GUILTY OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #68

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  • #381
G4 - I assume this is the Daubert shoeprint hearing.

03/22/2022 Judge: DEERING, RANDY D Event: MOTION HEARING Date: 04/05/2022 Time: 09:00 AM
 
  • #382
  • #383
Thank you for posting this. It looks to me at the time of 1:37 of the video that BW has 2 bruises on his face.

Yes I agree, looks like something that would not normally be there.
A little bit earlier in the video you can see BW talking to someone and his back is towards the camera.
 
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  • #384
<modsnip>suggesting something as trivial as county lines to support dismissing an indictment or charge is extremely disrespectful and only serves to dilute the horror of this crime. its exactly what the defense lawyers want. if they can create a chewbacca wookie syndrome its a way to acquit monsters who we know for sure killed without conscience. juries have been increasingly distracted by procedural issues or police conspiracy theories. this isnt a movie, 4 people massacred a family for no reason at all and now your suggesting charges should be dropped due to jurisdiction? its one of the most tone def comments ive heard in my life. if the defense attorneys can get us debating on if chewbacca is a wookie, well need to let g4 go. if the glove doesnt fit you must aquit. this investigaton spanned 10 states and shook those who worked it to the core. murder police are those who keep the wolves from the door while lawyers would rather invite them in. its so obvious that all they can do is attack the investigation because they know the clients are guilty. these motions serve to desensitize and distract for the heinous killings the wagner crime family are responsible for. its everyone's duty to make sure that doesnt happen.

They are not suggesting charges be dropped for jurisdiction, that was only someone's opinion.

What they are suggesting be dropped due to jurisdiction is the recorded conversations.

The recording device was put in the truck George and Jake drove and because they drove it all over to different states the defense says BCI didn't have the jurisdiction to listen to all those conversations.
 
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  • #385
They are not suggesting charges be dropped for jurisdiction, that was only someone's opinion.

What they are suggesting be dropped due to jurisdiction is the recorded conversations.

The recording device was put in the truck George and Jake drove and because they drove it all over to different states the defense says BCI didn't have the jurisdiction to listen to all those conversations.

The opinion on them asking for charges to be dropped due to jurisdiction from their motion has nothing to do with the things from scribd. It is opinion that is from other information. Two different things.
03/15/2022 MOTION NO. 85 DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO DISMISS FILED Attorney: PARKER, JOHN PATRICK
 
  • #386
G4 - I assume this is the Daubert shoeprint hearing.

03/22/2022 Judge: DEERING, RANDY D Event: MOTION HEARING Date: 04/05/2022 Time: 09:00 AM

It is. At the Hearing Canepa said both the 4th and 5th were set aside for it.
 
  • #387
  • #388
The opinion on them asking for charges to be dropped due to jurisdiction from their motion has nothing to do with the things from scribd. It is opinion that is from other information. Two different things.
03/15/2022 MOTION NO. 85 DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO DISMISS FILED Attorney: PARKER, JOHN PATRICK

It is just someone's opinion that the defense wants to dismiss the indictments due to jurisdiction and doesn't matter where the opinion comes from.

We do not know what the Motion to dismiss is all about. Could be about any number of things.

Could be to dismiss the Case, could be to dismiss the death penalty specifications, could be to dismiss a Motion, could be to dismiss evidence etc...
 
  • #389
It is just someone's opinion that the defense wants to dismiss the indictments due to jurisdiction and doesn't matter where the opinion comes from.

We do not know what the Motion to dismiss is all about. Could be about any number of things.

Could be to dismiss the Case, could be to dismiss the death penalty specifications, could be to dismiss a Motion, could be to dismiss evidence etc...

That opinion had nothing to do with the information from scribd and was not related to the truck/audio motion.
 
  • #390
In a jury trial, a Chewbacca defense is a legal strategy in which a criminal defense lawyer tries to confuse the jury rather than refute the case of the prosecutor. It is an intentional distraction or obfuscation.

As a Chewbacca defense distracts and misleads, it is an example of a red herring. It is also an example of an irrelevant conclusion, a type of informal fallacy in which one making an argument fails to address the issue in question.[1][2] Often an opposing counsel can legally object to such arguments by declaring them irrelevant, character evidence, or argumentative.

In the Simpson murder trial, the real Johnnie Cochran tried to convince jurors that a glove found at the crime scene, alleged to have been left by the killer, could not be Simpson's because it did not fit Simpson's hand. Because the prosecution relied on the glove as evidence of Simpson's presence at the scene, Cochran argued that the lack of fit proved Simpson's innocence: "It makes no sense; it doesn't fit; if it doesn't fit, you must acquit." "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit" was a refrain that Cochran also used in response to other points of the case.

The Associated Press obituary for Cochran mentioned the Chewbacca defense parody as one of the ways in which the attorney had entered pop culture.[6]

Criminologist Thomas O'Connor says that when DNA evidence shows "inclusion", that is, does not exonerate a client by exclusion from the DNA sample provided, "About the only thing you can do is attack the lab for its (lack of) quality assurance and proficiency testing, or use a 'Chewbacca defense' … and try to razzle-dazzle the jury about how complex and complicated the other side's evidence or probability estimates are."[7] Forensic scientist Erin Kenneally has argued that court challenges to digital evidence frequently use the Chewbacca defense by presenting multiple alternative explanations of forensic evidence obtained from computers and Internet providers to confuse the jury into reasonable doubt.

