OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #73

[RAISINISBACK]

My thoughts for the day, seems the only physical evidence state has that GW was at scenes is footwear impression, which defense will contest, they have no physical evidence BW was there, (so far as I have been able to gage-I haven't heard all testimony so I may have missed something)

they will have in later testimony the witnesses who will testify to the one for all and all for one aspect of the family, and they will have JW and AW proffers,

It is a good job they have those proffers as they have little to no physical evidence from 4 crime scenes,

I also think defenses argument that JW shot them all will be, either BW shot the outside bullet, the 6 through the outside wall and door and the one into CR, and JW went inside and shot GR and CR, or JW shot the outside bullets and went inside and shot the others, he then shot everybody else including KR, I am really interested to hear what gun killed KR as I haven't heard that testified to yet,

The defense can argue this theory as the only testimony they will have about who shot who will come via JW and possible AW who wasn't present, the theory that GW wasn't there also comes under the only JW and AW proffers put him there, shoe print evidence as I posted will be challenged,

Jake said Billy killed Kenny with the .40 while he sat in the car and George waited up the road at the turnoff to left Fork. Jake also said Billy killed GR and CR and he fired the shot into CR's arm. Remember killed 5 shot 6?

Angie's testimony is going to get thrown out as hearsay. All she can testify to is what happened up until the time they walked out of the house. Anything after that is hearsay that Jake told her.

Jake said they went to the barn and changed clothes. For all Angie knows George refused to go and slept in the barn in a nice soft pile of hay that night. So she cannot place him at the scenes of the murders.

I don't think Jake is going to be believable since they already caught him in one lie at the FR/HG scene. He said he crawled through the open window then opened the back door to let George and Billy in. But the investigator said it was highly unlikely anyone crawled through that open window without kicking over that chicken feed. In the picture it looked impossible for a grown man to crawl through a small window in the dark and miss a 33 gal trash can, a tub of chicken feed. a game, electric wires. That was a very small area, maybe big enough for one foot and in the dark too. The investigator said very little room and no grass, no dirty footprints from walking around out in the dirt either. Not on the carpet or on the AC unit. Only one blade of grass on that AC unit. Wind could have blown it there. Jake may have crawled out the window after he killed FR/HG but i think he got in with CR's keys he said he took out of his jeans pocket.

No footprint evidence at the back door either. Somehow i cannot see someone as big as george was then or Billy getting through that back door without stumbling over the treadmill or bicycle and the full trash bag and without leaving any dirt from outside there or even a shoe impression. Not enough room.

So far I have not seen one shred of physical or forensic evidence that George was even there at the scenes. I am really hoping that the reason they took the jurors to that one house and the church is because they have a clear picture of George in one of the trucks. I think that is the only thing that will get a conviction for George.

But on the bright side....they are building a very strong case against Jake and Billy.

JMO

 

[Ann99]

So,if KR phone was found by BCI, would they have been able to discover a phone call from CRsr phone to KR, or if not
a call, a text ? I guess just a call would not have provided incriminating evidence. A text could have.

 

[dgfred]

Good post Raisin! But, but, but he still was in on the planning and equipment gathering. Guilty as the rest.

 

[justtrish]

Sounds like he tied those type of guns to the crime scenes.

They're going to take a break. White is going to testify about how he tested all the ballistics evidence gathered at the crime scenes. This will be important testimony.

Jake said Billy killed Kenny with the .40 while he sat in the car and George waited up the road at the turnoff to left Fork. Jake also said Billy killed GR and CR and he fired the shot into CR's arm. Remember killed 5 shot 6?

Angie's testimony is going to get thrown out as hearsay. All she can testify to is what happened up until the time they walked out of the house. Anything after that is hearsay that Jake told her.

Jake said they went to the barn and changed clothes. For all Angie knows George refused to go and slept in the barn in a nice soft pile of hay that night. So she cannot place him at the scenes of the murders.

