OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #59

[curious95]

Hello everyone! Took an extended break over covid as crazy life and this slow movement was frustrating me. I just spent the last week catching up and want to send a giant THANK YOU to all of you posting for keeping up with everything and giving me a reliable place to catch up! I hope this year is the start of justice being served for the Rhodens, Manleys and the Gilleys. They have waited long enough!! Thanks again

 

[Cool Cats]

you know who was shot only one time? Also, how it’s been speculated that a silencer must have been used on the weapon that killed KR.

Kenny was shot one time. If all 3 guns used that night had suppressors that means that every one of the victims was shot with a suppressor including Kenny. The only way Kenny would have been shot without a suppressor is if one of the guns did not have a suppressor on it and then that gun was used on Kenny.

George Wagner request for bail denied after hearing reveals new details

1:08 into the video - George's Bond Hearing - BCI thinks a suppressor was used in the homicides.

Canepa:
As a result of your investigation did you make a determination whether you thought it was likely that a silencer had been used in this - in these homicides?

Scheiderer:
A suppressor yes.

Canepa:
A suppressor.

Scheiderer:
Yes.

Canepa:
What made you believe that?

Scheiderer:
'Cause at the one location there was 3 victims all in 3 different bedrooms that appeared to be killed in their sleep which to us told us that somehow - that the firearm had to be suppressed - the sound had to be suppressed.

Canepa:
Otherwise the others....

Scheiderer:
Would have waken up.

Canepa:
Been woke up. And was that at more than one location? Which 2 scenes specifically are you speaking of?

Scheiderer:
So, would be at Dana's residence which was Dana Hanna and Little Chris. And then at Frankie's residence which was Frankie and Hannah Hazel Gilley.

 

[Cool Cats]

IIRC, George is the only one for whom they don't have DNA evidence. It was stated during one of his hearings, when his attorney asked prosecutor AC.

ETA: I've been re-watching the video of Scheiderer's testimony and haven't gotten to any part where there is evidence photos shown, though have had many interruptions while trying to watch. If you have the time stamps, it would be appreciated. I'm assuming it appears on the screen behind and above Scheiderer. TIA

George's Bond Hearing
George Wagner request for bail denied after hearing reveals new details

Bloody shoe impressions on floor at Chris SR's = Starts at 1:12:40 = Photo

Angela in Walmart = Starts at 1:22:40 = Photo

Shell casing found in Frankie's and HG's bed in between where they were laying = Pause on 1:25:22 = Photo

The photo shows a blue gloved hand holding the casing, just the top is visible. Scheiderer describes it as a fired Remington 22 long rifle shell casing. The red background may or may not be their bed. I had thought before that this was their bed but now I see that it could just be they used a red background for the photo.

Dana floor plan = Starts at 1:26 = diagram not a photo.
In Dana's floor plan I could see the rooms outlined but could not read the writing that labels the rooms so you only get a very general idea.

Frankie floor plan = Starts at 1:25:44 = diagram not a photo.
I got a very good look at Franklie's floor plan by pausing a few different times. For example one pause shows the bedroom area, one pause shows the living room and kitchen area and pausing another time shows the bedroom attatched to the kitchen.

Very clear if you stop on it just right. A trick is to pause the video then slowly move your finger along the fast forward/rewind line because it brings up the exact frame. Also when you do that the pause icon in the middle of the video goes away. Keep finger pressed down.

You come in through the front door and next to the front door on the left is the couch. To the left is a kitchen with a table and the back door is off the kitchen. To the left of the kitchen on the far left side of the house is a bedroom with a closet. Between the kitchen and bedroom is a bathroom.

When you come in the front door there is a hallway directly to the right and the first door on the left is a very small bedroom then next to that is a bathroom and then next to the bathroom on the far right side of the house is Frankie's and HG's bedroom.

