OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #78

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  • #941
I only know this because I literally was in the store yesterday trying to find my kiddo shoes for basketball. lol I was hoping to not have to drive around to various stores by seeing if the men's would work, but it just isn't possible. The smallest we could find in the men's were 8s and right on the box it says size 9.5 women's. I wish I could have made that work. HA!
I still think Angie was wearing the 10.5. She could have stuffed them with something to make them fit well enough to work. I have did that before when I liked a pair of shoes that were not in my size. You can buy off the internet a soft plastic spacer type thing to put in the toe of the shoes and make them work.

JMO
 
  • #942
Well another long day of Jake and Angie. I am getting really sick of their names.

But we did learn a few things about George. He likes the ladies. Who*****s to be exact. He likes to stay out all night on weekends. Dare I say drinking as CN said? (gasp) No wonder Angie told George he was going to Hell. I believe he could have even been drinking while he was with a who*****e, OMG. After all he is a single man so he has no business running around with women and staying out all night. Or hanging out with Chris, drinking (per CN). If fact she said he was hardly ever around, so much so that she didn't see him much at all, just heard him coming and going from the house, except for the times he was arguing with Jake and Angie, I guess about his philandering ways.

Seriously Beth helped George enormously. When he threatened violence against DeWine and BCI agents Beth said it was a bluff, George was just blowing off steam, and that George was just a blowhard, that he didn't mean what he said. Well let's kick that threatening violence toward law enforcement to the garbage heap. Something Canepa made up to deny him bond. Now we see why when Yost took over the Ohio AG office he fired her and pushed her off on Pike county.

While we are on Canepa, Beth debunked that cultish, enmeshed family theory AC threw out there. But that has been the theme from all the witnesses who are not LE. I think the only reason George stayed was because he needed a babysitter for his son. Otherwise he would have left that bat shyte crazy mom and brother of his and moved into his own house long before Angie and Jake killed an entire family.

George told them he was taking his son and moving back to Ohio, whether AW and JW came or not. Billy had already gone back, probably having had enough of Angie and Jake and their, let's see how did Beth put it, "High and mighty ways." I could see how that judgmental attitude could wear on a persons nerves. (one reason my Bible thumping son is only allowed to visit me for one hour. lol)

On the other hand I think Beth did great!!!!!! Very smart, steady, firm young lady who would not allow the defense to twist her words. She said what she meant and meant what she said. I very much admired her, especially when she walked out of that courtroom with her head held high. She went through hell with Jake and Angie and came out alive and it would appear very stable.

But Beth helped George a lot. She didn't really have anything bad to say about him other than he yelled, but apparently that is the way they discussed things. First she showed how he was away most of the time. He worked through the week and on weekends he left and stayed out late. He hung out with Chris and Randa. He liked the ladies for sure. He told off colored jokes that she didn't approve of but in todays world we have an ex leader who told a reporter in an interview how he would grab women's private parts, and even strict Christians called it "just locker room talk" and voted for him anyway.

But coming from an Amish community she probably didn't appreciate those jokes. She told how he fought with Angie and Jake over a lot of things, meaning he did not go along with their bat shyte crazy ideas at all. How he told them flat out he was taking his son and moving back to Ohio, showing he and Billy was not part of a cultish, enmeshed family. Chris said basically the same thing, that George didn't stay home much.

There was some very disturbing things in her testimony though.

How at first she thought Jake and Angie were a couple. Don't want to get into that sickness but I was hoping the defense would ask her why she thought that.

The fact that Jake slept with SW in the bed between Beth and him or with him between Beth and SW. Screams pedophile to me and shows why he was so determined that Hannah would not take SW from him. And why he even tried to get KR, perhaps to groom a girl from infancy for his pleasure. I would also add as more evidence that he was a pedophile, Beth testified she and him only had sex once a week. I could believe that if he was an older man married for 20 years with a houseful of kids. But a young man like that, newly married, he shows he definitely was not attracted to Beth who at 25 was too old for him.

That he believed Angie over his wife, similar to him believing Angie over Hannah. Even to the point that he believed Angie when she said Beth molested SW. I can't even imagine how that poor girl felt when AW and JW confronted her with that. Beth must have been horrified. Especially when Jake and Angie threatened to tie her up, beat her to death with a ball bat behind the barn, then burn the barn down. I noticed she did not tell BCI agents that she believed that Jake and Angie were just bluffing when they threatened her with violence. Huge difference between AW and JW and George in Beth's mind.