Chewbacca defense - Wikipedia
 
  • #391
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  • #393
Something on that side of the face, but he also had something on that side of the face in a hearing that was kind of big. I'm gonna go with those are bruises in the video. ha
His eye looks blacked and cut down, JMO
 
  • #394
In a jury trial, a Chewbacca defense is a legal strategy in which a criminal defense lawyer tries to confuse the jury rather than refute the case of the prosecutor. It is an intentional distraction or obfuscation.

As a Chewbacca defense distracts and misleads, it is an example of a red herring. It is also an example of an irrelevant conclusion, a type of informal fallacy in which one making an argument fails to address the issue in question.[1][2] Often an opposing counsel can legally object to such arguments by declaring them irrelevant, character evidence, or argumentative.

In the Simpson murder trial, the real Johnnie Cochran tried to convince jurors that a glove found at the crime scene, alleged to have been left by the killer, could not be Simpson's because it did not fit Simpson's hand. Because the prosecution relied on the glove as evidence of Simpson's presence at the scene, Cochran argued that the lack of fit proved Simpson's innocence: "It makes no sense; it doesn't fit; if it doesn't fit, you must acquit." "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit" was a refrain that Cochran also used in response to other points of the case.

The Associated Press obituary for Cochran mentioned the Chewbacca defense parody as one of the ways in which the attorney had entered pop culture.[6]

Criminologist Thomas O'Connor says that when DNA evidence shows "inclusion", that is, does not exonerate a client by exclusion from the DNA sample provided, "About the only thing you can do is attack the lab for its (lack of) quality assurance and proficiency testing, or use a 'Chewbacca defense' … and try to razzle-dazzle the jury about how complex and complicated the other side's evidence or probability estimates are."[7] Forensic scientist Erin Kenneally has argued that court challenges to digital evidence frequently use the Chewbacca defense by presenting multiple alternative explanations of forensic evidence obtained from computers and Internet providers to confuse the jury into reasonable doubt.

Chewbacca defense - Wikipedia

This is very interesting, never heard of it thanks.
From what I glean from the Motions it seems a bit of these things could be going on - intentional distraction or obfuscation.

From Motions posted:

Defendant also claims that the "provocative acts" that the State engaged in during the time the Defendant's conversations were being intercepted was tantamount to an interrogation of the Defendant and his brother, for which he had a right to counsel, and for which the State should have provided him with his Miranda rights.

The State strongly disagrees. A defendant's right to counsel, right to remain silent, right to have Miranda rights provided to them, arise in an "in-custody" interrogation setting...........There is nothing about driving a truck with his brother, per the Defendant's own description, outside of Ohio "90% of the time", that resembles being in custody, and the " provocative acts" as noted, are required by the statutes that guide Interception Warrants, and certainly do not equate to "interrogations".

There was no coercion exerted over the Defendant and/or his brother, Jake Wagner, while they were being monitored in the truck.

Defense trying to say only one shoe print was found because the expert didn't just rely on size.

Defendant's reference to the field on forensic footwear as " pseudo-science" is baseless.

Defendant states, Bodziak looked at more than just the "size" of the outsoles. Rather, Bodziak compared the design, dimension and texture pattern of each shoe to determine whether they originated from the same mold. The differential between a half size in the Athletics Work shoe depended on the texture pattern of small portions of the size 11W and 10.5 W shoes, which was ascertained by Bodziak by looking at the hand-struck still led texture on each shoe. (Bodziack report p. 3).

Other Acts

Mr. Wagner argues that most of the claimed "other acts" were committed by someone other than him, as such are not relevant to him.

Mr. Wagner argues all of the thirty-four prior acts must be excluded as being irrelevant. The acts lack any tendency to make the existence of any fact of consequence to the determination of the action more probable or less probable than it would be without the evidence.

Using the excuse that Hanna's body wasn't hidden.

Edward Jacob Wagner's threats to Hanna Rhoden, including, but not limited to, threatening to kill her and put her body where it would never be found.

This act of Jake Wagner is not relevant in George's trial, assuming it is relevant it's value is out weighed by it's prejudicial effect. The evidence is also irrelevant because the prosecution does not claim Hanna Rhoden's body was concealed.

Using the excuse that according to Jake and Angela, Hanna spied on Tabitha.

Defendant and co-Defendants spying on Tabitha through surreptitious means, including including but not limited to surreptitiously accessing Tabitha's and her mother's social media accounts, and having others "spy" on her and report back to them.

This act is not relevant to George, assuming it is relevant it's value is outweighed by the prejudicial effect. This prior act may show identity, but with the plea and testimony of Jake and Angela, "identity" is not an issue at trial. According to the proffers Hannah committed this act.
 
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  • #395
  • #396
This is very interesting, never heard of it thanks.
From what I glean from the Motions it seems a bit of these things could be going on - intentional distraction or obfuscation.

