OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #79

[Cool Cats]

So is pre-trial statements allowed to be used as evidence? According to this attorney Nash places GW4 at the murder scene. Nash also states to protect Jake, not the other victims. If I was on the jury, I would interpret this as GW4 wanted to make certain only Rhoden family members were murdered and not his brother Jake.

No defense attorney places George at the murder scenes. The attorneys admit it is Jake placing George at the murder scenes as stated in Jake's proffer but they say Jake is a liar and mentally not right. Dropped on his head as a kid. It was in a Motion posted on here.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

And, IF George wanted to break away from the family and him and his son move elsewhere (as his attorneys are trying to lead the jury to believe), then why didn't he??!!

What held you back, George? Was it because you'd lose your built-in babysitter (your mommy)? Was it because you would now have to pay your own bills? Was it because even you were too scared of YOUR own family that you didn't leave? Was it because it would be less likely, that being out on your own and being responsible for your child, that you would have to change some of your own alleged staying out late at night, etc? Was it because you wouldn't have mommy there to instruct/direct you in sooooo many aspects of your personal life, including your sexual relations? And I could go on and on....
But point being, George, IF you wanted to leave/break away from the rest of your family so bad, as your defense says/presents, then WHY didn't you???

Was it because you'd lose your built-in babysitter (your mommy)
BBM
Anyone who has young children knows the fears of putting a child in daycare with all the incidents of horrible things happening to children in daycare. Divorced parents know the fear of an ex kidnapping their child from daycare. It has been apparent all though this that George loves his son so I think he would have had those same fears we all have. I never allowed my son to attend daycare, I took him to the office with me. George did not have that option, he could not take his son out on the road with him.

There is also the fact he was an over the road truck driver gone weeks at a time. What daycare does any of us know that would accept a child and keep that child for 24/7 for weeks until his father got home? Plus that would have been outrageously expensive. Even hiring a nanny would have been out of his price range. Plus again you are trusting a stranger and all that accompanies that with your child 24/7. I can see why he didn't do that, I didn't do it either when my child was young.

Could he have gotten a different job? Maybe. But that area does not have a lot of well paying jobs available. So how could he pay for his own house and utilities and a babysitter while he was working at a minimum wage job?

He was stuck right where he was because of his love for his son. His mother was the only solution to a 24/7 weeks at a time babysitter.

JMO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Was it because you'd lose your built-in babysitter (your mommy)
BBM
Anyone who has young children knows the fears of putting a child in daycare with all the incidents of horrible things happening to children in daycare. Divorced parents know the fear of an ex kidnapping their child from daycare. It has been apparent all though this that George loves his son so I think he would have had those same fears we all have. I never allowed my son to attend daycare, I took him to the office with me. George did not have that option, he could not take his son out on the road with him.

There is also the fact he was an over the road truck driver gone weeks at a time. What daycare does any of us know that would accept a child and keep that child for 24/7 for weeks until his father got home? Plus that would have been outrageously expensive. Even hiring a nanny would have been out of his price range. Plus again you are trusting a stranger and all that accompanies that with your child 24/7. I can see why he didn't do that, I didn't do it either when my child was young.

Could he have gotten a different job? Maybe. But that area does not have a lot of well paying jobs available. So how could he pay for his own house and utilities and a babysitter while he was working at a minimum wage job?

He was stuck right where he was because of his love for his son. His mother was the only solution to a 24/7 weeks at a time babysitter.

JMO

If George "loves" his son, it's a twisted love because he severed the tie Bulvine had with his mother. That's not love. That's sick. As an over the road trucker, his son could have spent the time he was on the road with Tabitha, his mother. That's the solution to the childcare problem, shared custody.

 

[A Truth Seeker]

Bingo!!!!

Hello - I saw one of your previous posts where you said you believed GW4 would be dead had it not been for DeWine's laser-focused comment. I found that interesting. What led you to that conclusion?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I've read this many times, but it just really sunk in. GW4 has nothing to lose by pleading not guilty. The only deal GW4 could make, IMO, was taking the DP off the table. JW did that for him. Now GW4 can take his chance at trial with the possibility of a not guilty verdict.