And once again we see the pattern of Jake picking vulnerable, naive girls who have been sexually molested as a child.

Many things about her testimony concerning Jake and Angie was very disturbing.

But she made George come off looking like a normal young man, who went out with girls, stayed out all night and told off color jokes and hung out with his uncle drinking. Pretty common for young men everywhere.

JMO
Staying out late at night, telling offensive jokes and talking about prostitutes were the most damaging statements she made about George. Her testimony about JW and AW though, made them look even more evil than we already knew.
 
  • #943
If AW was at the crime scene, I wonder who stayed home with the kids?
I am not 100% set on whether AW was there or not. However, my feeling is that if she did stay home.....she used the kids as her excuse. It definitely wasn't because she loved them so much and was concerned for their safety. She doesn't have the capacity to love. She used them like everyone else in her life. It gained her something. She didn't give back. No one ever gained anything positive or beneficial from knowing AW.

I can easily see her giving them Benadryl and going to each crime scene to ensure it was done to her specifications and because it would likely give her immense pleasure to either watch or take part. If she was there then I'd say it likely that she made her presence known to at least HR and DR before they were murdered. She seems like the type. Just vicious and petty. I'm not very religious but I will say a prayer that she dies in prison 1 week before she is eligible to be released.
 
  • #944
Are there opinions on where the defense is going with George's weight?
I would like to hear others thoughts but have a lingering wonder if it could relate to weight loss and shoe fit somehow. Does that seem far fetched?

ETA: like he lost weight and the shoe size at the scene is still too tight

I'm just really curious why they keep bringing it up.
ETA: like he lost weight and the shoe size at the scene is still too tight

I think so too.
 
  • #945
GW4 snickering at the mention of he and pops visiting wh0r3s. Maybe he thought she said "horses". His attorneys aren't snickering.
 
  • #946
I haven't followed any other conspiracy type trials this closely so I admit my understanding of this is more limited.

I get the feeling they have to go broad to include everything for all of them because the crimes they committed individually are ALL included and combined to equal the larger conspiracy charge. What one does means all have done (in the eyes of the law) so they have to show it all. They have to give the background on all, the details of Hannah and Jake because that was the motive and even thought George wasn't in that relationship, he was part of the conspiracy to commit the murders and the motive is super important.
Great analysis!

I re-watched AW's guilty plea hearing last night & was startled to hear the charges she confessed to included moving the bodies of CR & GR (a big topic last night, lol). So I rewound it and listened again. Basically the exact same charges as the other three with a couple charges removed.
 
  • #947
Are there opinions on where the defense is going with George's weight?
I would like to hear others thoughts but have a lingering wonder if it could relate to weight loss and shoe fit somehow. Does that seem far fetched?

ETA: like he lost weight and the shoe size at the scene is still too tight.

I'm just really curious why they keep bringing it up.
Interesting observation. According to some google searches (no link provided) feet sometimes become smaller with considerable weight loss. Perhaps defense will call an expert on the subject...and though I am loathe to say this: If the shoe don't fit, you must acquit.
 
  • #948
GW4 snickering at the mention of he and pops visiting wh0r3s. Maybe he thought she said "horses". His attorneys aren't snickering.
Nash did. He & GW both broke out in a big smile as she said it & shared a chuckle.
 
  • #949
I just had a chance to go back and listen to the beginning of the day today where the defense objects and wants Beth's testimony excluded due to them not having her address. They wanted to interview her neighbors. What possible reason would they have for wanting to interview her current neighbors? She does not live were she did when they were in Alaska or in Ohio so what would her neighbors know now that could impeach testimony she gives?

I feel it was a scare tactic because clearly she is afraid of the W's and doesn't want her address made public. Is it routine for lawyers to interview neighbors of every witness?
 
  • #950
I just had a chance to go back and listen to the beginning of the day today where the defense objects and wants Beth's testimony excluded due to them not having her address. They wanted to interview her neighbors. What possible reason would they have for wanting to interview her current neighbors? She does not live were she did when they were in Alaska or in Ohio so what would her neighbors know now that could impeach testimony she gives?