Walk into Frankie's bedroom and on the left wall is a crib, past the crib is the bed, the head of the bed is against the left wall. Frankie is on the side closest to the crib, HG on the side furthest away. It is such a simple sketch - no details - except the sketch makes it look like they are on their sides facing towards each other but this doesn't mean they actually were.

On the floor plan above HG it says her first and last name and on the floor plan below Frankie it says Clarence before it cuts off. Clarence is Frankie's given name.

 

[Dudly]

you know who was shot only one time? Also, how it’s been speculated that a silencer must have been used on the weapon that killed KR.

It says “at least one time”, not only one time. We don’t even know if it was used to kill anyone at this point.

 

[OhioBlues]

Anything to do with Websleuths is not too much trouble for me. Glad to find i

Kenny was shot one time. If all 3 guns used that night had suppressors that means that every one of the victims was shot with a suppressor including Kenny. The only way Kenny would have been shot without a suppressor is if one of the guns did not have a suppressor on it and then that gun was used on Kenny.

George Wagner request for bail denied after hearing reveals new details

1:08 into the video - George's Bond Hearing - BCI thinks a suppressor was used in the homicides.

Canepa:
As a result of your investigation did you make a determination whether you thought it was likely that a silencer had been used in this - in these homicides?

Scheiderer:
A suppressor yes.

Canepa:
A suppressor.

Scheiderer:
Yes.

Canepa:
What made you believe that?

Scheiderer:
'Cause at the one location there was 3 victims all in 3 different bedrooms that appeared to be killed in their sleep which to us told us that somehow - that the firearm had to be suppressed - the sound had to be suppressed.

Canepa:
Otherwise the others....

Scheiderer:
Would have waken up.

Canepa:
Been woke up. And was that at more than one location? Which 2 scenes specifically are you speaking of?

Scheiderer:
So, would be at Dana's residence which was Dana Hanna and Little Chris. And then at Frankie's residence which was Frankie and Hannah Hazel Gilley.

Thanks!

AC said silencer and RS corrected her and called it a suppressor.

There was a podcast about this crime and one host called it a silencer and the other corrected them to use the proper term of suppressor. Funny enough, later in the podcast the host that had corrected the person then called it a silencer instead of a suppressor.

I discuss this 'suppressor' issue with DH and he corrects me regardless of what I call it.

It's maddening. Apparently, there is a difference between the 2 items though.

When I watch the YouTube Maglite Suppressor video's it seems loud enough to me that I would wake up if I was inside a trailer in a nearby room.

 

[Dudly]

Thanks!

AC said silencer and RS corrected her and called it a suppressor.

There was a podcast about this crime and one host called it a silencer and the other corrected them to use the proper term of suppressor. Funny enough, later in the podcast the host that had corrected the person then called it a silencer instead of a suppressor.

I discuss this 'suppressor' issue with DH and he corrects me regardless of what I call it.

It's maddening. Apparently, there is a difference between the 2 items though.

When I watch the YouTube Maglite Suppressor video's it seems loud enough to me that I would wake up if I was inside a trailer in a nearby room.

I guess the correct terminology is suppressor because it suppresses the sound it does not silence the sound. There is still a sound to be heard.

 

[NotHammerToed]

It says “at least one time”, not only one time. We don’t even know if it was used to kill anyone at this point.

Speculation and theory if we knew the details there wouldn’t be any need for discussion.

 

[NWLady]

The "gag" order was placed on the Wagner 4 as well as their attorneys, and Fred and her attorney... but since she is no longer under court supervision her gag order is no longer valid.

The podcast participants and general public are under no such order. That would be asinine. If such an order could be issued as a blanket gag order lol, everyone (including us) would be screwed when it comes to discussion of this case.


"A gag order has been issued in the case, preventing attorneys and law enforcement from discussing it."

I quit posting on this thread quite some time ago but do still follow along and a "like" just wasn't enough for this post... I love it!

@Caylee Advocate - you say things ohhh so eloquently!

