OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #76

[Kyshoegal]

I mean it sounds like she just wanted to run off with the grandkids and leave the kids.

BBM
Yeppers, that is exactly what she said in the text. Right after she said she wanted to kick Jake and George's azzes to the curb and keep the GKs. lol

That’s exactly what it sounds like, and I hate to admit this but I have been hesitant to say AW was the catalyst for this entire thing but after hearing the conversations I now believe it. IMO BW knew the only way he was getting her was if he took the kids and grandkids with them. I want to see more of Jake’s convos because so far he didn’t hate the baby momma, he just didn’t agree with her parenting but I don’t think he would have gotten to mass murder on his own. I don’t think he was the mastermind or George either.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Jmo once again state proving Jake and Angela weirdos, but no evidence George in on murders. Heck they even told why Jake might lie on Billy. Sounded like Billy couldn’t stand those boys and the boys felt same way. So far this morning we heard George had contact on phone with Billy three times day before murder and he said he make the person that broke into his grandpas house pay. He may have said kill that person, but do you know many times I heard someone say they were going to kill someone’s in a situation like that when in reality they never hurt a flea. I listen again and it wasn’t kill it was worst nightmare. Another common comment

Once again all good points. He didn't say kill, he said "I am going to be their worst nightmare."

Reminds me of Ghostbusters and the giant marshmallow.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

It doesn't really matter why George was there. He was. Voluntarily. He knew about the murders in advance (buying parts for the silencers, etc.) yet he did nothing to stop them, warn the victims, etc. He cared nothing about the victims, regarded them as objects or lesser forms of life not worthy of his concern.

JMO, it's a remote possibility he went along for some other reason, but in the eyes of the law it doesn't matter. He was at the crime scene, he helped plan it, he helped cover it up as part of a conspiracy. He's guilty. Being mad at your dad isn't an excuse.

In the texts shown today by the BCI between Jake and Angie, Jake said he bought the parts.

JMO

 

[SuziQ]

Could be he just forgot it at Peterson and didn't realize it until later and decided to retrieve it the next morning. Doesn't mean much as I have left my cell phone at various places and if it was late decided to get it the next morning or have whoever I left it at their house bring it the next morning.

What I found interesting in connection to AC's argument this was an enmeshed family is Angie telling Billy she wanted the boys to move out into their own houses. Also Billy refusing to come back until Jake and George were moved out. Angie asking Billy if he had found them a house yet so she could move in with him so it would be only Billy and Angie living together alone.

Also the reference to George and Jake calling them MFer's Bast***ds and monsters. He also referenced fighting with them often. Angie expressed the desire for Billy to move back in with her and for Jake and George to move out. But then she tells him she cannot move because she has to take care of BW and SW. Also when Billy said let jake take care of SW.

This occurred from Dec 2015 until 03- 2016.

These conversations between her and Billy kind of blows Ac's enmeshed all for one and one for all theory out of the water.

Sounds like Billy couldn't stand George or Jake and wanted Angie to kick them out so he could come back to her. Angie countering with Billy getting a house so she and him could live in it together.

JMO

And yet they were so close they all planned and committed a mass murder together. At the end of the day, blood is thicker than water. IMO.

 

[Betty P]

In the texts shown today by the BCI between Jake and Angie, Jake said he bought the parts.

JMO

Not all of the parts. George bought some, too.

 

[Kyshoegal]

Random thoughts/questions.
WHO is BW calling from jail? He’s in jail for murder and is on the phone more than my teenager. Talking to who and about what?
Did he even like his kids? IMO I think was he jealous of them because they got more of Angela’s attention.
When are going to get to the point? I understand foundation but for the love all that’s holy this trial is loosing me and I get watch it intermittently. If I was stuck in a chair I’d be asleep some days. Put George at the scene or directly involved or it’s over. Where were the conversations between Jake and George, Angela and George, Billy and George? I don’t need to hear about Angela and Jake yapping over piercing ears, it’s doesn’t even sound like he was that mad. I certainly hope this picks up and soon.

