OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #73

[Betty P]

IMO-it was his natural hair color during the murders and he colored it after the murder becauses if LE found camera evidence and could tell hair color of the suspect(s), LE wouldn't think of him right away because his hair color would be different. They would have to dig deep (and very likely would), to figure out when he colored it. IMO-that was his way of thinking anyway.

If LE had looked at the brothers' Facebook pages before they were interviewed, they would have realized their hair was dyed. Might have saved a year. It wouldn't be proof of anything other than the Wagners were trying to cover up their identity, but it's enough to shift focus to them LE can't do it with every perp they interview, but on big cases like this, its something to consider - check social media before interviewing.

 

[Betty P]

I am trying to get caught up via the trial videos, on day 7, and man.....the damage that was done to the arm of Chris Sr and even the internal decapitation that had occurred - absolutely horrific. Glad they are not showing these pictures on the stream. When all of this is done, the remaining trials, etc, I bet people will be rushing to do FOIA requests to get everything that was shown during the trial

The injuries to Dana were pretty bad, too. 5 shots in the face/head. I noticed when the BCI officer at Dana's was giving his testimony, when they put up the slide of Dana's face/head, he immediately turned and gave GW4 an angry. disgusted look.

If George ever gets out of jail (and I doubt he will), he'd better make sure to never run into that BCI agent.

 

[TheRevWells]

The injuries to Dana were pretty bad, too. 5 shots in the face/head. I noticed when the BCI officer at Dana's was giving his testimony, when they put up the slide of Dana's face/head, he immediately turned and gave GW4 an angry. disgusted look.

If George ever gets out of jail (and I doubt he will), he'd better make sure to never run into that BCI agent.

the whole thing is absolutely heartbreaking. regardless of if GW4 never shot anyone, even though I personally think he did, he will get a lengthy prison term due to conspiracy, planning, covering it all up etc. from the brutality of the injuries, it sounds like they were not able to have an open casket funeral but I am not sure on that.

Aside from the photos of the bodies, I do want to see more of the inside of the scenes, the aftermath etc. a few photos have been shown but maybe they will seal the photos of the bodies and autopsy pictures and allow everything else to be released etc

 

[molly1255]

I remember that interview. But, I didn't know that AW corrected his statement. What did was she picked up; who was telling the truth about it?

I really have no clue as to which one was telling the truth, but if I had to guess, my guess would be that Jake screwed up and told the truth. JMO

 

[Betty P]

the whole thing is absolutely heartbreaking. regardless of if GW4 never shot anyone, even though I personally think he did, he will get a lengthy prison term due to conspiracy, planning, covering it all up etc. from the brutality of the injuries, it sounds like they were not able to have an open casket funeral but I am not sure on that.

Aside from the photos of the bodies, I do want to see more of the inside of the scenes, the aftermath etc. a few photos have been shown but maybe they will seal the photos of the bodies and autopsy pictures and allow everything else to be released etc

JMO, they may release some photos, but Gov. DeWine (who was AG at the time) will probably try to keep the graphic photos out of the public domain. He went to great lengths to keep the final autopsy reports sealed, though they have finally released those. He seems to be concerned about protecting the victims' families. He'll probably defer to them. It would be very sad to think those surviving kids might see those photos some day.

 

[sunshineray]

Can't wait to see GW4 questioned about his tattoo. moo

Was just thinking...we might get to watch GWIV's reactions when the tattoo artist who did his tat is questioned. I've never had a tattoo done. I would think it's a personal moment between client and artist, comparable to a person and their hair stylist. Probably lots of chit chat, maybe even a telling slip of the tongue here and there?

 

[IType]

IMO-it was his natural hair color during the murders and he colored it after the murder becauses if LE found camera evidence and could tell hair color of the suspect(s), LE wouldn't think of him right away because his hair color would be different. They would have to dig deep (and very likely would), to figure out when he colored it. IMO-that was his way of thinking anyway.