 

[Dudly]

Maybe the maglite tube caps were not drilled properly and when the bullet struck the cap it ruined the silencer? A suppressor is a suppressor even if it has not been used. Having an unregistered item like that is against federal law. Actually using it breaks more laws. Been that way for decades.

If made correctly the hole in the baffles are about .050”-.060” larger diameter than the bullet. So it is possible the first shot or two scraped the side of the hole in a baffle. If the hole is off center enough, the bullet could deform the baffle and it may not be useable... these are just possibilities and my opinion only...

 

[Cool Cats]

Thanks!

AC said silencer and RS corrected her and called it a suppressor.

There was a podcast about this crime and one host called it a silencer and the other corrected them to use the proper term of suppressor. Funny enough, later in the podcast the host that had corrected the person then called it a silencer instead of a suppressor.

I discuss this 'suppressor' issue with DH and he corrects me regardless of what I call it.

It's maddening. Apparently, there is a difference between the 2 items though.

When I watch the YouTube Maglite Suppressor video's it seems loud enough to me that I would wake up if I was inside a trailer in a nearby room.

Silencer vs. Suppressor: Is There a Difference? – Silencer Central.
(Know more than DH ... LOL)

This history explains it well - false advertising:

There is no difference between a silencer and a suppressor, and the terms are 100 percent interchangeable. So why the different names, you might ask?

Well, we must go back to the very beginning, with the invention of the Maxim Silencer. Invented by Hiram Percy Maxim, son of the famous machine gun inventor, the Maxim Silencer was patented in 1909 and was the first successful silencer on the market.

Now, truth in advertising laws were lax to nonexistent back then and breathtaking claims were the order of the day. Maxim advertised that his crude device made of stamped sheet metal baffles stacked inside a steel tube would render a firearm silent.

This is pretty much impossible, even today unless you use a highly engineered device with carefully crafted subsonic ammo or low powered rimfire ammo.

In other words, a silencer isn’t exactly a “silencer.” It’s more like a muffler (which Maxim went on to develop for cars) or a device for suppressing sound. You know, a suppressor.

However, the name “silencer” stuck. Later on, shooters and manufacturers promoted the more accurate “suppressor” to reflect the reality of these devices.

 

[Cool Cats]

Maybe the maglite tube caps were not drilled properly and when the bullet struck the cap it ruined the silencer? A suppressor is a suppressor even if it has not been used. Having an unregistered item like that is against federal law. Actually using it breaks more laws. Been that way for decades.

Wagners - Count 14
Unlawful Possession of Dangerous Ordnance - a Fifth Degree Felony

Cautionary Note:: All silencers require a $200 tax stamp from the BATFE in the USA. I caution U.S. readers not to produce one unless you pay the tax and acquire the proper paperwork first.

The potential penalties for possession of a silencer, without the payment of the tax, are draconian. Federal guidelines call for a minimum sentence of 27 months in prison, without parole. The potential fine is $10,000. The maximum sentence, if the silencer possession coincided with possession of drugs with intent to distribute, is 30 years in prison without parole, and a $250,000 fine.

The sequence to legally make your own silencer is this:

• Send in the completed form 1, fingerprint cards, and payment of the $200 tax to the BATFE. Pay attention to details. The link shows how to do it.
• Wait for approval of the Form 1, and the Tax Stamp form. Do NOT begin the build until after the next step.
• When you have been approved, make the silencer.
• Building 80% Gun Silencers, The Parts, The Forms, The Warnings

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I quit posting on this thread quite some time ago but do still follow along and a "like" just wasn't enough for this post... I love it!

@Caylee Advocate - you say things ohhh so eloquently!

Aww... color me embarrassed.
I do have a way with words sometimes, I am not the type to mince words, and am very outspoken. Glad you stopped in, now stay a while.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Wagners - Count 14
Unlawful Possession of Dangerous Ordnance - a Fifth Degree Felony

Cautionary Note:: All silencers require a $200 tax stamp from the BATFE in the USA. I caution U.S. readers not to produce one unless you pay the tax and acquire the proper paperwork first.

