OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #76

[rescuemom]

So if George was so good at standing up to all of his family members, why couldn't he say no to participating in the planning, execution and cover up of the murders?

JMO

He might have but he went anyway and now is standing trial with 22 counts against him.

 

[Tena]

I believe AW bought the shoes to protect their footprints outside the homes (dirt, mud etc.) I don't think they ever thought there would be traces left inside...JMO

 

[rescuemom]

he was too fat to have moved around the crime scenes is one of the defenses arguments, but some of the agents were big chaps and they managed it, so we shall see what the defense has to say about his weight in their CIC

Chris also agreed he was strong that he could drag a deer... or a murder victim in to another room??

 

[dgfred]

I think AW and the other 2 would have known if GW was wavering at all about the killings. Don't think he was. It would have been easy to make him stay home.
It looks to me 2 could handle it, maybe even one if CR was shot at the right moment. So he wasn't really needed except for a lookout maybe.

 

[joe jones]

are the families still suing in civil court?

 

[rescuemom]

gotta say this about canepa. she is great knowledgable big part of this case success. she is a horrendous examiner. horrible. the note taking makes her seem like she is overwelmed by details and its disorientating . i know all the facts and i still have trouble following her line of questioning.

leading questions which are so detailed they are testimony. chris neusom is a POWERFUL witness. he was in the same spot as the jury- being told wagners didnt do it and he believed it. finding out jake pled guilty must have been insane to him he really didnt think it was true. but angie took all the breath of out the room asking if jake and angela deal same day- shes the prosecutor!! what was that?
and it weakens the conspiracy presentation significantly. gives appearance every questions must come back to "clan think" and when those subjects are vague but more importantly unnecessary even her witnesses cant follow.

its like in her opening trying to stamp out wha the defense would say before they did. very bad form and gave credence to their theory by acting concered!. when your confident in your case your evidence and charging documents theres no need to battle defense theory because youve got it locked down.

the wagners dont need to be a cult to be rico. they just have to participate in an ongoing criminal enterprise whose organization is common goal among members accomplish murders and get away with it. conspiracies are the industrial revolution of crime- specialized roles and talents and multiple members subcontracting activities to improve likelihood of success. john gotti was convicted of murder in his last trial on sammy the bulls testimony that he killed 19 in service of gotti without any physical assistance from gotti. use the wagners own words against them "seal team 6" is a TEAM right?
i mostly follow pilcher on twitter with live updates he boils down the 10 minutes required for each questions. canepa would be a great second chair with the notes and details even objections. its like why doe she need to notate the answers to questions she asked?? is she a stenographer??

the other attorneys are much better litigators with personality and a flow to the questioning. even junk is personable and reasonable.

AC knows this case backward and forward. I'm detail oriented and at times this is tiring and redundant but even though I feel knowledgeable about the case I am learning things I did not know. We have to give this jury credit that they are keeping up and in the end will have no choice but to find GW4 guilty

 

[FonescaFan]

I was actually impressed the defense was nice. I think maybe they learned from earlier witnesses now it looked to try to make a victim look bad on the stand in a condescending and rude way.

I think this witnesses is believeable because he did say positive things about George. He was one of his best friends and more like a brother than an uncle/nephew relationship. Chris N is a victim here too. He loves George even now, doesn't mean he wants to be close to him, but he is the only one that Chris even remotely misses.

That does not mean Chris N doesn't think George participated. I think that is where the defense is going with that. Chris must not believe George was part of it because he still loves George, but doesn't love Jake and Angela and he misses George, but not Jake and Angela.

I had this afternoon off, so this was the first time I was able to watch live testimony. Chris N. gave a lot of insight into the Wagners’ personalities and lifestyle. Not sure he helped the prosecution all that much though…IMO.

 

[Betty P]

how would they find that out they are not supposed to read or watch anything from the trial until they have rendered a verdict, they may also have to decide penalty ie DP or LWOP, so once everything is finished, they shouldn't learn anything that is not introduced from witness stand,

his playing poker with anybody bears no relation to the murders, so why the jurors need to know anything about any of the attorney's families is irrelevant, unless the attorney's family members are going to be a witness to something related to the murders

In Ohio, the judge decides the sentence, not the jury. Just as info.

Legal Blog

 

[joe jones]

I had this afternoon off, so this was the first time I was able to watch live testimony. Chris N. gave a lot of insight into the Wagners’ personalities and lifestyle. Not sure he helped the prosecution all that much though…IMO.

I agree, over and over we are told on the one hand this is a cult family, in the next breath they cannot stand each other, which one is it, they can't be both, and even poor AC who has tried so hard to sell the idea of the 4 Wagners as a cult today made a comment something like GW JW AW minus BW, as jury are now seeing BW was long gone from that family well before the murders were even imagined,

 

[dgfred]

But then he is going to Alaska to live happily ever after?

 

[joe jones]

In Ohio, the judge decides the sentence, not the jury. Just as info.

Legal Blog

I thought the jury decides that's why they are DP qualified, but I must be mistaken

 

[dgfred]

Dad doesn't care for boys... boys don't care for dad.

Mom deflects dad keeping both him and boys right there under her wing.

 

[Ann99]

Chris also agreed he was strong that he could drag a deer... or a murder victim in to another room??

Seemed to me it was also brought out that G4 planted crops or food items to” lure the deer in” so he could kill them. Not a good skill to bring out in G4 defense.
Again, also shows planning skills on G4 part.

 

[Betty P]

He might have but he went anyway and now is standing trial with 22 counts against him.