I believe AC said in opening statements that George and Jake dyed their hair very dark the week of the murders and George was a Norman Reedus fan (dark hair), who is in Boondock Saints. (However, I have seen in MSM articles and/or tweets that it was Jake who was a Norman Reedus fan, so not exactly sure which one of the brothers is correct in that aspect). IMO they dyed their hair right before the murders to look like the Boondock Saints when they committed the murders.

JMO

 

[IType]

I really have no clue as to which one was telling the truth, but if I had to guess, my guess would be that Jake screwed up and told the truth. JMO

I agree, JW told the truth and AW corrected it to cover their tracks. JMO

 

[sunshineray]

I remember that interview. But, I didn't know that AW corrected his statement. What did was she picked up; who was telling the truth about it?

The SW pick up info JW gave in that Chris Grave's article stayed "valud" for a bit, IIRC? Then when the W's were singled out by LE in the media, AW and JW wrote a joint Facebook Messenger "letter" where she said no SW was with us a week. JW didn't just pick her up that night.

Am I remembering wrong and mistaking in the chronology of this?

 

[Myland]

Jmo I don’t understand the time line. From 772 at 2:00am to left fork at 2:29am? Is that correct? Then vehicle seen driving from Kr at 3:10am then turned onto onto Union hill at 3:19am?

Jmo if this is the time line it doesn’t add up for me. 772 to left fork isn’t 29 min. Jmo

 

[molly1255]

The SW pick up info JW gave in that Chris Grave's article stayed "valud" for a bit, IIRC? Then when the W's were singled out by LE in the media, AW and JW wrote a joint Facebook Messenger "letter" where she said no SW was with us a week. JW didn't just pick her up that night.

Am I remembering wrong and mistaking in the chronology of this?

I can't recall when AW "corrected the pick up date. You could be correct on that.

 

[24Roses]

I believe AC said in opening statements that George and Jake dyed their hair very dark the week of the murders and George was a Norman Reedus fan (dark hair), who is in Boondock Saints. (However, I have seen in MSM articles and/or tweets that it was Jake who was a Norman Reedus fan, so not exactly sure which one of the brothers is correct in that aspect). IMO they dyed their hair right before the murders to look like the Boondock Saints when they committed the murders.

JMO

Yes, I remember AC saying that now that you posted that info. ETA-I just can't remember if she said it was before or after the murders. She said so much in her opening statement that I can't remember half of it. Thanks!

 

[teresa1589]

for Wed. 9/28:

Evan Millward
@EvanMillward
·
6m
PIKE COUNTY TRIAL: Now on the stand - BCI special agent Ryan Scheiderer - he led this investigation for the agency. Started at BCI in March 2012.

View attachment 369631

Scheiderer was working in his yard the morning of 4/22/2016 - left his house at 9:30a and got to Piketon PD briefing area around 11:30a
"This was a very chaotic day, this was a big incident ... it's a lot even for BCI."

Scheiderer was told to respond to 4077 Union Hill Road- crime scene 1 - this was Chris Rhoden Sr's property - the first one discovered.
He remembers it taking a while to get there - and then having to wait in the road outside until warrant came back.

Scheiderer then left scene to go to Sheriff's Office to interview family members - James and Bobby Jo Manley, Billy Morgan, Luke Rhoden.

Scheiderer says the Pike Co. Sheriff's Office asked for BCI to handle the case.
It assigned two majors to BCI's investigative team - to help get uniformed deputies if needed etc.

Scheiderer says eventually they had to regroup together back at Piketon PD. Tips and info is coming in "so fast, it overwhelms you."
He says "We knew we were gonna be in for the long haul on this."

Scheiderer says he immediately went to track down a Jones family, which people had told them had a fight with Chris Jr. about 10 days before murders. Isaiah and Larry Jones claimed to take credit for murders.
BCI ultimately cleared them.