The potential penalties for possession of a silencer, without the payment of the tax, are draconian. Federal guidelines call for a minimum sentence of 27 months in prison, without parole. The potential fine is $10,000. The maximum sentence, if the silencer possession coincided with possession of drugs with intent to distribute, is 30 years in prison without parole, and a $250,000 fine.

The sequence to legally make your own silencer is this:

• Send in the completed form 1, fingerprint cards, and payment of the $200 tax to the BATFE. Pay attention to details. The link shows how to do it.
• Wait for approval of the Form 1, and the Tax Stamp form. Do NOT begin the build until after the next step.
• When you have been approved, make the silencer.
• Building 80% Gun Silencers, The Parts, The Forms, The Warnings

I can't imagine a scenario in which one, who is a law abiding citizen, would have the need for a homemade silencer.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Did you Sluthers notice the photo of the Bloody footprint that the blood had just started to dry on the outside of the footprint, that was where the blood started turning dark reddish brown,
Drying properties of bloodstains on common indoor surfaces - PubMed
The time of death had to be very close to daylight if not the bloody footprint would have looked a lot different than it did in GW4 bond hearing, 60 minutes is average dry time for blood, JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

WAVERLY, Ohio (WKRC) - Documents filed Monday in Jake Wagner’s case reveal new information about some of the evidence prosecutors intend to use against him at his trial for the Rhoden and Gilley murders.


Just filed court documents reveal details about evidence in Rhoden case

 

[Niner]

Jake:
Update on docket:

02/25/2021 (MOTION #54) MOTION TO COMPEL THE PRODUCTION OF "OTHER ACTS" EVIDENCE PURSUANT TO EVID.R.404(B) FILED (ORIGINAL)
Attorney: MEYERS, GREGORY W

02/25/2021 MOTION #55) MOTION TO COMPEL THE PRODUCTION OF TRANSCRIPTS OF AUDIO RECORDINGS THE STATE INTENDS TO USE AT TRIAL FILED (ORIGINAL)
Attorney: MEYERS, GREGORY W

02/25/2021 (MOTION $56) MOTION TO CONDUCT A HEARING AS SOON AS POSSIBLE REGARDING DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO COMPEL DISCOVERY AND THE STATUS OF THE STATE"S COMPLIANCE WITH DISCOVERY DUTIES FILED (ORIGINAL)
Attorney: MEYERS, GREGORY W

02/25/2021 (MOTION #56.1)--SUPPLEMENTAL MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT OF DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO CONDUCT A HEARING AS SOON AS POSSIBLE REGARDING DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO COMPEL DISCOVERY AND THE STATUS OF THE STATE'S COMPLIANCE WITH DISCOVERY DUTIES FILED (ORIGINAL)
Attorney: MEYERS, GREGORY W

03/04/2021 (MOTION #54.1) DEFENDANT'S SUPPLELMENTAL MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT OF HIS MOTION TO COMPEL THE PRODUCTION OF "OTHER ACTS" EVIDENCE PURSUANT TO EVID.R.404(B) FILED (FAX)
Attorney: MEYERS, GREGORY W: Attorney: MOONEY, WILLIAM J

03/04/2021 (MOTION #55.1) DEFENDANT'S SUPPLEMENTAL MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT OF HIS MOTION TO COMPEL THE PRODUCTION OF TRANSCRIPTS OF AUDIO RECORDINGS THE STATE INTENDS TO USE AT TRIAL FILED (FAX)
Attorney: MEYERS, GREGORY W: Attorney: MOONEY, WILLIAM J