It's possible this could have been pre planned. The family appeared to discuss everything.

Can one imagine Jake's ex-wife living in that home for a few months after hearing about the murder of the Rhoden family, and at what point did she realize they were possibly guilty. The fear, the stress she had to go through, I just want to protect her. And I have to believe she is stressed over the possibility GW4 could be released.

I try to make a conscious effort to release positive energy daily. There are times when I just can't.

I don't think Beth has anything to fear if George gets released. He doesn't know where she is and she seems to move around from state to state a lot.

I don't even think Tabby has anything to fear from him. I think if George is released he will make a deal with Tabby to see his son and disappear from public sight. I think he has had enough of being on trial. It is going to be hard for him to rebuild his life or even get a job.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Actually GW4 could bring one of them in as an alibi. Maybe even convince her that she was with him on that night. (GW4 and working girl) However, if I were on the jury, I would be convinced GW4 was involved in the murder of this family by what evidence we have thus far.

What evidence? If you would list out what you see as evidence against only George, kind of separate the gold from all the dirt, that would be so helpful to me and possibly others. TIA

As an aside there was a motion filed by the defense Friday for a court paid expert. I guess you could say a prostitute is an expert of sorts. LMAO

JMO

 

[LMDlong]

I don't think Beth has anything to fear if George gets released. He doesn't know where she is and she seems to move around from state to state a lot.

I don't even think Tabby has anything to fear from him. I think if George is released he will make a deal with Tabby to see his son and disappear from public sight. I think he has had enough of being on trial. It is going to be hard for him to rebuild his life or even get a job.

JMO

FW will put him to work and foot the bills for him if he gets released . JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

So George was there when the murder truck was purchased. Along with Jake and Angie. Was Billy there? Who signed the title? Looking forward to learning all of that. So one more instance of all 4 Wagners involved in the planning of the massacre and the acquisition of the means to do it.

Who signed the title?
The owner of the truck, Silas W.

So one more instance of all 4 Wagners involved in the planning of the massacre and the acquisition of the means to do it.
Or maybe he was just told they were buying a truck to use on the farm. Or that Billy wanted to buy a truck for himself since Billy is the one who told his cousin he wanted to buy it.

Going with family to buy a vehicle does not make you a murderer. If so I would be in prison since I have went with several family members to buy vehicles.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

If George "loves" his son, it's a twisted love because he severed the tie Bulvine had with his mother. That's not love. That's sick. As an over the road trucker, his son could have spent the time he was on the road with Tabitha, his mother. That's the solution to the childcare problem, shared custody.

Unfortunately that happens many times every day in this country. One parent refuses to allow the other parent to see their child. I am sure we all know someone like that.

I agree that is not putting the child's best interests first, but as I said, unfortunately it has happened millions of times in this country.

JMO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Who signed the title?
The owner of the truck, Silas W.

So one more instance of all 4 Wagners involved in the planning of the massacre and the acquisition of the means to do it.
Or maybe he was just told they were buying a truck to use on the farm. Or that Billy wanted to buy a truck for himself since Billy is the one who told his cousin he wanted to buy it.

Going with family to buy a vehicle does not make you a murderer. If so I would be in prison since I have went with several family members to buy vehicles.

JMO

I mean, who signed the title to take possession of the truck when the truck was purchased? Was Billy there, making it all 4 buying the murder truck?

