OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #74

[RAISINISBACK]

I'm waiting for some evidence or testimony that links Gw4 to this crime or conspiracy. I haven't heard or seen the link yet. If the prosecution doesn't get out of the weeds, the jury will never see the forest. I hope something is coming soon.

Yeah and Parker and Nash look like they are about to break out the champagne and glasses at any moment.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Because these Wagners are stupid, they really think they look lik the cast of Boondocks Saints, Those dumb SOBs are truly spoiled stupid brats, JMO

I think they are phsyco's who want to be movie stars.

JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

So far, the jury has seen and heard tons of evidence against Jake. George, who is on trial, has hardly been mentioned.

but my thoughts are about what the jury is thinking.

BBM

Good post and I agree.

JMO

Raisnback,
You are looking to hard at the evidence against Jake, the prosecution wants to show that the murders had to have more than one killer, it took months of studying the victim, stocking and buying things for the murders also they don’t have to prove that GW4 killed anyone, they just got to prove that he was with Jake or Angela while doing so, JMO

 

[Puzzles8]

@pittsburghgirl and @24Roses Thank you! Outstanding posts loaded with what we need to know.

I admit I am impatient for AC to get to the crux of this trial and am overly concerned the jury will be indecisive.

Be patient. IMO the Prosecution is taking time to be thorough and methodical in laying out the evidence of this case. I like their approach. I try to put myself in the place of the jury, hearing this all in detail for the first time. I think the Prosecution is doing a great job. Why?, because all the defense team can do is ask meaningless questions on cross exam and object, object, object. They know their only chance is a retrial based on technical appeals.

It may seem slow to us on this forum, but consider we have been following the intricate details of this case for 4-6 years. We are on our 75th thread of over 1,000 posts each = approx. 75,000 posts over six years. We kow the Discovery by heart.

IMO, now that the groundwork has been laid, we are just starting to approach the more interesting and important parts of the trial. Sadly though, those next called to the stand will probably opt out of public broadcast. I hope reporters will do a great job of reporting on their testimony.

I feel strongly justice is coming!

JMO

 

[SuziQ]

I just wonder WHY G4 would have felt like he needed to "go along" to protect Jake from Billy? My mind wanders back in time too much.

IMO, the GW'4 knew that his parents were going to make the murders look like a murder suicide committed by Jake. After all this was all about Jake's beef with Hanna. Jake would be blamed and the rest of the W's would move on. And AW would have her precious grandchild back. IMO, Billy was in charge of killing Jake, therefore GW'4 was going to prevent that from happening. Remember, as part of the planning, AW made her boys draw up a will giving her custody of the grandkids in case they were killed committing the murders. All JMO.

 

[Puzzles8]

Yeah and Parker and Nash look like they are about to break out the champagne and glasses at any moment.

JMO

I think Parker consistently looks like he has eaten bad seafood

I see absolutely no look of joy from either Parker or Nash at the defense table.

JMO

 

[Chelly]

Yeah and Parker and Nash look like they are about to break oPut the champagne and glasses at any moment.

JMO

Parker and Nash are gaining confidence. You can see and hear it in their demeanor. Prosecution needs to up their game. I had high hopes for AC as a prosecutor, but am disappointed.

Edited to soften my opinion

 

[Cool Cats]

BBM

You come across like the jury won't believe a word of what Jake and Angela testify to under oath.

I wouldn't, not without some solid evidence to back up what they say. I have seen them both lie too many times in front of cameras and reporters. Do you really think Nash and Parker have not seen those same interviews that we have, that catches both of them in lies? Or Nash and Parker haven't read what the investigators put in their reports about, as Charlie Reader so succulently put it, "And the lies. All the lies they told." Do you think Nash and Parker were deaf in that courtroom during the motion hearing where AC said Jake told several different stories and his proffer is not consistent with all the evidence that BCI has?

In my opinion Nash and Parker are going to tear both Jake and Angie a new one. Every single one of those lies they have told is going to be thrown back in their face in front of that jury. Bet on it.

Almost everything you outlined was prefixed with Jake said, Angie said. All they did was give an outline of what they say happened that night. It is going to take solid evidence to back up what Jake and Angie said before they get a conviction. As the old saying goes "talk is cheap, it takes money to buy whiskey."

Also the prosecution said they have both circumstantial evidence and actual evidence against George.

Then hopefully sometime soon we get to see the actual evidence.

Let me make this clear. I think George is guilty as sin. I have thought that for 6 years now. But I also have a bad feeling that AC is tanking her own case with these testimonies that Jake abused Hannah. That has nothing to do with George. She is dumping a boat load of red herrings all over her case. Those are MY thoughts and MY opinion. I am not asking anyone else to share them.