Knowing he was capable of standing up to his family when he disagreed points to him being in agreement about the murders. I don't see how you can look at it any other way. JMO

 

[PrairieWind]

should be done pretrial, so they all would have known about it so no need to mention it as has nothing to do with murders

should be done pretrial, so they all would have known about it so no need to mention it as has nothing to do with murders

Whether a witness knows attorneys in a case has no bearing on whether that person's testimony is allowed. But one party of another may want to let the jury know of this potential relationship. The jury can then consider that in determining how credible that witness is.

 

[Puzzles8]

I was actually impressed the defense was nice. I think maybe they learned from earlier witnesses now it looked to try to make a victim look bad on the stand in a condescending and rude way.

I think this witnesses is believeable because he did say positive things about George. He was one of his best friends and more like a brother than an uncle/nephew relationship. Chris N is a victim here too. He loves George even now, doesn't mean he wants to be close to him, but he is the only one that Chris even remotely misses.

That does not mean Chris N doesn't think George participated. I think that is where the defense is going with that. Chris must not believe George was part of it because he still loves George, but doesn't love Jake and Angela and he misses George, but not Jake and Angela.

Parker was only nice today, because he felt the defense could get in a few points from CN's testimony. ie. how different Jake and George were.

Once the next prosecution witness takes the stand, you'll see him return to his usual nasty style.

IMO, Parker has learned nothing..

Parker's tone is actually an interesting barometer of how potentially damaging each prosecution witness is.

As always, JMO, MOO and etc.

 

[Betty P]

I agree, over and over we are told on the one hand this is a cult family, in the next breath they cannot stand each other, which one is it, they can't be both, and even poor AC who has tried so hard to sell the idea of the 4 Wagners as a cult today made a comment something like GW JW AW minus BW, as jury are now seeing BW was long gone from that family well before the murders were even imagined,

Family dynamics in cult are often like this. That's why they're nearly always very harmful to people.

 

[Kyshoegal]

Unpopular opinion: George helped drag CR and GR to the bedroom, and more involved in this than I originally thought. If Jake was truly OCD, he’d avoid the blood. I’m also not convinced Jake shot as many ppl as he says. I think it’s entirely possible that he’s admitting to it to cover for brother since he’s the reason George is in this to begin with. So far my take is that GW was much more of a get it done, not afraid to get dirty kind of guy and JW was a spoiled momma’s boy who went with the flow/laid back, until he didn’t get his way

 

[Betty P]

gotta say this about canepa. she is great knowledgable big part of this case success. she is a horrendous examiner. horrible. the note taking makes her seem like she is overwelmed by details and its disorientating . i know all the facts and i still have trouble following her line of questioning.

leading questions which are so detailed they are testimony. chris neusom is a POWERFUL witness. he was in the same spot as the jury- being told wagners didnt do it and he believed it. finding out jake pled guilty must have been insane to him he really didnt think it was true. but angie took all the breath of out the room asking if jake and angela deal same day- shes the prosecutor!! what was that?
and it weakens the conspiracy presentation significantly. gives appearance every questions must come back to "clan think" and when those subjects are vague but more importantly unnecessary even her witnesses cant follow.

its like in her opening trying to stamp out wha the defense would say before they did. very bad form and gave credence to their theory by acting concered!. when your confident in your case your evidence and charging documents theres no need to battle defense theory because youve got it locked down.

the wagners dont need to be a cult to be rico. they just have to participate in an ongoing criminal enterprise whose organization is common goal among members accomplish murders and get away with it. conspiracies are the industrial revolution of crime- specialized roles and talents and multiple members subcontracting activities to improve likelihood of success. john gotti was convicted of murder in his last trial on sammy the bulls testimony that he killed 19 in service of gotti without any physical assistance from gotti. use the wagners own words against them "seal team 6" is a TEAM right?
i mostly follow pilcher on twitter with live updates he boils down the 10 minutes required for each questions. canepa would be a great second chair with the notes and details even objections. its like why doe she need to notate the answers to questions she asked?? is she a stenographer??

the other attorneys are much better litigators with personality and a flow to the questioning. even junk is personable and reasonable.

Chris gave a lot of valuable insight into how the Wagners functioned as a criminal / economic unit with all the trading, deals, insurance fraud, etc. that all of them participated in. It was how the family functioned. They had their own way of making a living that was very different from most other people. They did it as a team, buying and selling guns, doing insurance fraud schemes, drug trafficking, various scams. All seemed to know what was going on and each had a role. Chris painted a picture of that, showing it was a long term way of life.

After hearing his testimony, its very easy to see how they went about planning and carrying out the murders. It was just another project to work on.

 

[Betty P]

Unpopular opinion: George helped drag CR and GR to the bedroom, and more involved in this than I originally thought. If Jake was truly OCD, he’d avoid the blood. I’m also not convinced Jake shot as many ppl as he says. I think it’s entirely possible that he’s admitting to it to cover for brother since he’s the reason George is in this to begin with. So far my take is that GW was much more of a get it done, not afraid to get dirty kind of guy and JW was a spoiled momma’s boy who went with the flow/laid back, until he didn’t get his way

Yep! Agree 100%, especially after today's testimony.

BTW, Chris knew exactly what he was saying today and knew how it would be used against people he had grown up with and knew very well, including his own sister. He testified honestly and in such great detail today because he knew they were guilty and regardless of how close he was to them, he knew they needed to be held accountable.

JMO, I got the impression that Wagners and his sister had crossed a line when they got his mother involved in the whole thing. At first, I think he thought she was only in trouble for AW's custody scheme. But when the confessions happened, he realized how seriously bad they had been in bringing his mother into it.