I don't think Jake is going to be believable since they already caught him in one lie at the FR/HG scene. He said he crawled through the open window then opened the back door to let George and Billy in. But the investigator said it was highly unlikely anyone crawled through that open window without kicking over that chicken feed. In the picture it looked impossible for a grown man to crawl through a small window in the dark and miss a 33 gal trash can, a tub of chicken feed. a game, electric wires. That was a very small area, maybe big enough for one foot and in the dark too. The investigator said very little room and no grass, no dirty footprints from walking around out in the dirt either. Not on the carpet or on the AC unit. Only one blade of grass on that AC unit. Wind could have blown it there. Jake may have crawled out the window after he killed FR/HG but i think he got in with CR's keys he said he took out of his jeans pocket.

No footprint evidence at the back door either. Somehow i cannot see someone as big as george was then or Billy getting through that back door without stumbling over the treadmill or bicycle and the full trash bag and without leaving any dirt from outside there or even a shoe impression. Not enough room.

So far I have not seen one shred of physical or forensic evidence that George was even there at the scenes. I am really hoping that the reason they took the jurors to that one house and the church is because they have a clear picture of George in one of the trucks. I think that is the only thing that will get a conviction for George.

But on the bright side....they are building a very strong case against Jake and Billy.

JMO

I mean without fingerprints or DNA they don't have any physical or forensic evidence that ANY of them were there.

What they do have is evidence that no one else was there either. No fingerprints or DNA at all for anyone, Wagner or otherwise.

They have their statements and behavior AFTER this crime. They have recovered weapons/ weapons parts where one participant said they were. One of the weapons being the exact one George preferred to use. They have the mother's statements that she bought the shoes for her sons to use and they have video of her doing it, the receipt for them, and video of her boys and their kids sitting in the car at Walmart while she did it. They have the 2 different size shoe prints at the scene. They have George buying fuel filters, just before the crimes that just happened to be used for silencers in the crimes. They have George signing custody papers just before this and it was all a fake (no way he didn't know those papers were fraudulently created/done). He helped modify that truck they bought. They might not have a "smoking gun", but what they do have points directly at this family and all of them participating. If his defense is going to be, he knew nothing, did nothing, not involved at all, he is going to lose. If his defense is going to be, he was coerced, he went to protect Jake, he was afraid for his life if he didn't participate, he was controlled and abused growing up, etc. He might have a better chance at winning some of the counts.

 

[Chelly]

Reposting earlier Chris Graves tweet about what to expect in court this week and next:

https://twitter.com/chrisgraves
Chris Graves
@chrisgraves
·
7h

After Monday, BCI forensic analysts in ballistics, blood spatter, and computer forensics are expected to testify the remainder of the week. Then expect wiretap testimony, likely to be extensive, and a shoe print expert William J. Bodziak the week after. 1/3

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Kenneth Rhoden's autopsy report/

https://sciotovalleyguardian.com/wp-content/uploads/Kenneth-1-1.pdf

 

[pittsburghgirl]

That tattoo of BW's is going to be tough to explain. Uhhh, yeah, I was over at my buddy's, and my sons show up to implement an unconscionable plan, about which, I was not consulted and of which, I had no prior knowledge. I was just shocked, I tell ya. Then I felt so distraught, you see, about the whole thing that I wanted to memorialize all 8 lives cut short by getting this 8 segmented scorpion over the back of my hand and index finger, Your Honor.

He can look at it for the rest of his life in his prison cell.

 

[Chelly]

Chris Graves

@chrisgraves
·
7h

Shoe print evidence will be key in the case. Bodziak literally wrote *the* book on the subject: "Footwear Impression Evidence: Detection, Recovery, and Examination (Practical Aspects of Criminal and Forensic Investigations)" 2/3

Chris Graves

@chrisgraves
·
7h

Former FBI agent Bodziak was a key witness in the O.J. Simpson trial. Bodziak traveled to two factories in eastern Italy to find the maker of the shoes that left a trail of bloody impressions at the scene of the double homicide, according to the NYT.