 

[SuziQ]

But none of us lived there so we don't know what kind of relationship existed between them all. The only testimony we have heard is from Tabitha who it was obvious hated Angie. Tabitha recanted most of her testimony on cross examination.

JMO

I do not remember Tabitha recanting most of her testimony. Imo.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Thanks twall.

Bookmarking for my memory.
View attachment 372704

Glock 17 9mm may be a gen1. (Image fromgunsinternational.com)
View attachment 372717
versus Glock 2nd Gen 40 Cal.
View attachment 372728
The Beretta 96 40 cal is beside it (image from gunsinternational.com)
View attachment 372713

Your favorite bearded BCI guy testified that the Glock 17 was a 9mm caliber.

Also testified there were two guns listed on the same line. A Glock 17 9mm caliber and a Berretta 96 .40 caliber. Two different guns on one line. Jake made a typo. lol

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

James Pilcher
@jamespilcher
Starting new thread for next witness in Wagner murder trial. BCI analyst Julia Eveslage returns to stand at this point

Again, this is her third or fourth appearance. She has connected a lot of dots - saved the Walmart receipt and did a lot of phone record works.

Went through phone belonging to Angela Wagner found during SR 41 search of trailers and trucks.

Showing web history found on phone from December 2015

View attachment 372721

Angela was looking at houses for sale in Seward, Alaska in late December 2015.

More searches for houses in January 2016.

She was also looking at sites indicating possible sexual abuse in a toddler and trauma in a toddler.

In March - searched for pictures of Hanna Rhoden on Facebook and Hanna's friends list. Eveslage says they did determined it was indeed Angela's phone. Looked up an article called "Rape Culture in Alaskan Wilderness" from The Atlantic

Late March Angela still searching for info on Alaska - employment, job listings for truck drivers etc.

April 27 2016 lots of searches and reading about murders

View attachment 372722

Conversation between Angela and Billy on the phone. "Everything is f-d up" Billy writes. "A bullet to the head would fix me right up."

Later Angela says Sophia has sore rear end and won’t let anyone see. Billy later says you “can keep those bastards” talking about George and Jake

View attachment 372723

Now a string about Hanna Rhoden getting Sophia's ears pierced. They were angry and wanted to let them grow back in.

More between Jake and Angela about items he bought and BCI thought it might be parts to make suppressors/silencers

BCI also knew about purchases made by Wagners from Amazon, auto parts stores, etc. There were purchases by Jake and Angela of some of those parts in that discussion.

Highlighted messages about family dynamic of Wagners, plus stuff about possible child abuse, Alaska, custody. Another message about pink bunnies and sprinkls - not really about that. Defense objects leading to bench conference.

She says she bases that they thought it was coded messages because it included reference OKI auto parts. And pink bunnies and sprinkls reference came right as they were talking about parts at the time in February.

Later searched Jake Wagner's phone based on search warrant from BCI agent Ryan Scheiderer.

Showed George with a threatening reaction in text with Jake after their grandfather was robbed.

Limited content on Jake and Angela's phone in April 2016 when the murder happened. Eveslage says very limited for Angela's week leading up to homicides.

Direct examination done - breaking for lunch until 1 p.m. when defense will cross examine.



link: https://twitter.com/jamespilcher

More between Jake and Angela about items he bought and BCI thought it might be parts to make suppressors/silencers

BCI also knew about purchases made by Wagners from Amazon, auto parts stores, etc. There were purchases by Jake and Angela of some of those parts in that discussion.

BBM

That's what I heard also. Jake and Angie bought the parts.

 

[SuziQ]

The family dynamics are strange, but I understand it. I see the all for 1, 1 for all. Yeah, I hate your guts but I'll defend you no matter what because you're my family.

I want to hear George's words. Maybe he half *ssed went along in the beginning, or was drug into it, didn't shoot anyone, and now that the event happened, felt the need/requirement to conceal the event. Ratting out a family member, your own father/mother/brother is a hard thing to do, even if you know it's the right thing to do. He probably wishes he wasn't part of this family. I'm not supporting him in any way..just trying to understand this family dynamic.