I feel it was a scare tactic because clearly she is afraid of the W's and doesn't want her address made public. Is it routine for lawyers to interview neighbors of every witness?
Probably to discredit her character.
 
  • #951
Well another long day of Jake and Angie. I am getting really sick of their names.

But we did learn a few things about George. He likes the ladies. Who*****s to be exact. He likes to stay out all night on weekends. Dare I say drinking as CN said? (gasp) No wonder Angie told George he was going to Hell. I believe he could have even been drinking while he was with a who*****e, OMG. After all he is a single man so he has no business running around with women and staying out all night. Or hanging out with Chris, drinking (per CN). If fact she said he was hardly ever around, so much so that she didn't see him much at all, just heard him coming and going from the house, except for the times he was arguing with Jake and Angie, I guess about his philandering ways.

Seriously Beth helped George enormously. When he threatened violence against DeWine and BCI agents Beth said it was a bluff, George was just blowing off steam, and that George was just a blowhard, that he didn't mean what he said. Well let's kick that threatening violence toward law enforcement to the garbage heap. Something Canepa made up to deny him bond. Now we see why when Yost took over the Ohio AG office he fired her and pushed her off on Pike county.

While we are on Canepa, Beth debunked that cultish, enmeshed family theory AC threw out there. But that has been the theme from all the witnesses who are not LE. I think the only reason George stayed was because he needed a babysitter for his son. Otherwise he would have left that bat shyte crazy mom and brother of his and moved into his own house long before Angie and Jake killed an entire family.

George told them he was taking his son and moving back to Ohio, whether AW and JW came or not. Billy had already gone back, probably having had enough of Angie and Jake and their, let's see how did Beth put it, "High and mighty ways." I could see how that judgmental attitude could wear on a persons nerves. (one reason my Bible thumping son is only allowed to visit me for one hour. lol)

On the other hand I think Beth did great!!!!!! Very smart, steady, firm young lady who would not allow the defense to twist her words. She said what she meant and meant what she said. I very much admired her, especially when she walked out of that courtroom with her head held high. She went through hell with Jake and Angie and came out alive and it would appear very stable.

But Beth helped George a lot. She didn't really have anything bad to say about him other than he yelled, but apparently that is the way they discussed things. First she showed how he was away most of the time. He worked through the week and on weekends he left and stayed out late. He hung out with Chris and Randa. He liked the ladies for sure. He told off colored jokes that she didn't approve of but in todays world we have an ex leader who told a reporter in an interview how he would grab women's private parts, and even strict Christians called it "just locker room talk" and voted for him anyway.

But coming from an Amish community she probably didn't appreciate those jokes. She told how he fought with Angie and Jake over a lot of things, meaning he did not go along with their bat shyte crazy ideas at all. How he told them flat out he was taking his son and moving back to Ohio, showing he and Billy was not part of a cultish, enmeshed family. Chris said basically the same thing, that George didn't stay home much.

There was some very disturbing things in her testimony though.

How at first she thought Jake and Angie were a couple. Don't want to get into that sickness but I was hoping the defense would ask her why she thought that.

The fact that Jake slept with SW in the bed between Beth and him or with him between Beth and SW. Screams pedophile to me and shows why he was so determined that Hannah would not take SW from him. And why he even tried to get KR, perhaps to groom a girl from infancy for his pleasure. I would also add as more evidence that he was a pedophile, Beth testified she and him only had sex once a week. I could believe that if he was an older man married for 20 years with a houseful of kids. But a young man like that, newly married, he shows he definitely was not attracted to Beth who at 25 was too old for him.

That he believed Angie over his wife, similar to him believing Angie over Hannah. Even to the point that he believed Angie when she said Beth molested SW. I can't even imagine how that poor girl felt when AW and JW confronted her with that. Beth must have been horrified. Especially when Jake and Angie threatened to tie her up, beat her to death with a ball bat behind the barn, then burn the barn down. I noticed she did not tell BCI agents that she believed that Jake and Angie were just bluffing when they threatened her with violence. Huge difference between AW and JW and George in Beth's mind.

And once again we see the pattern of Jake picking vulnerable, naive girls who have been sexually molested as a child.

Many things about her testimony concerning Jake and Angie was very disturbing.

