GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #63

[Betty P]

Not sure I understand but John Patrick Parker is G4 defense attorney.

I understand that. Reading his objection and putting it in perspective with the prosecution's plan for a meeting, I get the impression Parker is trying to control the agenda for how all 3 defense teams will operate going forward. By denying the 11 day deadline extension, Parker and Nash are preventing the prosecution from meeting with all 3 teams to discuss the proffer.

JMO, is he trying to discourage the other defense teams from accepting a plea deal for their clients? Something is up.

ETA: Whatever the strategy, it's interesting to watch the battle between AC and the 3 defense teams. I have a feeling once the key evidence from Jake's confession is revealed, the defense teams will have an uphill battle.

 

[Cool Cats]

I understand that. Reading his objection and putting it in perspective with the prosecution's plan for a meeting, I get the impression Parker is trying to control the agenda for how all 3 defense teams will operate going forward. By denying the 11 day deadline extension, Parker and Nash are preventing the prosecution from meeting with all 3 teams to discuss the proffer.

JMO, is he trying to discourage the other defense teams from accepting a plea deal for their clients? Something is up.

Maybe we will find out something about it at Billy's Hearing?

07/19/2021
DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR SPECIFIC PERFORMANCE OF THE PROSECUTION IN DISMISSING THE MURDER SPECIFICATIONS AGAINST DEFENDANT GEORGE WAGNER III (MOTION 51)

07/19/2021
ORAL HEARING ON MOTION 51
09/16/2021 Time: 11:00 AM

 

[Piffcat]

Here is a good photo of the buildings.

Flying W Farms Inc


Farms in Piketon Ohio
Flying W Farms Inc on EquineNow
Flying W Farms is 2000 acres in the beautiful hills of southeastern ohio. Founded in 1975 by George "Bob" Wagner and his wife Fredericka.

New England, Cool.
Did Canepa mention the buckets were in pond H20?

About the search after RN's plea it says this on her Docket:

12/02/2019
PLEA OF GUILTY -- DEFENDANT HAS ENTERED A PLEA OF GUILTY TO THE STIPULATED LESSER INCLUDED OFFENSE OF COUNT 4, TO WIT: OBSTRUCTING OFFICIAL BUSINESS, 2921.31, M-2

01/21/2021
STATE'S SUPPLEMENTAL DISCOVERY FILED

So I wonder if this SUPPLEMENTAL DISCOVERY is what they found in that search?

What I meant to imply was that Angela's mom or another relative maybe chris knew the guns were in a pond at fwf but not which one. On this info I'm assuming they searched ponds but came up blank
This was to put in perspective just how challenging this case was for le. Most evil murderers dont have the property options for hiding. In this vein I've always found it ridiculous the wagners claimed they put all their belongings at 41 auto cuz they didnt have room to store...like thousands of acres? They thought soooooo smart hiding it

 

[Cool Cats]

I understand that. Reading his objection and putting it in perspective with the prosecution's plan for a meeting, I get the impression Parker is trying to control the agenda for how all 3 defense teams will operate going forward. By denying the 11 day deadline extension, Parker and Nash are preventing the prosecution from meeting with all 3 teams to discuss the proffer.

JMO, is he trying to discourage the other defense teams from accepting a plea deal for their clients? Something is up.

ETA: Whatever the strategy, it's interesting to watch the battle between AC and the 3 defense teams. I have a feeling once the key evidence from Jake's confession is revealed, the defense teams will have an uphill battle.

PS

"I have a feeling once the key evidence from Jake's confession is revealed, the defense teams will have an uphill battle."

The key evidence from Jake's confession could derail Nash's carefully crafted strategy. I forgot they will see it. Have they seen it? Humm....

 

[Cool Cats]

What I meant to imply was that Angela's mom or another relative maybe chris knew the guns were in a pond at fwf but not which one. On this info I'm assuming they searched ponds but came up blank
This was to put in perspective just how challenging this case was for le. Most evil murderers dont have the property options for hiding. In this vein I've always found it ridiculous the wagners claimed they put all their belongings at 41 auto cuz they didnt have room to store...like thousands of acres? They thought soooooo smart hiding it

Thanks for clarification.