Give the prosecution time to prove it's case against George before you have him acquitted of 22 felonies.

Well hopefully he won't get acquitted. But with each passing day I become less sure he will be found guilty unless AC gets off her duff and presents some hard evidence to the jury. And stops bringing in all the witnesses to testify against Jake. Because while it may be very satisfying for the family to face George in court it is going to leave the jury asking "where's the evidence against this defendant who's trial we are supposed to be at?"

Better keep in mind that Jake and Angie are not on trial here. George is.

And I will tell you what I have seen. I have seen with each passing day that goes by with no evidence against George, Nash and Parker smiles more and George looks more and more relaxed. Go back and look for yourself. All 14 days of it. Catch Georges relaxed stance right after the shoe expert testified that she couldn't say for sure George wore those shoes. That's when George stopped frowning and looking so angry.

Think there might be a reason for that? My bet is Nash and Parker is not growing merrier by the day because the state is proving their case.

JMO

Thanks for clarification that you think George is guilty as sin. I get what you are saying, you want more focus from the prosecution on George and less on Jake.

It does bother me that BOTH shoe experts can't say who was wearing the shoes but that is one of those questions the jury will discuss. The jury could come to the conclusion through Angela's interviews, Angela's testimony and shoe print experts, that it is beyond a reasonable doubt George wore the size shoe Angie says she bought for him. The shoe print found in blood at Chris Sr's and there was a shoe print found at Dana's.

The jury will hash out how much of Jake and Angela's testimony they agree on and if they believe the testimony that George was at the crime scenes - as Angie and Jake say. And if they believe George was at the crime scenes - beyond a reasonable doubt - then I believe the jury will convict George of murder. Probably even all 8 murders and that would put him in prison for life which would be the best justice for the victim's loved ones.

If the jury does not believe George went along on the murders that is where I see trouble. I think one of the most important parts of this case is that the jury believes that George went along with Jake and Billy to the murder scenes.

It is the witnesses who are criticizing Jake all the time but it is still early in the trial and the prosecution said they have the evidence to convict George without the proffers.

I agree, I want to see more evidence against George personally. I am trying to stay as positive as I can that the prosecution will present more evidence and witness testimony directly on George and not as much on Jake.

But I think the prosecution has a plan to put all the pieces together which will show the jury beyond a reasonable doubt that George is guilty of the murder conspiracy of 8 people.

So I had to have time to think about it and I think I get where your coming from. No one knows what a jury will feel is proven and what a jury will feel is not proven.

I personally feel there has been enough evidence presented so far that would show the jury that George is guilty of murder but I admit I am relying heavily on the proffers, proffers are testimony, what Jake and Angela have said and will say on the stand. For many reasons I believe them when they say George was at the crime scenes.

Yes I hope for more evidence against George personally and think the prosecution has their plans laid out for this.

Too early yet to tell what will come out on the stand but I hope to eventually be posting more evidence and testimony that points directly to George and not just to Jake. We all understand Jake was a terrible abusive tyrant with no empathy (I think he was born a pschopath) and thought he basically owned Hanna.

Quote:
"Those are MY thoughts and MY opinion. I am not asking anyone else to share them."

Yes, you have a right to your opinions even when other posters do not see eye to eye with you.

 

[Puzzles8]

Parker and Nash are gaining confidence. You can see and hear it in their demeanor. This could be their case to win. Prosecution needs to up their game. I had high hopes for AC as a prosecutor, but her opening statements were a disappointment and whatever her strategy is now has her stuck. She is in no way an A-team prosecutor. in my opinion.

I feel badly that AC had COVID the first week of trial. I do think that affected her performance in her opening statement. Agree, Prosecution needs to consistently up their game. I think Andy Wilson is doing a spectacular job in his examination of witnesses. Rob Junk is doing ok as well.

IMO, the defense is approaching this case on points they can appeal on. Respectfully, I just don't see and hear the same confidence as you.

Agree to disagree?

Just My Humble Opinion

 

[justtrish]

Where would I find the subpoenas issued? I am looking on the Pike County court site, but I can't where that information would be under George's Trial Docket.

 

[24Roses]

Why would that be? The are lots of empty seats.

IMO-that would be why there alot of empty seats. They only want people there who in their mind are necessary to be there.

 

[rsd1200]

Facebook photos are allowed sometimes. I have posted the Wagner's Defiance Farms Facebook photos and words Angie posted on it many many times and the mods never deleted them. Defiance Farms is where they lived on Peterson Rd.

Here is a photo of Jake and George feeding the pigs at Defiance Farms. On left you can see George's black hair. Jake's hair is covered with a cap.