BCI set up a tip system to track and monitor volume of tips. They would get tip, assign to agent, agent would go track it down and report back.

Scheiderer became lead agent on this case in March or April 2017.
He has authored 165-167 reports out of about 835 for this case. That excludes lab reports.

Scheiderer describes doing "victimology" first - trying to get a sense of who these 8 people were. Also had to go to companies like Facebook to preserve records.
Cell tower data dumps challenging because everyone out there is on the same towers.

Scheiderer notes that Facebook messenger was often used in the area instead of texts because of spotty service.
We know one Hanna May Rhoden FB message will play big later.

Scheiderer calls this a "whodunnit murder."

Scheiderer says BCI rushed DNA results, but none of that was useful. Most was DNA of victims - or saturated, which means there's too much to get a match.

Scheiderer says they also did "old school police work" of door knocking and asking for security video.
Problems because Union Hill Rd was closed and people left - because of fear and for convenience since they couldn't get in or out.

Scheiderer says they looked into all tips - including from psychics, inmates, out-of-state, even had something connected to the death of Prince

Scheiderer says Facebook doesn't make it easy to go through its data, "in fact, they're not very cooperative."

A few things about the scenes jumped out to him: the roads were secluded, no sign of forced entry, missing cameras/DVR.
At Chris Sr's, the victims were drug, but not at others.
At Dana's, no one got out of bed.
Seemed like people who did this knew them

Scheiderer notes the marijuana grow ops - says they quickly ruled this out as motive because the plants would have been stolen.
Said they kept it in mind though - explore all options.

Scheiderer now says Dana's home (Scene 3) is in fact in Scioto County. At the time, all belief was that it was in Pike Co. In fact, a sign nearby says "Welcome to Pike Co."
Also says BCI got list of people who knew they had just moved in there.

Scheiderer says BCI also got video that shows Dana stopping at a mart on her way home from her double shift late that night.
Also has security footage of Frankie going to a store for milk that night.

Scheiderer showing a map now - the red locations are crime scenes, the purple locations are where they got video (residences). The jury visited these locations - at the time, we in media pool were unclear why we stopped there.

View attachment 369632

The yellow location is where a homeowner said they had a camera up. he was out of town - got back one week after murders and discovered the camera was missing.

Back from break - Scheiderer shows some rough video taken from a home at Union Hill Road and SR 772 - timestamp is delayed - actually around 1:36 a.m.
Vehicle away from 772 (toward crime scenes).
Other photo is this property from jury view

View attachment 369633

Another clip - from around 241AM (again, timestamp is off) - two vehicles traveling simultaneously away from crime scenes and toward Union Hill Rd intersection with SR 772

[The screen is blank - so no picture]

Another angle - same time (2:41AM) - shows the two vehicles turn left on SR-772

View attachment 369634 View attachment 369635

Then at 319AM (corrected time) you see two vehicles come back from that direction and turn right from 772 onto Union Hill Rd

View attachment 369636

New location now - camera picks up a single vehicle driving toward Kenneth's property - and driving away again at 310AM (that's the screenshot below)

View attachment 369637

Jake Wagner was interviewed at the Sheriff's Office on May 13, 2016 - he did not provide his phone.
Scheiderer says he learned this is not Jake's natural hair color.

View attachment 369638

Leonard Manley (Dana's dad) had same Walmart shoes in size 10. Scheiderer says he had thrown them away, they pulled them, and tested to clear him.
Leonard definitely told reporters about this back then - he felt like he was being considered a suspect.

On cross-examination with John Parker, Scheiderer says Leonard Manley bought the Walmart shoes in February 2016.
Suzanne Elliott previously testified they got them out of the trash 27 days after the murders (in May).

Scheiderer says BCI has collected/generated 4 terabytes of evidence in this case.

Parker focuses in on the Scioto County issue with Scene 3 - Dana's house.