 

[dgfred]

Yikes... don't mention OJ's shoes. There is tape, pictures and evidence given that you owned those shoes.

OJ- No I didn't.
Jurors- OK, we believe you

 

[justtrish]

Chris Graves
@chrisgraves
·
7h

Shoe print evidence will be key in the case. Bodziak literally wrote *the* book on the subject: "Footwear Impression Evidence: Detection, Recovery, and Examination (Practical Aspects of Criminal and Forensic Investigations)" 2/3

Chris Graves
@chrisgraves
·
7h

Former FBI agent Bodziak was a key witness in the O.J. Simpson trial. Bodziak traveled to two factories in eastern Italy to find the maker of the shoes that left a trail of bloody impressions at the scene of the double homicide, according to the NYT.

Bodziak testified at the preliminary or bond hearing and he did well. He was very clear and specific on how he knew those shoes made that print and he also explained very well how he knew there were 2 different sizes based on the pattern left. It was much more than just the size of the shoe print equaling a specific size in that shoe. I recall it was in this shoe, the mold was different for each. I remember him saying some shoes have the same mold for the tread pattern for many sizes and the difference in print isn't based on the size of the shoe and some shoes have a different mold for each size and in this case I believe this was one were there is a different mold for each size so there are differences beyond just the print being larger since it's a different size. I found it very interesting!

 

[Piffcat]

this no dna con job thing the essence of why defense lawyers and their evil wordplay are terrible for justice and victims.. its derisive and self serving for the defense attorneys. instead of no wagner dna left at crime scenes- how bout we phrase-

murderers leave no dna behind after executing 8 family members at 4 separate crime scenes.


no wagner dna makes the false suggestion that there is dna found which did not match. in reality, if no dna is left at scene murder becomes impossible to convict? csi effect is the worst.

 

[LMDlong]

Reposting earlier Chris Graves tweet about what to expect in court this week and next:

https://twitter.com/chrisgraves
Chris Graves
@chrisgraves
·
7h

After Monday, BCI forensic analysts in ballistics, blood spatter, and computer forensics are expected to testify the remainder of the week. Then expect wiretap testimony, likely to be extensive, and a shoe print expert William J. Bodziak the week after. 1/3

I think tomorrow after Agent White is done testifying Suzanne Elliot will take the stand. She is a forensic scientist as a trace evidence examiner with BCI in London, Ohio. A trace evidence examine’s job is to match evidence left behind or taken from a crime scene by a perpetrator.

 

[dgfred]

Well... boots, fully clothed, gloves, mask, hair covered is supposed to serve a purpose.

 

[dgfred]

Plus... how many times would we have heard how it didn't mean anything because they had been to the homes before.

 

[Betty P]

That tattoo of BW's is going to be tough to explain. Uhhh, yeah, I was over at my buddy's, and my sons show up to implement an unconscionable plan, about which, I was not consulted and of which, I had no prior knowledge. I was just shocked, I tell ya. Then I felt so distraught, you see, about the whole thing that I wanted to memorialize all 8 lives cut short by getting this 8 segmented scorpion over the back of my hand and index finger, Your Honor.

Don't forget George's tattoo. JMO, its even worse than Billys. A skull with an eight ball and the Dead Man's Hand. Doesn't get any more obvious than that.

 

[joe jones]

can anybody explain to me the ballistic evidence, caught the last 10 minutes and am very confused, has there been testimony about what guns were used at each home, or is he coming back tomorrow to reveal that

 

[Betty P]

Jake said Billy killed Kenny with the .40 while he sat in the car and George waited up the road at the turnoff to left Fork. Jake also said Billy killed GR and CR and he fired the shot into CR's arm. Remember killed 5 shot 6?

Angie's testimony is going to get thrown out as hearsay. All she can testify to is what happened up until the time they walked out of the house. Anything after that is hearsay that Jake told her.

Jake said they went to the barn and changed clothes. For all Angie knows George refused to go and slept in the barn in a nice soft pile of hay that night. So she cannot place him at the scenes of the murders.