03/08/2021 (MOTION #54.1) DEFENDANT'S SUPPLELMENTAL MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT OF HIS MOTION TO COMPEL THE PRODUCTION OF "OTHER ACTS" EVIDENCE PURSUANT TO EVID.R.404(B) FILED (ORIGINAL)

03/09/2021 (MOTION #55.1) DEFENDANT'S SUPPLEMENTAL MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT OF HIS MOTION TO COMPEL THE PRODUCTION OF TRANSCRIPTS OF AUDIO RECORDINGS THE STATE INTENDS TO USE AT TRIAL FILED (ORIGINAL)



Hearings:
05/12/2021 09:00 AM MOTION HEARING DEERING, RANDY D

08/30/2021 08:30 AM JURY TRIAL DEERING, RANDY D

link: https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org/e...8k2okP0fC5ZeLlYAi6sPeyMIUCSjztchHtYuwQjhzNVmQ

 

[ColMustard]

I can't imagine a scenario in which one, who is a law abiding citizen, would have the need for a homemade silencer.

For hunting or target practice, the suppressor allows either to be less intrusive to neighbors, pets, livestock, and game animals in the woods.

Can it be abused and used illegally, absolutely, but some years back (2014?) Ohio made it legal for private ownership.

New Ohio gun rules allowing noise suppressors take effect

 

[Cool Cats]

Jake - New Motion Hearing scheduled:

April 12th 2021
9:00 AM

Billy - Motion Hearing

April 5th 2021
1:30 PM

 

[Betty P]

George's Bond Hearing
George Wagner request for bail denied after hearing reveals new details

Bloody shoe impressions on floor at Chris SR's = Starts at 1:12:40 = Photo

Angela in Walmart = Starts at 1:22:40 = Photo

Shell casing found in Frankie's and HG's bed in between where they were laying = Pause on 1:25:22 = Photo

The photo shows a blue gloved hand holding the casing, just the top is visible. Scheiderer describes it as a fired Remington 22 long rifle shell casing. The red background may or may not be their bed. I had thought before that this was their bed but now I see that it could just be they used a red background for the photo.

Dana floor plan = Starts at 1:26 = diagram not a photo.
In Dana's floor plan I could see the rooms outlined but could not read the writing that labels the rooms so you only get a very general idea.

Frankie floor plan = Starts at 1:25:44 = diagram not a photo.
I got a very good look at Franklie's floor plan by pausing a few different times. For example one pause shows the bedroom area, one pause shows the living room and kitchen area and pausing another time shows the bedroom attatched to the kitchen.

Very clear if you stop on it just right. A trick is to pause the video then slowly move your finger along the fast forward/rewind line because it brings up the exact frame. Also when you do that the pause icon in the middle of the video goes away. Keep finger pressed down.

You come in through the front door and next to the front door on the left is the couch. To the left is a kitchen with a table and the back door is off the kitchen. To the left of the kitchen on the far left side of the house is a bedroom with a closet. Between the kitchen and bedroom is a bathroom.

When you come in the front door there is a hallway directly to the right and the first door on the left is a very small bedroom then next to that is a bathroom and then next to the bathroom on the far right side of the house is Frankie's and HG's bedroom.

Walk into Frankie's bedroom and on the left wall is a crib, past the crib is the bed, the head of the bed is against the left wall. Frankie is on the side closest to the crib, HG on the side furthest away. It is such a simple sketch - no details - except the sketch makes it look like they are on their sides facing towards each other but this doesn't mean they actually were.

On the floor plan above HG it says her first and last name and on the floor plan below Frankie it says Clarence before it cuts off. Clarence is Frankie's given name.

Thanks, Cool Cats! I've been out doing yard work the last couple days so haven't had a chance to finish reviewing that video.

 

[Cool Cats]

Thanks, Cool Cats! I've been out doing yard work the last couple days so haven't had a chance to finish reviewing that video.

No prob. I like researching and transcribing etc...

My son said he could help me get screen shots but not sure if they would meet TOS standards.