Scheiderer says he learned it was in Scioto Co. after the indictments & arrests - but doesn't know how long after. He did not document it.

Things get chippy asking Scheiderer about venue.

Parker asks him if he's aware the Ohio Constitution requires a trial take place in county where crime was committed.

Canepa comes back saying this has been argued already.

Adjourn for the day.

Evan Millward
@EvanMillward
·
5h
PIKE COUNTY TRIAL - #BREAKING: Court will not be in session tomorrow (Thursday 9/29) because of an illness. @WCPO

link: https://twitter.com/evanmillwar

for Wed. 9/28:

Evan Millward
@EvanMillward
·
6m
PIKE COUNTY TRIAL: Now on the stand - BCI special agent Ryan Scheiderer - he led this investigation for the agency. Started at BCI in March 2012.

View attachment 369631

Scheiderer was working in his yard the morning of 4/22/2016 - left his house at 9:30a and got to Piketon PD briefing area around 11:30a
"This was a very chaotic day, this was a big incident ... it's a lot even for BCI."

Scheiderer was told to respond to 4077 Union Hill Road- crime scene 1 - this was Chris Rhoden Sr's property - the first one discovered.
He remembers it taking a while to get there - and then having to wait in the road outside until warrant came back.

Scheiderer then left scene to go to Sheriff's Office to interview family members - James and Bobby Jo Manley, Billy Morgan, Luke Rhoden.

Scheiderer says the Pike Co. Sheriff's Office asked for BCI to handle the case.
It assigned two majors to BCI's investigative team - to help get uniformed deputies if needed etc.

Scheiderer says eventually they had to regroup together back at Piketon PD. Tips and info is coming in "so fast, it overwhelms you."
He says "We knew we were gonna be in for the long haul on this."

Scheiderer says he immediately went to track down a Jones family, which people had told them had a fight with Chris Jr. about 10 days before murders. Isaiah and Larry Jones claimed to take credit for murders.
BCI ultimately cleared them.

BCI set up a tip system to track and monitor volume of tips. They would get tip, assign to agent, agent would go track it down and report back.

Scheiderer became lead agent on this case in March or April 2017.
He has authored 165-167 reports out of about 835 for this case. That excludes lab reports.

Scheiderer describes doing "victimology" first - trying to get a sense of who these 8 people were. Also had to go to companies like Facebook to preserve records.
Cell tower data dumps challenging because everyone out there is on the same towers.

Scheiderer notes that Facebook messenger was often used in the area instead of texts because of spotty service.
We know one Hanna May Rhoden FB message will play big later.

Scheiderer calls this a "whodunnit murder."

Scheiderer says BCI rushed DNA results, but none of that was useful. Most was DNA of victims - or saturated, which means there's too much to get a match.

Scheiderer says they also did "old school police work" of door knocking and asking for security video.
Problems because Union Hill Rd was closed and people left - because of fear and for convenience since they couldn't get in or out.

Scheiderer says they looked into all tips - including from psychics, inmates, out-of-state, even had something connected to the death of Prince

Scheiderer says Facebook doesn't make it easy to go through its data, "in fact, they're not very cooperative."

A few things about the scenes jumped out to him: the roads were secluded, no sign of forced entry, missing cameras/DVR.
At Chris Sr's, the victims were drug, but not at others.
At Dana's, no one got out of bed.
Seemed like people who did this knew them

Scheiderer notes the marijuana grow ops - says they quickly ruled this out as motive because the plants would have been stolen.
Said they kept it in mind though - explore all options.

Scheiderer now says Dana's home (Scene 3) is in fact in Scioto County. At the time, all belief was that it was in Pike Co. In fact, a sign nearby says "Welcome to Pike Co."
Also says BCI got list of people who knew they had just moved in there.

Scheiderer says BCI also got video that shows Dana stopping at a mart on her way home from her double shift late that night.
Also has security footage of Frankie going to a store for milk that night.

