education precluding him as the mastermind.

They can't really get anywhere with a "diminished capacity" or
"mentally unstable" defense because GW4 had custody and in fact filed for his EX to get a psyc evaluation when she requested more visitation, this after she likely didn't see her son in person for the year he was in AK.

Jake, same, because he was awarded custody. You have to be in sound mind to gain custody - all in my opinion only. Plus, Angela apparently was taking care of both children while Jake claims to have been working long hours. I can't see much of a "mental" defense for her either.

And Billy? Why would Fred want him as FWF's Caretaker if he was "mentally unstable" or in a "diminished capacity"? Point is she wouldn't.
If anything, the Wagners have proved themselves to be entrepreneuring and stubbornly strong minded, laser focused on deciding everything together as one unit, including committing the most henious of crimes.

...2 Cents...[/QUOTE
I don't believe you have to be smart in order to be evil. These deaths were committed by evil people!