They definitely searched H20 sources. Dive Team was there.

Twitter 30 second video of search with metal detectors by the dive team.

Angenette Levy Emmy-nominated reporter and Anchor.
@Local12
Nov 7, 2019

"Divers searching areas of water on Fredericka Wagner’s farm in Rhoden family murder investigation. Agents also using metal detectors to search other areas."

 

[Covert Operative]

I understand that. Reading his objection and putting it in perspective with the prosecution's plan for a meeting, I get the impression Parker is trying to control the agenda for how all 3 defense teams will operate going forward. By denying the 11 day deadline extension, Parker and Nash are preventing the prosecution from meeting with all 3 teams to discuss the proffer.

JMO, is he trying to discourage the other defense teams from accepting a plea deal for their clients? Something is up.

ETA: Whatever the strategy, it's interesting to watch the battle between AC and the 3 defense teams. I have a feeling once the key evidence from Jake's confession is revealed, the defense teams will have an uphill battle.

I think they can meet with them whenever they feel like it, after he gets his proffer or whenever. He is objecting to them having a extension to turn over to him. By the time the judge rules on it, the extension will have passed. He may be worried they will then come up with an excuse like they could not meet again and try to get another extension.

I am not sure that it is normal to meet with defense before turning over discovery. I do think something is up but not sure what.

 

[Covert Operative]

Not sure I can explain my thinking very well. My theory, understanding of the plea deal.
I have never fully understood the plea deal - as you say, strange that another co defendant can negotiate a DP off the table for other co defendants.
Jake agreed to admit guilt and to testify truthfully about all that happened before, during and after. It is my understanding that Jake's testimony could be in various forms, deposition, recorded interviews, etc. So Jake basically has already testified. Told all.
So, if the remaining 3 defendants refute or try to negate Jake's testimony, and demand a trial, they are basically negating the plea deal for LWOP for themselves.
If Jake supposedly (per 3 Wagners) did not tell the truth, then the plea deal can not stand.
Jakes plea deal was basically for himself, but the other 3 could tag along and benefit if they cooperated and admitted guilt.
No admission of guilt by remaining 3 Wagners, demand for trial therefore means Jake was not truthful. So DP back on.
I do think Jake retains his own deal of LWOP.
I know, it is a theory that is convoluted. Just like the Wagners.

You could be right I did not understand it that way. I think the remaining 3 are free to defend themselves the way they want without worrying about the DP as long as JW cooperates. G4 already has a trial date set. They do not have to abide by the plea deal is how I see it. The state and JW made that deal, so the DP as a bargaining tool was taken off the table for the other 3.

JW could change his mind about testifying, would not be that shocking. They could still use everything they have from him I believe so that is in their favor regardless. Maybe he wanted it off because he did not think any of them would plea.

I would have made that same deal to get the evidence and the confession though. I would deal with the negotiating/trial on the other 3 however I had to.

 

[Ann99]

You could be right I did not understand it that way. I think the remaining 3 are free to defend themselves the way they want without worrying about the DP as long as JW cooperates. G4 already has a trial date set. They do not have to abide by the plea deal is how I see it. The state and JW made that deal, so the DP as a bargaining tool was taken off the table for the other 3.

JW could change his mind about testifying, would not be that shocking. They could still use everything they have from him I believe so that is in their favor regardless. Maybe he wanted it off because he did not think any of them would plea.

I would have made that same deal to get the evidence and the confession though. I would deal with the negotiating/trial on the other 3 however I had to.

I agree with what you say. Initially I understood the plea deal just as you describe. But after playing out the various scenarios in my mind I thought there must be something more that we don't see or that is held in reserve, because AC would be striving to wrap it all up with all 4 admitting guilt.
Maybe the way I described it isn't even close to being the situation.
BW and AW, or even just one of those two could want to plead guilty, no trial, receive LWOP.
Obviously G4 does not want to do that. Not yet.
With one or both of BW, AW pleading guilty and verifying JW information, evidence and confession, how could Geo4 claim innocence/ non participation and expect a trial to go his way?