Scheiderer showing a map now - the red locations are crime scenes, the purple locations are where they got video (residences). The jury visited these locations - at the time, we in media pool were unclear why we stopped there.

View attachment 369632

The yellow location is where a homeowner said they had a camera up. he was out of town - got back one week after murders and discovered the camera was missing.

Back from break - Scheiderer shows some rough video taken from a home at Union Hill Road and SR 772 - timestamp is delayed - actually around 1:36 a.m.
Vehicle away from 772 (toward crime scenes).
Other photo is this property from jury view

View attachment 369633

Another clip - from around 241AM (again, timestamp is off) - two vehicles traveling simultaneously away from crime scenes and toward Union Hill Rd intersection with SR 772

[The screen is blank - so no picture]

Another angle - same time (2:41AM) - shows the two vehicles turn left on SR-772

View attachment 369634 View attachment 369635

Then at 319AM (corrected time) you see two vehicles come back from that direction and turn right from 772 onto Union Hill Rd

View attachment 369636

New location now - camera picks up a single vehicle driving toward Kenneth's property - and driving away again at 310AM (that's the screenshot below)

View attachment 369637

Jake Wagner was interviewed at the Sheriff's Office on May 13, 2016 - he did not provide his phone.
Scheiderer says he learned this is not Jake's natural hair color.

View attachment 369638

Leonard Manley (Dana's dad) had same Walmart shoes in size 10. Scheiderer says he had thrown them away, they pulled them, and tested to clear him.
Leonard definitely told reporters about this back then - he felt like he was being considered a suspect.

On cross-examination with John Parker, Scheiderer says Leonard Manley bought the Walmart shoes in February 2016.
Suzanne Elliott previously testified they got them out of the trash 27 days after the murders (in May).

Scheiderer says BCI has collected/generated 4 terabytes of evidence in this case.

Parker focuses in on the Scioto County issue with Scene 3 - Dana's house.

Scheiderer says he learned it was in Scioto Co. after the indictments & arrests - but doesn't know how long after. He did not document it.

Things get chippy asking Scheiderer about venue.

Parker asks him if he's aware the Ohio Constitution requires a trial take place in county where crime was committed.

Canepa comes back saying this has been argued already.

Adjourn for the day.

Evan Millward
@EvanMillward
·
5h
PIKE COUNTY TRIAL - #BREAKING: Court

for Wed. 9/28:

Evan Millward
@EvanMillward
·
6m
PIKE COUNTY TRIAL: Now on the stand - BCI special agent Ryan Scheiderer - he led this investigation for the agency. Started at BCI in March 2012.

View attachment 369631

Scheiderer was working in his yard the morning of 4/22/2016 - left his house at 9:30a and got to Piketon PD briefing area around 11:30a
"This was a very chaotic day, this was a big incident ... it's a lot even for BCI."

Scheiderer was told to respond to 4077 Union Hill Road- crime scene 1 - this was Chris Rhoden Sr's property - the first one discovered.
He remembers it taking a while to get there - and then having to wait in the road outside until warrant came back.

Scheiderer then left scene to go to Sheriff's Office to interview family members - James and Bobby Jo Manley, Billy Morgan, Luke Rhoden.

Scheiderer says the Pike Co. Sheriff's Office asked for BCI to handle the case.
It assigned two majors to BCI's investigative team - to help get uniformed deputies if needed etc.

Scheiderer says eventually they had to regroup together back at Piketon PD. Tips and info is coming in "so fast, it overwhelms you."
He says "We knew we were gonna be in for the long haul on this."

Scheiderer says he immediately went to track down a Jones family, which people had told them had a fight with Chris Jr. about 10 days before murders. Isaiah and Larry Jones claimed to take credit for murders.
BCI ultimately cleared them.

BCI set up a tip system to track and monitor volume of tips. They would get tip, assign to agent, agent would go track it down and report back.

