OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #79

[Niner]

Yes, however, I will not be able to post any am tweets until around 12:00 pm ET.

Oh that sounds good. I shall do the morning tweets up to lunch. And then you can take over & I will be in bed at my correct time!

 

[Myland]

Jmo I watched all of the testimony of Ea. She seemed extremely rehearsed and the phrasing she had seemed to mimic court phrasing. Jmo but is this the testimony of threatening the lives of dewine and the investigator and reader? Or do we have actual recordings?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I read last night the prosecution has approximately 2 more weeks of presentations. I don't know if that's based on a 6 hour day (and Court out Thursday) but I would think it's a good estimation.

I wonder how many witnesses the defense has. I'd really like to know if GW maintains friends outside the family. I'm talking actual friends, the kind you go out with, go hunting with, help each other with projects, sit around a bonfire. I know in her Montana interview, AW said she didn't have any friends she talked to on a regular basis. She said she was too busy with the grandkids and raising dogs (or something like that).

Yesterday, in E's testimony, she said they always went anywhere & everywhere as a group, even short trips to the corner market. I hope the jury caught that.

I am betting the jury caught her testimony that George went out on weekends and stayed out all night partying. She also said George had "yucky" friends he hung out with. Oh and he liked to go out with "who***es". But Beth being raised in an Amish community she may have thought women who wore skimpy clothing or who hung out partying with the guys were, as was said in the old days "loose".

IMO she made George come off as a normal guy who worked hard, played hard and told some off color jokes. That is young men everywhere. Oh and he yelled and argued with Angie and Jake. I guess over his philandering ways since CN said Angie told George he was going to Hell for the way he lived.

I would be more concerned with why Beth believed Angie and Jake were a couple with a child the first few times she saw them in church. That is what is disturbing, not Georges partying with girls.

JMO

 

[justtrish]

I am looking forward to FW and RW on the stand.

JMHO,.....EAs testimony was truthful and powerful. I'm so glad she held it together and didn't let the defense rattle her. I agree with whoever said she set the tone for that interview.

I'd like to know what drew her to JW.

It sounded to me like Jake was different during the dating period. Sounds like they went on dates just her and Jake and it was their intent or she thought it was the intent to date for a while then when they got engaged it doesn't sound like she had met the rest of the family other than seeing them at church and maybe once or twice going to their house. It was during the engagement that the Ws decided to move to Missouri and so she opted to get married to Jake sooner and move with them. I think she just believed what she saw of him and unfortunately most of that interaction was not with his family. Little did she know what would happen as soon as the I do's were said. How romatic right? Give me your phone and passwords SSN and all documents. It was said the wedding night was in a hotel and then the following day the W's minus Beth left for Missouri and she flew down a week later because something was flagged with her passport or something she would need to drive through Canada.

I think she was naïve and believed Jake was someone else until the literal wedding night when she saw an immediate change.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I am looking forward to FW and RW on the stand.

JMHO,.....EAs testimony was truthful and powerful. I'm so glad she held it together and didn't let the defense rattle her. I agree with whoever said she set the tone for that interview.

I'd like to know what drew her to JW.

I don't think the defense was trying to rattle her. She helped George enormously by showing he was a normal young man who worked all week on the road and partied all weekend with his friends. And that he argued constantly with Angie and Jake. That separated him from his bat shyte crazy mom and brother which did nothing but help him refute that cultish and enmeshed family scenario. Parker did not crowd her space and tried to be as gentle as i think Parker could be since he is an aggressive attorney. He treated her with kid gloves.

I honestly can see George as being away partying and hunting while Jake and Angie sat home and planned the murders of 8 people.

JMO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I felt the worst about the children and EA's description of their treatment, their stress and trauma. It haunts me how damaged those children were. I hope they're in loving, positive homes now and have access to counseling. It tore me up thinking how upset Hanna would be if she knew her daughter was being beaten and badly traumatized.

S was never allowed to process her feelings about her mother's death, she was never allowed to mourn her. JMO, they all deserve the DP for that alone.

I also hope they are with what’s left of their family and have contact with half sibs and cousins.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

What makes Jake Wagner smile when admitting guilty of shooting the women???? (CRAZY)

I would use the term Bat shyte crazy for him and Angie both.

JMO

 

[Tiff23fr]

It was sad, JMO, how the Wagner family treated the young women/girls like "brood mares". The same way they bred horses, potbelly pigs, and various boutique farm animals, they chose these women to mate with the sons in order to have children. Once the children were born, they really had no further use for the young mothers. They had to be trained to perform work, keep the men happy or leave. Any young woman who tried to stand up for herself or show any autonomy was treated as if they needed to be removed from the herd.

George and Jake spoke of wanting partners who were "farm women". They treated their family members as if they were livestock. Hanna Rhoden was a spirited young filly who was independent and not tolerant of control or abuse. That made her a target.