It makes no sense that the Wagners would buy a truck for the farm, modify it to hide two people in an ambush, and then give the truck away. This truck was definitely used in the massacre. And it was modified for that use. You think George didn't ask "hey, why are we screwing up this truck?" if he had not been part of the planning at the kitchen table decision to kill whoever was at the Rhoden homes? Of course people go along to look at a new vehicle or purchase one. But not every vehicle becomes a necessary tool in a plot to massacre 8 people. It's one thing to knock down individual points where it's possible to argue that something monstrous (buying a truck to facilitate mass murder) is actual something people do every day. Yes, families go look at vehicles. And then don't use them to kill 8 people. A conspiracy trial is not about each action taken separately. It's about how a group of people work together, doing different tasks--sometimes alone, sometimes in pairs, sometimes all together--to carry out a plan that involves all of them. Charles Manson didn't wield a knife at Sharon Tate's home. He sent others to do that. That's a conspiracy. He got the death penalty (later moved to life in prison because California's law changed). I see that you want evidence of George acting alone regarding the murders, but that's not what Aggravated Murder or Burglary or Conspiracy involve. He just needs to act in furtherance of the conspiracy or aid in it to be guilty.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Hello - I saw one of your previous posts where you said you believed GW4 would be dead had it not been for DeWine's laser-focused comment. I found that interesting. What led you to that conclusion?

All those insurance claims Angie had before. She was paying for life insurance on George and Jake every month. But as has been testified that Jake was Angie's favorite son. He could do no wrong in her eyes.

But George was another matter entirely. He fought with Angie over everything. She took Jake's side against him even when she knew Jake was lying. She lied to Billy when Jake did something wrong blaming it all on George so Jake would not get punished. She told George he was going to Hell if he didn't stop drinking and staying out all night with I assume, women who were Who**es in her eyes. This all has been testified to by Samantha S. Chris N, Randa H and Beth A.

So I can easily see Angie keeping that life insurance on George in case she needed money.

Beth A testified she thought Jake and Angie were a couple the first few times she saw them in court. I think Angie's dream was to get rid of George (maybe with a fatal hunting "accident") so his son was all hers, then send Billy back to Ohio to FW so she had Jake, SW and BW all to herself. Her dream life.

But all that ended at the MT border and when DeWine put out that laser focus statement on the W's. She couldn't arrange a fatal "Accident" for George after that without questions.
JMO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Unfortunately that happens many times every day in this country. One parent refuses to allow the other parent to see their child. I am sure we all know someone like that.

I agree that is not putting the child's best interests first, but as I said, unfortunately it has happened millions of times in this country.

JMO

Yes, and it's not "love" that prompts this behavior.

 

[CIA Team Member]

I wonder if this forum reflects the way the jury thinks. Half of them think George is guilty and the other half doesn't?

If so we could be looking at a hung jury.

JMO

This is my personal guess, so far, but we still have many weeks left to hope justice system prevails.

 

[Myland]

What evidence? If you would list out what you see as evidence against only George, kind of separate the gold from all the dirt, that would be so helpful to me and possibly others. TIA

As an aside there was a motion filed by the defense Friday for a court paid expert. I guess you could say a prostitute is an expert of sorts. LMAO

JMO

Jmo it may be about Ew brain condition. I found it odd she stated brain cells died, but no hospitalization no medicine. A young girl going to er or hospital with this condition would need some medical investigation to find cause. This condition I would think would be very concerning at her age. She said it was in Jan 2020 but due to Covid they sent her home. I work in healthcare and I don’t remember hospitals at least on east coast turning away patients in Jan 2020. Jmo

 

[Cool Cats]

ow does it benefit Jake to lie is my question.

Jake did everything he could to protect George in his proffer. Jake admitted to killing FR, HHG, DR, CR & HR. Jake named Billy as the killer of CR, GR, and KR. And, according to Jake, GW WAS there and he was supposed to take the first shot but he didn't.

The prosecution has conceded George did not shoot/kill anyone *based on Jake's proffer. That stipulation "based on Jake's proffer" locks Jake in while leaving the door open in case new evidence shows something different. Once the prosecution made that concession, GW's defense used it to their advantage to say "George didn't shoot anyone, George wasn't even there.

But here's the thing I don't understand about the claims of Jake lying. We had evidence but we didn't know the story of what actually happened, how they planned & carried it off. We had so many questions. Without Jake's confession, the surviving families would never have known what happened to their loved ones. Justice is crucial but it's also must consider the importance of getting answers for the families.