Scheiderer became lead agent on this case in March or April 2017.
He has authored 165-167 reports out of about 835 for this case. That excludes lab reports.

Scheiderer describes doing "victimology" first - trying to get a sense of who these 8 people were. Also had to go to companies like Facebook to preserve records.
Cell tower data dumps challenging because everyone out there is on the same towers.

Scheiderer notes that Facebook messenger was often used in the area instead of texts because of spotty service.
We know one Hanna May Rhoden FB message will play big later.

Scheiderer calls this a "whodunnit murder."

Scheiderer says BCI rushed DNA results, but none of that was useful. Most was DNA of victims - or saturated, which means there's too much to get a match.

Scheiderer says they also did "old school police work" of door knocking and asking for security video.
Problems because Union Hill Rd was closed and people left - because of fear and for convenience since they couldn't get in or out.

Scheiderer says they looked into all tips - including from psychics, inmates, out-of-state, even had something connected to the death of Prince

Scheiderer says Facebook doesn't make it easy to go through its data, "in fact, they're not very cooperative."

A few things about the scenes jumped out to him: the roads were secluded, no sign of forced entry, missing cameras/DVR.
At Chris Sr's, the victims were drug, but not at others.
At Dana's, no one got out of bed.
Seemed like people who did this knew them

Scheiderer notes the marijuana grow ops - says they quickly ruled this out as motive because the plants would have been stolen.
Said they kept it in mind though - explore all options.

Scheiderer now says Dana's home (Scene 3) is in fact in Scioto County. At the time, all belief was that it was in Pike Co. In fact, a sign nearby says "Welcome to Pike Co."
Also says BCI got list of people who knew they had just moved in there.

Scheiderer says BCI also got video that shows Dana stopping at a mart on her way home from her double shift late that night.
Also has security footage of Frankie going to a store for milk that night.

Scheiderer showing a map now - the red locations are crime scenes, the purple locations are where they got video (residences). The jury visited these locations - at the time, we in media pool were unclear why we stopped there.

View attachment 369632

The yellow location is where a homeowner said they had a camera up. he was out of town - got back one week after murders and discovered the camera was missing.

Back from break - Scheiderer shows some rough video taken from a home at Union Hill Road and SR 772 - timestamp is delayed - actually around 1:36 a.m.
Vehicle away from 772 (toward crime scenes).
Other photo is this property from jury view

View attachment 369633

Another clip - from around 241AM (again, timestamp is off) - two vehicles traveling simultaneously away from crime scenes and toward Union Hill Rd intersection with SR 772

[The screen is blank - so no picture]

Another angle - same time (2:41AM) - shows the two vehicles turn left on SR-772

View attachment 369634 View attachment 369635

Then at 319AM (corrected time) you see two vehicles come back from that direction and turn right from 772 onto Union Hill Rd

View attachment 369636

New location now - camera picks up a single vehicle driving toward Kenneth's property - and driving away again at 310AM (that's the screenshot below)

View attachment 369637

Jake Wagner was interviewed at the Sheriff's Office on May 13, 2016 - he did not provide his phone.
Scheiderer says he learned this is not Jake's natural hair color.

View attachment 369638

Leonard Manley (Dana's dad) had same Walmart shoes in size 10. Scheiderer says he had thrown them away, they pulled them, and tested to clear him.
Leonard definitely told reporters about this back then - he felt like he was being considered a suspect.

On cross-examination with John Parker, Scheiderer says Leonard Manley bought the Walmart shoes in February 2016.
Suzanne Elliott previously testified they got them out of the trash 27 days after the murders (in May).

Scheiderer says BCI has collected/generated 4 terabytes of evidence in this case.

Parker focuses in on the Scioto County issue with Scene 3 - Dana's house.

Scheiderer says he learned it was in Scioto Co. after the indictments & arrests - but doesn't know how long after. He did not document it.

Things get chippy asking Scheiderer about venue.