I feel AC must retain some card, some element of persuasion to get the other 3 to go along with the life saving plea deal Jake seems to have made.
I just don't see AC sitting back and letting it all play out over years without a strong strategy.

 

[Ann99]

One last thought. The Lawyers.
Getting a high profile client out from under a death penalty by a deal is considered a Win.
Having a high profile client found guilty is considered a Loss.
These Lawyers will have a win or a loss on this high profile case that will follow them for their entire career. They know that.

 

[Cool Cats]

Not sure I can explain my thinking very well. My theory, understanding of the plea deal.
I have never fully understood the plea deal - as you say, strange that another co defendant can negotiate a DP off the table for other co defendants.
Jake agreed to admit guilt and to testify truthfully about all that happened before, during and after. It is my understanding that Jake's testimony could be in various forms, deposition, recorded interviews, etc. So Jake basically has already testified. Told all.
So, if the remaining 3 defendants refute or try to negate Jake's testimony, and demand a trial, they are basically negating the plea deal for LWOP for themselves.
If Jake supposedly (per 3 Wagners) did not tell the truth, then the plea deal can not stand.
Jakes plea deal was basically for himself, but the other 3 could tag along and benefit if they cooperated and admitted guilt.
No admission of guilt by remaining 3 Wagners, demand for trial therefore means Jake was not truthful. So DP back on.
I do think Jake retains his own deal of LWOP.
I know, it is a theory that is convoluted. Just like the Wagners.

Jake was able to negotiate the DP off the table for his co-defendants because they are his family and it is pretty sick to testify against your family when you could actually help them get the DP. That is outrageous. His lawyers made sure of this.

This is a unique Case which calls for unique situations.

The plea deal is simple:

Jake has to be honest with the prosecution and then testify against his family at their trials, that's it, no DP for all 4 of them.

What if some of them do not go to trial? DP is still off the table because Jake lived up to his bargain and spilled the beans plus they would have to plead guilty and their lawyers would make sure, with that guilty plea, that the DP is off the table, and that they get it in writing with signatures as Billy's lawyers are going to try to do at his Hearing in September.

The only way now for the DP to be reinstated is if Jake doesn't testify truthfully at their trials. He will need to stick with the "story" he gave prosecutors. Canepa will question him on the witness stand just like she did at the Bond Hearing. She will know if Jake is lying.

Now say Jake does lie! Ok, then the DP goes back on the table in full force for all 4 Wagners. But Jake can't lie because then he too would have his DP reinstated.

The whole point of his plea deal was to avoid the DP, Canepa said he didn't want the DP. He saw it coming. Even though Ohio is not using the DP right now because drug companies do not want to make drugs for that, he still would be isolated on DR. Mostly in your cell. No going out for whatever the prison offers the general population.

Ohio will stop executions until lawmakers pick alternative to lethal injection, Gov. Mike DeWine says
“Lethal injection appears to us to be impossible from a practical point of view today,” DeWine, a Greene County Republican, said to the AP.

Youngest Wagner agrees to plea deal to avoid death penalty in Pike County murders
"That removes the sentence of death from, as a possible sentence, that will not be possible, at that point, to impose a possible death sentence. Do you understand that?" the judge said.

 

[Covert Operative]

I agree with what you say. Initially I understood the plea deal just as you describe. But after playing out the various scenarios in my mind I thought there must be something more that we don't see or that is held in reserve, because AC would be striving to wrap it all up with all 4 admitting guilt.
Maybe the way I described it isn't even close to being the situation.
BW and AW, or even just one of those two could want to plead guilty, no trial, receive LWOP.
Obviously G4 does not want to do that. Not yet.
With one or both of BW, AW pleading guilty and verifying JW information, evidence and confession, how could Geo4 claim innocence/ non participation and expect a trial to go his way?