See photo:
Defiance Farms (George 4's hair dyed black) April 30th 2016

That's the one. At one WS thread they were frowned upon, another they were not, it was my understanding that they were frowned upon on the R/G thread, so I just stopped posting them altogether. I'm glad they are accepting them again.

 

[Myland]

Jmo I would have more confidence in the shoe evidence if the found a print in Billy’s size or a shoe purchased for Billy. 10 and 11 common size. Small Walmart in Waverly. I am sure they size a lot of those same shoes cause of them being cheap and not much of selection. Also i felt extremely sorry for Cody but was surprised that he was able to enter fr trailer after a deputy already at scene. I don’t think Cody did anything wrong but would have thought that deputy would have stopped any entry. Jmo I would also more confidence in the trucks if the bci guy hadn’t said he couldn’t say for sure those all same trucks or see the trucks better. It is very common for the roads out here to be traveled all hours of the night. Jmo

 

[Cool Cats]

Jmo I would have more confidence in the shoe evidence if the found a print in Billy’s size or a shoe purchased for Billy. 10 and 11 common size. Small Walmart in Waverly. I am sure they size a lot of those same shoes cause of them being cheap and not much of selection. Also i felt extremely sorry for Cody but was surprised that he was able to enter fr trailer after a deputy already at scene. I don’t think Cody did anything wrong but would have thought that deputy would have stopped any entry. Jmo I would also more confidence in the trucks if the bci guy hadn’t said he couldn’t say for sure those all same trucks or see the trucks better. It is very common for the roads out here to be traveled all hours of the night. Jmo

Angie bought the size and style of shoes for George and Jake that they did not wear. Billy probably was wearing a size and style he never wears. BCI could have a footprint or partial footprint of Billy's that he was wearing that night but no way to prove it is his shoe print. No receipt found for it, no testimony that anyone bought it for him etc...

I think because (I believe all 3) were wearing shoes in styles and sizes they normally do not wear, that they were not worried about leaving shoe prints. Would have been fairly easy to smear out the footprints and not move bodies through blood which could leave prints etc.....Even to dump Clorox on the floor.

What seems stranger to me is that they bought brass catchers/items to make brass catchers, but then left enough casings around to tie them back to the casings on Peterson Rd.

They were practicing with their silencers so you would think they would practice alot with the brass catchers. Also, count how many shots were made at each crime scene and then make sure they counted all the brass cartridges so as to take them all along.

Too many shots plus outdoor shots really screwed them up with leaving this type of ballistic evidence all over.

You never let the public enter crime scenes. Maybe there was a specific reason LE let Cody enter, maybe for identification? I assume they had him cover his feet with the shoe covers LE uses at crime scenes.

 

[Myland]

Angie bought the size and style of shoes for George and Jake that they did not wear. Billy probably was wearing a size and style he never wears. BCI could have a footprint or partial footprint of Billy's that he was wearing that night but no way to prove it is his shoe print. No receipt found for it, no testimony that anyone bought it for him etc...

I think because (I believe all 3) were wearing shoes in styles and sizes they normally do not wear, that they were not worried about leaving shoe prints. Would have been fairly easy to smear out the footprints and not move bodies through blood which could leave prints etc.....Even to dump Clorox on the floor.

What seems stranger to me is that they bought brass catchers/items to make brass catchers, but then left enough casings around to tie them back to the casings on Peterson Rd.

They were practicing with their silencers so you would think they would practice alot with the brass catchers. Also, count how many shots and make sure they counted all the brass cartridges so as to take them all along.

Too many shots plus outdoor shots really screwed them up with leaving this type of ballistic evidence all over.

You never let the public enter crime scenes. Maybe there was a specific reason LE let Cody enter, maybe for identification? I assume they had him cover his feet with the shoe covers LE uses at crime scenes.

Cody stated he thought bm was pulled over, which I believe and then stated that he was in bedroom when deputy entered and told him he had to get out. He had no idea they were dead when he enter. He thought fr had overslept and that’s why he went there and went in. I completely believe him, but my thing is if the deputy didn’t secure that trailer did he secure cr? Jmo

 

[Cool Cats]

what angela canepa needs to do is frame this evidence correctly. that starts with explaining to the jury something like this-