I don't think Jake is going to be believable since they already caught him in one lie at the FR/HG scene. He said he crawled through the open window then opened the back door to let George and Billy in. But the investigator said it was highly unlikely anyone crawled through that open window without kicking over that chicken feed. In the picture it looked impossible for a grown man to crawl through a small window in the dark and miss a 33 gal trash can, a tub of chicken feed. a game, electric wires. That was a very small area, maybe big enough for one foot and in the dark too. The investigator said very little room and no grass, no dirty footprints from walking around out in the dirt either. Not on the carpet or on the AC unit. Only one blade of grass on that AC unit. Wind could have blown it there. Jake may have crawled out the window after he killed FR/HG but i think he got in with CR's keys he said he took out of his jeans pocket.

No footprint evidence at the back door either. Somehow i cannot see someone as big as george was then or Billy getting through that back door without stumbling over the treadmill or bicycle and the full trash bag and without leaving any dirt from outside there or even a shoe impression. Not enough room.

So far I have not seen one shred of physical or forensic evidence that George was even there at the scenes. I am really hoping that the reason they took the jurors to that one house and the church is because they have a clear picture of George in one of the trucks. I think that is the only thing that will get a conviction for George.

But on the bright side....they are building a very strong case against Jake and Billy.

JMO

Billy's footprints are inside the door. That's all that matters.

 

[dgfred]

For joe

Glock and Rifle at CRs, .22 at DRs, Glock at KRs

 

[Betty P]

this no dna con job thing the essence of why defense lawyers and their evil wordplay are terrible for justice and victims.. its derisive and self serving for the defense attorneys. instead of no wagner dna left at crime scenes- how bout we phrase-

murderers leave no dna behind after executing 8 family members at 4 separate crime scenes.


no wagner dna makes the false suggestion that there is dna found which did not match. in reality, if no dna is left at scene murder becomes impossible to convict? csi effect is the worst.

Yes, somehow prosecutors were able to put away criminals for murder without DNA for a very long time.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Jake said Billy killed Kenny with the .40 while he sat in the car and George waited up the road at the turnoff to left Fork. Jake also said Billy killed GR and CR and he fired the shot into CR's arm. Remember killed 5 shot 6?

Angie's testimony is going to get thrown out as hearsay. All she can testify to is what happened up until the time they walked out of the house. Anything after that is hearsay that Jake told her.

Jake said they went to the barn and changed clothes. For all Angie knows George refused to go and slept in the barn in a nice soft pile of hay that night. So she cannot place him at the scenes of the murders.

I don't think Jake is going to be believable since they already caught him in one lie at the FR/HG scene. He said he crawled through the open window then opened the back door to let George and Billy in. But the investigator said it was highly unlikely anyone crawled through that open window without kicking over that chicken feed. In the picture it looked impossible for a grown man to crawl through a small window in the dark and miss a 33 gal trash can, a tub of chicken feed. a game, electric wires. That was a very small area, maybe big enough for one foot and in the dark too. The investigator said very little room and no grass, no dirty footprints from walking around out in the dirt either. Not on the carpet or on the AC unit. Only one blade of grass on that AC unit. Wind could have blown it there. Jake may have crawled out the window after he killed FR/HG but i think he got in with CR's keys he said he took out of his jeans pocket.

No footprint evidence at the back door either. Somehow i cannot see someone as big as george was then or Billy getting through that back door without stumbling over the treadmill or bicycle and the full trash bag and without leaving any dirt from outside there or even a shoe impression. Not enough room.

So far I have not seen one shred of physical or forensic evidence that George was even there at the scenes. I am really hoping that the reason they took the jurors to that one house and the church is because they have a clear picture of George in one of the trucks. I think that is the only thing that will get a conviction for George.

But on the bright side....they are building a very strong case against Jake and Billy.

JMO

If he went along and drove a truck, he's building of aggravated murder. Helped move a body? Aggravated murder. Guarded a door? Aggravated murder.