I feel AC must retain some card, some element of persuasion to get the other 3 to go along with the life saving plea deal Jake seems to have made.
I just don't see AC sitting back and letting it all play out over years without a strong strategy.

I believe they probably already have the option to plead guilty with the DP off the table and get LWOP or go to trial and get LWOP. (DP just has not officially been dropped)I do not think they have to go along with anything in the plea deal the State and JW made but they may choose to.

I do think they want the DP dropped before they do either but I am not sure at what point the State will have to drop it. I feel they will have to drop before trial at least if not sooner . There could be some caveats in the plea agreement that we are unaware of. With the motion 51 filing it does not seem that there are, but there could be. Maybe we will learn more about the plea agreement and if there are any special stipulations on Sept 19th.

 

[Covert Operative]

One last thought. The Lawyers.
Getting a high profile client out from under a death penalty by a deal is considered a Win.
Having a high profile client found guilty is considered a Loss.
These Lawyers will have a win or a loss on this high profile case that will follow them for their entire career. They know that.

Not sure if that sentence "while trying to simultaneously also resolve these cases judiciously" means anything.

I think they are already out from under a DP column so not sure if that is a win for them already, a win they actually had nothing to do with.

 

[almond]

DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR SPECIFIC PERFORMANCE OF THE PROSECUTION IN DISMISSING THE MURDER SPECIFICATIONS AGAINST DEFENDANT GEORGE WAGNER III (MOTION 51)

CC, Not sure if I missed an answer to this... What does Specific Performance actually mean? Does it mean he wants the DP offer in writing?

 

[Cool Cats]

CC, Not sure if I missed an answer to this... What does Specific Performance actually mean? Does it mean he wants the DP offer in writing?

Specific Performance - Definition, Examples, Cases, Processes

The term “specific performance” refers to literal performance of one’s obligations under a contract.

Should a party default on his obligation, a court may issue an order for specific performance, requiring a party to perform a particular action. The action is usually one that has been previously detailed in a contract.

So Canepa did a signed plea deal with Jake saying the DP is off the table for him
and his family. (The action is usually one that has been previously detailed in a contract)
Now Billy's attorneys want the prosecution to come through for him.
(specific performance) Meaning Billy wants it in writing for him specifically.

It is to get someone to preform according to a contract and in Billy's case it's
part of Jake's plea deal.

They are treating it as if it is a contract for Billy when I don't think so because it has Jake's signature not Billy's, and it is Jake's plea deal not Billy's.

I'm not sure of the ins and outs so I expect to learn alot about it at Billy's Hearing next month.

Notice we only, right now anyway, see the specific performance request for Billy. That figures, he could be chomping at the bit insisting his lawyers get him something in writing!

I am a bit suspicious that he is directing that show. Why? Because his lawyers said as much in his last hearing, that he is outspoken and tells them when he doesn't like the way the Case is going. Also, he complained about the audio and maybe something else, in the Courtroom, basically the Court room isn't up to snuff.

On top of this he had the audacity to write out his own document wanting to to revive his speedy trial. He circumvented his lawyers on this but then the next week did the same. His lawyers deleted each one.

Remember a bunch of stolen stuff was in his shed?
He said he bought the stuff "off of some guy" and can he just pay a fine.

Here is his slap on the wrist sentences, GRRR....

For having stolen property, alot of it:

A judge found him guilty of the two counts and ordered him to 180 days jail time, which was suspended for a probation period of three years. He was ordered to pay $500.

For waving his gun at a motorist:

Billy Wagner was sentenced to 30 days jail time in the 2001 case, which was suspended in lieu of one-year probation, the records show. He was also sentenced to a $100 fine and ordered to pay court costs — altogether $223.

And while the gun was confiscated and ordered destroyed, Billy Wagner faced no penalty under Ohio law restricting his future use of weapons. Humm.....

Father charged in Pike County murders had past brushes with law

 

[almond]

Specific Performance - Definition, Examples, Cases, Processes

The term “specific performance” refers to literal performance of one’s obligations under a contract.