I cannot imagine any person who has followed this case for 7 years doesn't want to hear what happened. Jake's testimony will fill in so many missing blanks. I have my own suspicions about exactly how truthful he was on a few details s hungry as everyone posting here is for information, I find it ridiculous to discount his testimony.

I know it’s been mentioned several times so this is just a reminder: at the beginning of every thread there’s link to another thread containing all the media collected & saved by dedicated members. It holds a wealth of information.

Just an FYI to anyone doing searches.

OH - 8 Family Members Murdered, Pike Co., Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION*

Please post links to media, articles, photos, timelines etc. here relating to the case of the murder of 8 members of the Rhoden Family of Piketon, OH. No discussion, please. Link to WS Rules Link to WS Copyright Rules Thank you!

www.websleuths.com

Your Quote:
Jake did everything he could to protect George in his proffer. Jake admitted to killing FR, HHG, DR, CR & HR. Jake named Billy as the killer of CR, GR, and KR. And, according to Jake, GW WAS there and he was supposed to take the first shot but he didn't.

*********************************************************************************************************

It doesn't make any sense to me that Jake is trying to protect George in his proffer by saying George was at the crime scenes. To protect George he would say George stayed home and knew nothing.

Placing George at the crime scenes will get him a guilty verdict. If that jury believes George went along on the murder spree, they will most likely convict him. How could they not?

Jake is putting George in prison by saying he went along on the murders, was "guarding" Chris Jr's door, was trying to shoot Chris SR. but couldn't see over the suppressor, was moving Chris and Gary's bodies, bought the murder truck, modified the murder truck, and was hiding in the murder truck, etc....

Without Jake's testimony George would have a tiny chance of being acquitted of murder. Jake did that deal for Jake. Jake's trial was 4 months away and he knew he would end up with the DP. Jake was scared shirtless over it. George was the one who had a tiny chance to beat the charges - espescially with such tenacious lawyers - until Jake then Angela threw him under the bus to save themselves.

I don't see enough evidence against George to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he is guilty of murder without Jake's testimony and leading BCI to the truck and guns. Jake's testimony confirms the prosecution's evidence which the prosecution needs, badly, from how the trial is going so far.

George having a lifestyle that is very enmeshed with Angela and Jake - including all their shared money cards and bank accounts - is not proof that he committed 8 murders.

Our outspoken precious @RAISINISBACK helped me re-think it. So glad you are doing well Raisin, and on the thread. And I enjoy arguing our differences in opinions.

I still do not believe Angie went with them, but we can disagree, that's cool.

 

[CIA Team Member]

And, IF George wanted to break away from the family and him and his son move elsewhere (as his attorneys are trying to lead the jury to believe), then why didn't he??!!

What held you back, George? Was it because you'd lose your built-in babysitter (your mommy)? Was it because you would now have to pay your own bills? Was it because even you were too scared of YOUR own family that you didn't leave? Was it because it would be less likely, that being out on your own and being responsible for your child, that you would have to change some of your own alleged staying out late at night, etc? Was it because you wouldn't have mommy there to instruct/direct you in sooooo many aspects of your personal life, including your sexual relations? And I could go on and on....
But point being, George, IF you wanted to leave/break away from the rest of your family so bad, as your defense says/presents, then WHY didn't you???

This case perfectly showcases what co-dependency is; seems generational.

AW learned illicit/illegal behaviors from someone. Billy learned directly from mommy dearest and daddy and most likely grandparents. And the AW and Billy Wagner family unit were passing down the continuous behaviors to their children.
JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I mean, who signed the title to take possession of the truck when the truck was purchased? Was Billy there, making it all 4 buying the murder truck?