From Motions posted:

Defendant also claims that the "provocative acts" that the State engaged in during the time the Defendant's conversations were being intercepted was tantamount to an interrogation of the Defendant and his brother, for which he had a right to counsel, and for which the State should have provided him with his Miranda rights.

The State strongly disagrees. A defendant's right to counsel, right to remain silent, right to have Miranda rights provided to them, arise in an "in-custody" interrogation setting...........There is nothing about driving a truck with his brother, per the Defendant's own description, outside of Ohio "90% of the time", that resembles being in custody, and the " provocative acts" as noted, are required by the statutes that guide Interception Warrants, and certainly do not equate to "interrogations".

There was no coercion exerted over the Defendant and/or his brother, Jake Wagner, while they were being monitored in the truck.

Defense trying to say only one shoe print was found because the expert didn't just rely on size.

Defendant's reference to the field on forensic footwear as " pseudo-science" is baseless.

Defendant states, Bodziak looked at more than just the "size" of the outsoles. Rather, Bodziak compared the design, dimension and texture pattern of each shoe to determine whether they originated from the same mold. The differential between a half size in the Athletics Work shoe depended on the texture pattern of small portions of the size 11W and 10.5 W shoes, which was ascertained by Bodziak by looking at the hand-struck still led texture on each shoe. (Bodziack report p. 3).

Other Acts

Mr. Wagner argues that most of the claimed "other acts" were committed by someone other than him, as such are not relevant to him.

Mr. Wagner argues all of the thirty-four prior acts must be excluded as being irrelevant. The acts lack any tendency to make the existence of any fact of consequence to the determination of the action more probable or less probable than it would be without the evidence.

Using the excuse that Hanna's body wasn't hidden.

Edward Jacob Wagner's threats to Hanna Rhoden, including, but not limited to, threatening to kill her and put her body where it would never be found.

This act of Jake Wagner is not relevant in George's trial, assuming it is relevant it's value is out weighed by it's prejudicial effect. The evidence is also irrelevant because the prosecution does not claim Hanna Rhoden's body was concealed.

Using the excuse that according to Jake and Angela, Hanna spied on Tabitha.

Defendant and co-Defendants spying on Tabitha through surreptitious means, including including but not limited to surreptitiously accessing Tabitha's and her mother's social media accounts, and having others "spy" on her and report back to them.

This act is not relevant to George, assuming it is relevant it's value is outweighed by the prejudicial effect. This prior act may show identity, but with the plea and testimony of Jake and Angela, "identity" is not an issue at trial. According to the proffers Hannah committed this act.
Nobody was charged with a crime at the time of the interviews, it was only said that the Wagners was a laser focused! The Wagners in my book would be by law )On The Run) from a mas-murders so how does the other criminals get charged when they travel through other states, (Remember The Wagners where never Arrest Until They Came Back To Ohio) and we don’t know if the BCI didn’t get help from the local Police and Judge, JMO
 
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  • #397
His eye looks blacked and cut down, JMO

Maybe like the butt of a gun hit him or a fist. Would be the side of his face for a good right hook from someone facing him. Maybe that SKS got jerked out of one of their hands by a victim and it went up side his head.

Would be kind of dumb to go to the funeral like that but I am sure he had some good excuse, like a horse had kicked him in the face.
 
  • #398
Around 1:37 on the video it shows G3, G4 and JW walking into GR funeral. I have reason to believe that JW was at HR's funeral. opinion
As investigation continues, funeral services planned for 8 killed in Pike County slayings - YouTube

276143112_5100665446651447_3779798098236572675_n.jpg


@Berrybell It looks like one, definitely something that looks like it would not be there normally. You would think he would have at least used some makeup to cover it if so. I guess they were to eager to get to the funeral to hear what was being said and they wanted to see how GR looked compared to when they last know how he looked. ugh

I believe GR funeral was first, so bruises would still be there and at that time would have even been faded somewhat probably, must have been some pretty deep ones to show up that well, still. Would be about a week out after the murders.
MOO! I feel like CRsr put up a fight with him being shot 9 times so it is reasonable to see bruising on the killers. I cannot imagine going to the funerals and watching the family cry and their hearts breaking.
 
  • #399
i cant take credit for finding this but i wanted to make sure everyone sees it. this is how evil the wagner crime family is. footage of garys funeral on local media picks up g3 g4 and jw walking into the funeral. billys face is badly bruised jake and g4 have their murder kit hair dyed jet black. these ppl are beyond sick. g4 doesnt deserve any consideration except which execution method he wants. unreal.

screen grab is from 1:37 in the link
 

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  • #400
Just spitballing and in no way supporting these disgusting people, but maybe the three W4 guys went to the funerals just to put up a front--i.e., they were supposed to be such good friends with the R family, it would seem out of place if they didn't go to their funerals <insert a really disgusted eye roll here>. Maybe they thought it would deflect people's and LE's suspicion away from them if they went to the funerals. Just a thought.

It took a hell of a lot of audacity to walk into those funerals. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: (one emoji for each of the lost)
 
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