It's probably important to point out that the Wagners behavior and attitudes towards women and family roles isn't typical of families in that area. There are others posting here who can speak to family customs in rural Appalachia better than I, so hopefully some can enlighten us.

The Appalachian culture and its values are typically rooted in family, elders, community, land, hard work ethic, and in some pockets deep religious beliefs. The behavior of protecting family and standing side by side even when family members disagree is also a norm in the region. Inside of every culture exists subcultures that are created based on each family or individuals personal life experience. They are the unwritten rules of how a family or unit operate and are created outside of written rules or laws we are governed by.

This is where ideology for safety, health, wealth and survival are created especially in economically challenged regions. The subculture for the 4 Wagner's became what AW and BW established for the boys based on their own historical experiences of family (Wagners, Carters, and Newcombs) and solutions (illicit activity). This is where as a unit they established their own norms, patterns of operation and beliefs.

As pointed out, neither boy chose to leave. Was this because AW instilled the notion the outside world is so much more dangerous and only she could protect them and their children?

The Appalachian culture is quite beautiful at its core as the care for family, friends and neighbors runs deep. It's a unique trait not easily replicated. If the residents of the hills and hollers know you, they will literally give the shirt off their back to lend a helping hand. If they don't know you, it takes time to trust you. Social Estrangement outside family and local community is a real facet in pockets of the region. If you are an outsider and break trust, you are typically no longer welcome. A unique angle to this in Appalachian culture is this rule does not typically apply to blood/family. Family is most generally always welcomed back home, and forgiveness is traditionally reserved for loved ones. The female victims here were not viewed as loved ones. They were not extended grace or forgiveness.

A unique aspect to Appalachia due to the family bonds is there is greater influence from elder family members and their life experiences as well. While this is can be valuable, it can cause units to be stuck in the past with only a fear of history repeating itself.

The encouragement to go into the outside world to learn, explore and grow as your own has evolved over the decades, but there are still subcultures in Appalachia where it is discouraged and no outsiders are trusted. I feel the R/G/M families and the local community showed us the lack of trust via the reaction to news outlets and LE that we observed in the early days. Can we blame them if we put ourselves in their shoes? Their family was gone, the world they felt safe in was disrupted and suddenly they are expected to trust the strangers coming in? Past strangers in these communities brought threats to land, and ripped apart local economies as legislation eradicated lifestyles due mostly to agriculture and environmental legislation. People are seen as coming in to take and disrupt, not help or give back.

To get to the specifics of this family, according to testimony AW experienced at the hands of her father abuse which triggered her to go into the military. I feel she at one time wanted out of the culture and behavior patterns of her family. Her mom stated she wanted to get away from it. I believe the young AW likely did. She did leave. She went into the military.

From what we have learned she was then assaulted in the military. Was this assault different from the type she experienced at the hands of her father which she was escaping or did it lead her to believe it was norm and happened everywhere? It seems it was alarming enough to cause her to return and she came back to her family, back to the trauma she attempted to escape.

In no way do I want to sugar coat Angie or her actions, but outside this forum, outside the crimes, looking solely at Angie, it would not be out of the norm for AW to exhibit protective behaviors that escalated over the years. Angie was a victim as well, but the path she chose for survival was found in illicit activities. Getting away with this for years set the foundation to perpetuate behaviors related to survival coming from illegal means. It ended with murder as HER morally (not legally) acceptable solution to her latest problem.

I feel AW sought others she felt she could control so they couldn't "harm" her or her boys or her grandchildren. All along she was doing the greatest harm.

Her desire to protect herself and her boys in her mind meant limited exposure to a world outside of her. It is likely she grew very paranoid and her behaviors and thoughts snowballed over the years until they became her norm. Keep in mind her behavior was being triggered by past trauma and current state survival was being met via a life of crime. Until late age it sounds the boys only had family to learn from. My guess is they heard many times the world outside is evil and we need to stick together.

One point I would like to be sure to note, is while all females in Appalachia certainly do not experience what we have heard in court regarding abuse, unfortunately many do. It is an unspoken truth. Appalachia falls behind on female equality, independence and empowerment when compared to other parts of the US. Threats to long established gender norms and views are not well accepted.

Females that attempt to break the cycles are often viewed as rebellious. As HR, Tabby, and Beth made decisions that did not fall in line with AW or the family elders, they likely became perceived as such. An educated female, a female of her own views and beliefs was a threat to AW.

This is very important in this family as AW comes across IMO as having a very specific view of gender roles which can be common in the region and specifically rural Appalachia as compared to the more urban Appalachian communities.

The Appalachian culture tends to be very patriarchal and a female that would be perceived as stronger than AW would be a threat to her very existence and role as the Matriarch she desired to become.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Jmo I watched all of the testimony of Ea. She seemed extremely rehearsed and the phrasing she had seemed to mimic court phrasing. Jmo but is this the testimony of threatening the lives of dewine and the investigator and reader? Or do we have actual recordings?