But she made George come off looking like a normal young man, who went out with girls, stayed out all night and told off color jokes and hung out with his uncle drinking. Pretty common for young men everywhere.

JMO
It seems JW and George are showing to be hebephiles, not pedophiles.
 
  • #952
Interesting observation. According to some google searches (no link provided) feet sometimes become smaller with considerable weight loss. Perhaps defense will call an expert on the subject...and though I am loathe to say this: If the shoe don't fit, you must acquit.

Whatever it is about his weight is what they seem to be waiting to use as key defense. They have asked every witness about his weight.

-I don't recall clothing mentioned
-shoes
-could it be medication related? Example: take the angle of George was on XYZ causing weight gain due to his own mental trauma and duress

What are the other options?
 
  • #953
Interesting observation. According to some google searches (no link provided) feet sometimes become smaller with considerable weight loss. Perhaps defense will call an expert on the subject...and though I am loathe to say this: If the shoe don't fit, you must acquit.
I, personally, can attest to feet shrinkage. After I lost a substantial amount I was then able to wear many different child size shoes.
 
  • #954
  • #955
Whatever it is about his weight is what they seem to be waiting to use as key defense. They have asked every witness about his weight.

-I don't recall clothing mentioned
-shoes
-could it be medication related? Example: take the angle of George was on XYZ causing weight gain due to his own mental trauma and duress

What are the other options?
Since you're here: Are we allowed to use information, etc from the Topix site since it's been mentioned a few times and elaborated on what it is in court and on the court records?
TIA
 
  • #956
Whatever it is about his weight is what they seem to be waiting to use as key defense. They have asked every witness about his weight.

-I don't recall clothing mentioned
-shoes
-could it be medication related? Example: take the angle of George was on XYZ causing weight gain due to his own mental trauma and duress

What are the other options?
Someone who CN testified was as big as CN could not climb through a trailer window, or move easily down the hallway of a trailer house dragging a body. Big as CN was if he had his arms under a dead persons arms or holding the feet, dragging the deceased, his arms and shoulders would have been wider than the hallway.

Plus we do not know how narrow the hallway going into Hannahs room was.

All I can think of.

JMO
 
  • #957
Someone who CN testified was as big as CN could not climb through a trailer window, or move easily down the hallway of a trailer house dragging a body. Big as CN was if he had his arms under a dead persons arms or holding the feet, dragging the deceased, his arms and shoulders would have been wider than the hallway.

Plus we do not know how narrow the hallway going into Hannahs room was.

All I can think of.

JMO
Trailer hallways are narrow, especially in older trailers.
 
  • #958
Whatever it is about his weight is what they seem to be waiting to use as key defense. They have asked every witness about his weight.

-I don't recall clothing mentioned
-shoes
-could it be medication related? Example: take the angle of George was on XYZ causing weight gain due to his own mental trauma and duress

What are the other options?
I think earlier they tried to imply G4 was too big to fit through the hallway in Csr's trailer and move Csr's and GR's bodies to the bedroom.
 
  • #959
Turbulent morning/day. Of course. I'm just now getting to the first break, on BethA's testimony. O.O What an ordeal. I noticed her hands trembled at times. She may have been naive but she knew to get out of that house. Cannot get over the "friend" who said to call him any time if she needed help. Then; Calm down little lady, I'm sure he's only joking. (What a great friend!) She's fortunate to be alive, jm2.
Yeah not only that but the Pastor who stood up in front of the congregation and vouched for the Wagners. And it seems no one did a simple google search on any of their names. I am sure an article about the Pike county murders would have came up.

I am so glad finally someone's parent stood up and did the right thing for once in all this. Elizabeth's Dad Even though divorced from her mom drove all the way from Texas and came up with the Walmart rescue plan. I am so glad she got away when she did.
 
  • #960
Whatever it is about his weight is what they seem to be waiting to use as key defense. They have asked every witness about his weight.

-I don't recall clothing mentioned
-shoes
-could it be medication related? Example: take the angle of George was on XYZ causing weight gain due to his own mental trauma and duress

What are the other options?
He was very big at the time of the murders, so the defense might be moving in the direction that obesity or health issues would have prevented him from being present at the murders. That still won't eliminate him from conspiracy though.
 
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