Should a party default on his obligation, a court may issue an order for specific performance, requiring a party to perform a particular action. The action is usually one that has been previously detailed in a contract.

So Canepa did a signed plea deal with Jake saying the DP is off the table for him
and his family. (The action is usually one that has been previously detailed in a contract)
Now Billy's attorneys want the prosecution to come through for him.
(specific performance) Meaning Billy wants it in writing for him specifically.

It is to get someone to preform according to a contract and in Billy's case it's
part of Jake's plea deal.

They are treating it as if it is a contract for Billy when I don't think so because it has Jake's signature not Billy's, and it is Jake's plea deal not Billy's.

I'm not sure of the ins and outs so I expect to learn alot about it at Billy's Hearing next month.

Notice we only, right now anyway, see the specific performance request for Billy. That figures, he could be chomping at the bit insisting his lawyers get him something in writing!

I am a bit suspicious that he is directing that show. Why? Because his lawyers said as much in his last hearing, that he is outspoken and tells them when he doesn't like the way the Case is going. Also, he complained about the audio and maybe something else, in the Courtroom, basically the Court room isn't up to snuff.

On top of this he had the audacity to write out his own document wanting to to revive his speedy trial. He circumvented his lawyers on this but then the next week did the same. His lawyers deleted each one.

Remember a bunch of stolen stuff was in his shed?
He said he bought the stuff "off of some guy" and can he just pay a fine.

Here is his slap on the wrist sentences, GRRR....

For having stolen property, alot of it:

A judge found him guilty of the two counts and ordered him to 180 days jail time, which was suspended for a probation period of three years. He was ordered to pay $500.

For waving his gun at a motorist:

Billy Wagner was sentenced to 30 days jail time in the 2001 case, which was suspended in lieu of one-year probation, the records show. He was also sentenced to a $100 fine and ordered to pay court costs — altogether $223.

And while the gun was confiscated and ordered destroyed, Billy Wagner faced no penalty under Ohio law restricting his future use of weapons. Humm.....

Father charged in Pike County murders had past brushes with law

Thanks, CC. I prefer to have things put in writing too. Maybe Billy will plead guilty once he's assured the death penalty is off the table. Fingers crossed.

 

[Betty P]

CC, Not sure if I missed an answer to this... What does Specific Performance actually mean? Does it mean he wants the DP offer in writing?

Most likely. When that motion was filed, we assumed it meant his lawyers want the agreement specific to Billy in writing.

 

[almond]

Most likely. When that motion was filed, we assumed it meant his lawyers want the agreement specific to Billy in writing.

I thought that too, Betty, but legal terms go over my head sometimes. Thank you.

 

[almond]

I'm a little obsessed with Angie these past few days. The only sign of movement from her were the two calls that she made in April. I'd love to know who she called, when she has no phone privileges. and her reaction to Jake's change of plea. Surely her atty's keep her up to date on the rest of her family's hearings, etc. It just strikes me as odd, the silence from her corner...
Am I the only one obsessed?

 

[Covert Operative]

I'm a little obsessed with Angie these past few days. The only sign of movement from her were the two calls that she made in April. I'd love to know who she called, when she has no phone privileges. and her reaction to Jake's change of plea. Surely her atty's keep her up to date on the rest of her family's hearings, etc. It just strikes me as odd, the silence from her corner...
Am I the only one obsessed?

She did file to get her phone privileges back June 14th but there has been no date put on the calendar for that. Maybe once her lawyers got the discovery after June 14th showing she may have broken her rules they decided not to pursue it.

 

[almond]

She did file to get her phone privileges back June 14th but there has been no date put on the calendar for that. Maybe once her lawyers got the discovery after June 14th showing she may have broken her rules they decided not to pursue it.

Good call. Hoping to hear what was in those monitored calls... Did she think she was going to walk, before her son pled guilty? Did she call her mother? Fred? Her brother? Ugh. Is she getting along with other inmates? Is she sickly? Is she considered an abused woman? Did she have the kids that night? All questions that we've gone over on here but still no answers.