Jmho.

I think this is a bit how it went down. Imo.

 

[justtrish]

5/21/17 George 4 interviewed (JW Discovery)

5/12/17 Peterson Rd searches (articles)
5/13/17 Flying W searches (2BPV's found)
5/13/17 Interview Angela (JW Discovery)
5/16/17 Interview Angela (JW Discovery)
5/17/17 Jake interviewed (JW Discovery)
5/21/17 Jake interviewed (JW Discovery)
5/21/17 George 4 interviewed (JW Discovery)
5/21/17 Angela interviews (JW Discovery)
5/21/17 Billy interviewed (JW Discovery)
6/8/17 Days Inn Trash Pull (AW Discovery)
June 9, 2017 - BCI has a Warrant and starts recording the Wagner's. They hear and/or read Chris Graves' communication with them.
Wednesday June 21, 2017 - MSM puts out the DeWine laser focus article.
6/23/17 (Friday) Conklin Neighbor talks to Billy & Jake and states they arrived in 2 vehicles (article)
7/2017 3 possible search warrants in Montana (1 not executed - AW Discovery)
July 7, 2017 - Another 30 day extension granted, on the Warrant to record the Wagners.

I was meaning before they decided to move. They sold items, sold the house, planned the Alaska move for months and in that time there wasn't anything going on that I know of. Just rumor mill maybe, but all these interviews and search warrants were after they sold the house and had the intention to move to Alaska. Billy sure changed his tune about living with the boys and suddenly after the murders, it seems they were ready to play family again. George went right along for the ride too.

I do have a question though. When they did these interviews I was thinking it was on the way back into the US from Alaska. I also thought the wire taps were in the months after they moved back to Ohio. Were these warrants to record for their personal vehicle still that they bugged at the border? I thought they bugged a tractor trailer truck that Jake and George drove. Was that later then?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I totally agree. My comments were not to lessen his role or excuse it at all. So far we aren't seeing really any motive for George other than he is part of the 4 and they stick together. I was just suggesting that we are seeing the possibility that George was not going to go that night and did in fact go along because he feared for Jake.

I think he's just a responsible no matter weather he intended to go, planned it all, only bought parts, or any other role big or small. I just think it helps explain in my mind how he could end up going when this was about custody of Sophia and he isn't even mentioned much to this point. I think the motive of keeping Jake safe makes sense. I couldn't really understand before why Billy would kill Jake, but hearing those text exchanges, I do think the most importance was on the grandkids and the custody documents sorta have a new feel now after just the tone of those texts of Jake not letting Angela do something with Sophia. Maybe those custody documents gave the boys a little pause like what if dad killed Jake so mom could have Sophia. I mean they eliminated every other person in their way and the only other person then in Angela's way of having Sophia was Jake.

So far we aren't seeing really any motive for George other than he is part of the 4 and they stick together.
BBM

Hasn't been much sticking so far that we are seeing. Billy moved out on them and Angie wants to take George and Jakes kids and kick George and Jake to the curb so Billy who hates them can move back in.

Not your definition of a really close family in my books. IMO if I was GW and JW I would be afraid of turning my back with all those knives out. lol

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I totally agree. My comments were not to lessen his role or excuse it at all. So far we aren't seeing really any motive for George other than he is part of the 4 and they stick together. I was just suggesting that we are seeing the possibility that George was not going to go that night and did in fact go along because he feared for Jake.

I think he's just a responsible no matter weather he intended to go, planned it all, only bought parts, or any other role big or small. I just think it helps explain in my mind how he could end up going when this was about custody of Sophia and he isn't even mentioned much to this point. I think the motive of keeping Jake safe makes sense. I couldn't really understand before why Billy would kill Jake, but hearing those text exchanges, I do think the most importance was on the grandkids and the custody documents sorta have a new feel now after just the tone of those texts of Jake not letting Angela do something with Sophia. Maybe those custody documents gave the boys a little pause like what if dad killed Jake so mom could have Sophia. I mean they eliminated every other person in their way and the only other person then in Angela's way of having Sophia was Jake.