Parker asks him if he's aware the Ohio Constitution requires a trial take place in county where crime was committed.

Canepa comes back saying this has been argued already.

Adjourn for the day.

Evan Millward
@EvanMillward
·
5h
PIKE COUNTY TRIAL - #BREAKING: Court will not be in session tomorrow (Thursday 9/29) because of an illness. @WCPO

link: https://twitter.com/evanmillward

Anyone wonder why they frequently turned left on 772 from Union Hill? I have my thoughts on it. Just wondering if anyone thinking the same, I.e. heading to the matriarch’s home?

 

[Cool Cats]

D

 

[Cool Cats]

D

 

[Cool Cats]

For those asking when George and Jake dyed their hair here is the article:

Canepa said George and Jake both dyed their hair darker the week prior to the homicides, and that they were inspired by a scene from the movie “Boondock Saints 2.” Jake, she said, wore his hair like the actor Norman Reedus, who appears in the Boondock Saints movies as well as the TV show “The Walking Dead.” Jake fancied himself like Reedus, Canepa told the jury.

Pike County murders: Movie’s use of gun …

• The film is about two brothers in Boston who who take on a deadly form of vigilante justice by murdering mobsters and other criminals. The killers in the movie use silencers on their guns, the same killing style that members of the Wagner family are accused of using to execute the Rhodens.

When Canepa mentioned the Boondock Saints movie in her closing argument She put it as 2 brothers going out at night killing people using silencers. The prosecution plans to use a clip from the movie.

Pike County murder trial: Prosecution details George Wagner IV’s alleged involvement

WAVERLY, Pike Co. — In Monday’s opening arguments in the murder trial of George Wagner IV, special prosecutor Angela Canepa started with an apology to the jury for the long process.

www.springfieldnewssun.com

Photos of both Jake and George with black hair.

 

[justtrish]

Was just thinking...we might get to watch GWIV's reactions when the tattoo artist who did his tat is questioned. I've never had a tattoo done. I would think it's a personal moment between client and artist, comparable to a person and their hair stylist. Probably lots of chit chat, maybe even a telling slip of the tongue here and there?

I have many tattoos and you are right! Usually the process starts with going in or emailing/calling and asking about prices and giving an idea of what you want. What size, colors, etc. If you have seen any clip art or have photos of similar tattoos you send those or bring them in and go over it with the tattoo artist. Often this involves you explaining why or what the significance is if there is any. Many get them to remember someone, honor someone, put an image to part of their story or history. I suppose some just like tattoos and like certain things like abstract or tribal or something and they just get tattooed without much meaning behind it. I still there there is some type of story. So I would think he did tell the tattoo artist a story and it very well could be a lie or it could have been some version of the truth. I hope we get to hear it!

 

[justtrish]

I really have no clue as to which one was telling the truth, but if I had to guess, my guess would be that Jake screwed up and told the truth. JMO

I've been thinking about this. So Hannah Mae had a baby just a few days before the murders. She would have been in the hospital and it makes sense that Jake would have Sophia while she was in the hospital having the baby. What also makes sense is she wanted Sophia to see her sister. That is a super exciting part of having a sibling for your older child is when they get to meet. So I could see Sophia coming back to Hannah's after she was home from the hospital. I bet Jake did have her a week before, then Hannah had the baby and came home and Sophia came back to Hannah's, but Jake picked her up because he knew what was about to happen. Then I could see Angela telling Jake just say you had her the entire time. He slips up and forgets and then tries to correct it.

 

[TheRevWells]

what I love hearing is the Judge telling the defense - overruled - when they object to the pictures being shown etc. the defense is grasping at straws and really have no plausible defense at all

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I believe him being questioned at trial will be wishful thinking. Id love to see it tho

Hypothetical dialog, moo, imo...

"Your honor, we're advising our client to keep his mouth shut."

More hypothetical dialogue: "He'd be a moron to testify."