4 family members worked in close cooperation in order to accomplish the goal of murdering 8 family members in one night. the murder plan is intricate, specific and coldly calculated. it could not be accomplished alone, and for this reason the 4 family members worked in unison so the murders would be possible. all 4 family members had the solitary goal of eliminating anyone who could threaten the success of the 8 murders. this goal of custody was desired by all family members not just jake. aquiring full custody while strongarming the biological mothers out of the childrens life in order for angela to retain sole role as mother. angela, jake, illy and george previously committed felonies (threats of violence and pulling weapons)so g4 wife would give up full custody. they used attorneys and their access to funds to dishonestly and illegally remove a mother from g4s son.
the wagner crime family tried these initial tactics when jakes daughters became a target. however they did not work on hanna because she had strong family support and the funds to fight the wagners. just like g4 sons mother, hanna had done nothing wrong and was a great parent. jake violently controlled her as long as he could. when she removed herself from the abusive situation and refused to budge, the 4 wagners set the goal to kill her and anyone else who could stop this custody goal. each wagner had a part to play in the beginiing planning stages, the killing stages, and the cover up stages. g4s tasks were
purchasing the "murder truck" which had no tie to the wagners. george and jake modified this murder truck so that g4 and jake could be at crsr without crsr knowing. george bought a nightscope and a mask to prepare for the night time murders. he bought a 40 caliber glock which was also used in the murders. before leaving for the murders, all 4 wagners agreed to kill everyone at each household.
during the murders jake and george were hidden under a truck while billy distracted crsr. george or jake fired a shot from the sks rifle which broke crsr arm disabled him at which point billy shot gary and crsr. g4 and billy dragged the bodies to a back room so they wouldnt be found right away. g4 stepped in blood and left a footprint at crsr.george helped drive one of the trucks on the trips to other murder scenes. he stood guard while jake murdered 5 more people-including 2 nursing mothers a 16 year old, a father of 2 and a grandmother. g4 was there to make sure none of them survived.
after the murders g4 worked with his family to throw the investigation off. he warned family members to stay away from places where leo showed up. he spoke loudly about revenge and busting out of jail if they were arrested. he was essentially the hype man for the wagners.

there is 0 lack of evidence

Good post. Very true. If the jury believes this George will wish he had taken a plea deal and maybe get a chance at parole, a chance not to die in prison.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Cody stated he thought bm was pulled over, which I believe and then stated that he was in bedroom when deputy entered and told him he had to get out. He had no idea they were dead when he enter. He thought fr had overslept and that’s why he went there and went in. I completely believe him, but my thing is if the deputy didn’t secure that trailer did he secure cr? Jmo

I agree. Valid point. I too was surprised when Cody said he entered Frankie's trailer while the deputy was talking to BJM. I know that is a sparsely populated county and a small sheriff's office but the deputy should have made BJM stand off to the side and put up crime scene tape first.

I actually was shocked at how many people were allowed in those crime scenes. BJM, her friends, Cody, JM, Lenny, and JM testified when he got to Frankie's there were a lot of family already there. Who all went in? Every single person who entered those crime scenes contaminated them in some way.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Because these Wagners are stupid, they really think they look lik the cast of Boondocks Saints, Those dumb SOBs are truly spoiled stupid brats, JMO

Canepa said George and Jake both dyed their hair darker the week prior to the homicides, and that they were inspired by a scene from the movie “Boondock Saints 2.” Jake, she said, wore his hair like the actor Norman Reedus, who appears in the Boondock Saints movies as well as the TV show “The Walking Dead.” Jake fancied himself like Reedus, Canepa told the jury.

Pike County murders: Movie’s use of gun …

 

[justtrish]

I agree. Valid point. I too was surprised when Cody said he entered Frankie's trailer while the deputy was talking to BJM. I know that is a sparsely populated county and a small sheriff's office but the deputy should have made BJM stand off to the side and put up crime scene tape first.

I actually was shocked at how many people were allowed in those crime scenes. BJM, her friends, Cody, JM, Lenny, and JM testified when he got to Frankie's there were a lot of family already there. Who all went in? Every single person who entered those crime scenes contaminated them in some way.

JMO

I think it's the location that made this possible. I would be interested in exact times LE arrived. I think it's likely far away from where a sheriff deputy would normally be waiting for calls and likely very close for family in the area to get to.

In this scenario I can see how only one LE was on scene and in this case 2 homes in a very close proximity to one another, but maybe the LEO and BJM were close to CRsr house and when Cody pulled in he was closer to Frankies and by the time the LEO realized someone was going in, he couldn't get to Cody in time.

I am not sure a single LEO responding to this scene would have been able to put up crime scene tape at both locations while also dealing with and talking to BJM. I am sure the protocol likely is wait for a second unit to arrive or EMS or someone to assist.

I think the arrival of Cody was likely VERY soon after the first LE was on the scene and there just wasn't the time or ability to secure both homes at that point. Some rural areas could be a good 20-30 minutes respond time for LE or EMS.

 

[Cool Cats]

Where would I find the subpoenas issued? I am looking on the Pike County court site, but I can't where that information would be under George's Trial Docket.

Did you check the second page? On bottom right you can click on page 2. There are subpoenas on both page 1 and 2.