It makes no sense that the Wagners would buy a truck for the farm, modify it to hide two people in an ambush, and then give the truck away. This truck was definitely used in the massacre. And it was modified for that use. You think George didn't ask "hey, why are we screwing up this truck?" if he had not been part of the planning at the kitchen table decision to kill whoever was at the Rhoden homes? Of course people go along to look at a new vehicle or purchase one. But not every vehicle becomes a necessary tool in a plot to massacre 8 people. It's one thing to knock down individual points where it's possible to argue that something monstrous (buying a truck to facilitate mass murder) is actual something people do every day. Yes, families go look at vehicles. And then don't use them to kill 8 people. A conspiracy trial is not about each action taken separately. It's about how a group of people work together, doing different tasks--sometimes alone, sometimes in pairs, sometimes all together--to carry out a plan that involves all of them. Charles Manson didn't wield a knife at Sharon Tate's home. He sent others to do that. That's a conspiracy. He got the death penalty (later moved to life in prison because California's law changed). I see that you want evidence of George acting alone regarding the murders, but that's not what Aggravated Murder or Burglary or Conspiracy involve. He just needs to act in furtherance of the conspiracy or aid in it to be guilty.

Okay, let me see if I can explain this.

When you go to buy a vehicle, from an individual or a car lot, the title of said vehicle is in whoever owns the vehicles name. So the owner of the vehicle signs the back of the title. That was Silas W.

As an example to clarify:
I own a vehicle. At that point the title to my vehicle is in my name. My name is on the front of the title as the owner of the vehicle. You come to me and give me money to purchase the vehicle. I then sign my name on the back of the title and give you the signed title and the keys to the vehicle and wish you luck as you drive off in your newly purchased vehicle.

So as I said Silas W signed the title as the owner of the truck which was purchased.

The title is supposed to then be taken to a tag agent and be changed over into the new owners name. This is not always done. I suspect Billy or Angie never changed that title over so it remained in Silas W's name. Billy then gave it to Katy W who took the title to the tag agent the next day and changed it into her name.

I hope this helps to clarify this.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Yes, and it's not "love" that prompts this behavior.

I agree.

 

[Myland]

Okay, let me see if I can explain this.

When you go to buy a vehicle, from an individual or a car lot, the title of said vehicle is in whoever owns the vehicles name. So the owner of the vehicle signs the back of the title. That was Silas W.

As an example to clarify:
I own a vehicle. At that point the title to my vehicle is in my name. My name is on the front of the title as the owner of the vehicle. You come to me and give me money to purchase the vehicle. I then sign my name on the back of the title and give you the signed title and the keys to the vehicle and wish you luck as you drive off in your newly purchased vehicle.

So as I said Silas W signed the title as the owner of the truck which was purchased.

The title is supposed to then be taken to a tag agent and be changed over into the new owners name. This is not always done. I suspect Billy or Angie never changed that title over so it remained in Silas W's name. Billy then gave it to Katy W who took the title to the tag agent the next day and changed it into her name.

I hope this helps to clarify this.

JMO

Jmo I’ve heard it called jumped titles. Which is illegal but not beyond what they would do jmo

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Your Quote:
Jake did everything he could to protect George in his proffer. Jake admitted to killing FR, HHG, DR, CR & HR. Jake named Billy as the killer of CR, GR, and KR. And, according to Jake, GW WAS there and he was supposed to take the first shot but he didn't.

*********************************************************************************************************

It doesn't make any sense to me that Jake is trying to protect George in his proffer by saying George was at the crime scenes. To protect George he would say George stayed home and knew nothing.

Jake is putting George in prison by saying he went along on the murders, was "guarding" Chris Jr's door, was hiding in the truck, was trying to shoot Chris SR. but couldn't see over the suppressor, was moving Chris and Gary's bodies....etc....

Without Jake's testimony George would have a tiny chance of being acquitted of murder. Jake did that deal for Jake. Jake's trial was 4 months away and he knew he would end up with the DP. George was the one who had a tiny chance to beat the charges - espescially with such tenacious lawyers - until Jake then Angela threw him under the bus to save themselves.

I agree 100%. Jake was not about to sacrifice himself for anyone. Once again he was trying to shove partial blame off on George. the story of Jake's life.

Jmo