So far we aren't seeing really any motive for George other than he is part of the 4 and they stick together.
BBM

Hasn't been much sticking so far that we are seeing. Billy moved out on them and Angie wants to take George and Jakes kids and kick George and Jake to the curb so Billy who hates them can move back in.

Not your definition of a really close family in my books. IMO if I was GW and JW I would be afraid of turning my back with all those knives out. lol

JMO

 

[Myland]

Once again all good points. He didn't say kill, he said "I am going to be their worst nightmare."

Reminds me of Ghostbusters and the giant marshmallow.

JMO

Jmo I thought today with all the build up of recordings at the border they were finally going to have evidence against George. Once again I waited and waited to be told no the recording were not usable.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Have you heard the term keep your friends close and your enemies closer? Don't forget they were close enough to plan and commit mass murder together.

Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, IIRC. George nor Billy have confessed or been convicted yet.

JMo

 

[justtrish]

@sunshineray I'm having issues with posing and quoting posts. I will just tag you and say they did state that before the 4 interviews at the border crossing, they were mirandized.

 

[Myland]

Once again all good points. He didn't say kill, he said "I am going to be their worst nightmare."

Reminds me of Ghostbusters and the giant marshmallow.

JMO

Jmo I thought today with all the build up of recordings at the border they were finally going to have evidence against George. Once again I waited and waited to be told no the recording were not usable.

 

[Chris_p_bacon]

Just a quick question I might have missed all this time. Were there two trips they all made to Alaska. It seems this was a shorter trip and there would not have been enough time for Jake to meet his wife there in alaska. It seems through MSM they were living up there a lot longer than 2 weeks. Or did I miss something. Even though I have the trial on....I frequently have to step away.

 

[Myland]

Jmo I was listening closely to those text messages and watching those dates and thinking the whole time the next text will be George saying something incriminating. At the end of Angela’s texting I was like don’t stop there has to be something with George but no nothing. So disappointed.

 

[justtrish]

So as direct evidence, but because there are conspiracy charges, what ever JW, AW or BW said in those interviews is considered to be as if GWIV said it too? How can that be legal? It would be like 3 people putting words in your mouth? Conspirators being tied together in EVERY little thing they say seems a bit extreme. Is there no common sense applied that the four individuals, one who's remaining silent in his own defense, may know differing accounts of the conspiracy crime? How is the full perspective to be gained by the jurors if 4 can only be thought of as one...in ALL aspects?

These are really just rhetorical questions...out there in the universe haha, not directed at only you.

Finally I can quote and post. I'm having some WS issues this evening.

I think it isn't that they can't be used, it has something to do with conspiracy charges because often words of one are used to make another look bad/good or light they had more or less of a role. Those statements can make the jury think they are less involved.

What is crap about this interview is George lied too. They all 4 lied, but the defense wants to play Jake's at this point to make him look bad and like a liar before he takes the stand. It would bias the jury at this point and that is a protection I think they hold so when Jake tells his story he gets to speak and then the defense can cross examine and ask whatever they want but that would happen at the same time as his testimony.

It would be like playing a statement from George implicating someone else in this crime and wanting to play that to make George look innocent, but of course most people don't say yep I did it.. they deflect, lie, blame others, etc. In a conspiracy they have some guidelines on how this evidence is introduced to protect people and give them the most fair trial.

Jake confessed but what he said lined up with evidence. He will testify and make claims, then the defense can hit him hard about lies he told. The sad part is George has a right to not take the stand and answer for the same lies he told as well. It's his right, but it could appear to make him seem more trustworthy in the eyes of the jury.

Again not a lawyer and just used google and the case law AC referenced to try to make sense of it. They aren't saying it can't and won't be introduced, but there is a way and process and it sounds like it can't be used unless and until Jake takes the stand so he can answer for what was said vs just playing it and saying see all lies.