EA told BCI she thought George was just blowing off steam when he said that and she did not think he meant it. She also said Chris N was involved in the conversation. Sounds like a couple of guys drinking and shooting off their mouth when they have had one too many.

JMO

 

[justtrish]

The Appalachian culture and its values are typically rooted in family, elders, community, land, hard work ethic, and in some pockets deep religious beliefs. The behavior of protecting family and standing side by side even when family members disagree is also a norm in the region. Inside of every culture exists subcultures that are created based on each family or individuals personal life experience. They are the unwritten rules of how a family or unit operate and are created outside of written rules or laws we are governed by.

This is where ideology for safety, health, wealth and survival are created especially in economically challenged regions. The subculture for the 4 Wagner's became what AW and BW established for the boys based with their own historical experiences of family (Wagners, Carters, and Newcombs) and solutions (illicit activity). This is where as a unit they established their own norms and beliefs.

As pointed out, neither boy choose to leave. Was this because AW instilled the notion the outside world is so much more dangerous and only she could protect them and their children?

The Appalachian culture is quite beautiful at its core as the care for family, friends and neighbors runs deep. It's a unique trait not easily replicated. If the residents of the hills and hollers know you, they will literally give the shirt off their back to lend a helping hand. If they don't know you, it takes time to trust you. Social Estrangement outside family and local community is a real facet in pockets of the region. If you are an outsider and break trust, you are typically no longer welcome. A unique angle to this in Appalachian culture is this rule does not typically apply to blood/family. Family is most generally always welcomed back home, and forgiveness is traditionally reserved for loved ones. The female victims here were not viewed as loved ones. They were not extended grace or forgiveness.

A unique aspect to Appalachia due to the family bonds is there is greater influence from elder family members and their life experiences as well. While this is can be valuable, it can cause units to be stuck in the past with only a fear of history repeating itself.

The encouragement to go into the outside world to learn, explore and grow as your own has evolved over the decades, but there are still subcultures in Appalachia where it is discouraged and no outsiders are trusted. I feel the R/G/M families and the local community showed us the lack of trust via the reaction to news outlets and LE that we observed in the early days. Can we blame them if we put ourselves in their shoes? Their family was gone, the world they felt safe in was disrupted and suddenly they are expected to trust the strangers coming in? Past strangers in these communities brought threats to land, and ripped apart local economies as legislation eradicated lifestyles due mostly to agriculture and environmental legislation. People are seen as coming in to take and disrupt, not help or give back.

To get to the specifics of this family, according to testimony AW experienced at the hands of her father abuse which triggered her to go into the military. I feel she at one time wanted out of the culture and behavior patterns of her family. Her mom stated she wanted to get away from it. I believe the young AW likely did. She did leave. She went into the military.

From what we have learned she was then assaulted in the military. Was this assault different from the type she experienced at the hands of her father which she was escaping or did it lead her to believe it was norm and happened everywhere? It seems it was alarming enough to cause her to return and she came back to her family, back to the trauma she attempted to escape.

In no way do I want to sugar coat Angie or her actions, but outside this forum, outside the crimes, looking solely at Angie, it would not be out of the norm for AW to exhibit protective behaviors that escalated over the years. Angie was a victim as well, but the path she chose for survival was found in illicit activities. Getting away with this for years set the foundation to perpetuate behaviors related to survival coming from illegal means. It ended with murder as a morally (not legally) acceptable solution to her latest problem.

I feel AW sought others she felt she could control so they couldn't "harm" her or her boys or her grandchildren. All along she was doing the greatest harm.

Her desire to protect herself and her boys in her mind meant limited exposure to a world outside of her. It is likely she grew very paranoid and her behaviors and thoughts snowballed over the years until they became her norm. Keep in mind her behavior was being triggered by past trauma and current state survival was being met via a life of crime. Until late age it sounds the boys only had family to learn from. My guess is they heard many times the world outside is evil and we need to stick together.

One point I would like to be sure to note, is while all females in Appalachia certainly do not experience what we have heard in court regarding abuse, many do. Appalachia falls behind on female equality, independence and empowerment when compared to other parts of the US. Threats to long established gender norms and views are not well accepted.

Females that attempt to break the cycles are often viewed as rebellious. As HR, Tabby, and Beth made decisions that did not fall in line with AW or the family elders, they likely became perceived as such. An educated female, a female of her own views and beliefs was a threat to AW.

This is very important in this family as AW comes across IMO as having a very specific view of gender roles which can be common in the region and specifically rural Appalachia as compared to the more urban Appalachian communities.

The Appalachian culture tends to be very patriarchal and a female that would be perceived as stronger than AW would be a threat to her very existence and role as the Matriarch she desired to become.

BBM - I think this nails it. When we hear how George yelled at Bulvine about the bad people wanting to take him away, I could just imagine that being Angela when her boys were young. Angela and Billy both had several run ins with LE for various crimes while their boys were young. I can imagine the bad talking about outsiders started young with them also.

 

[Myland]

EA told BCI she thought George was just blowing off steam when he said that and she did not think he meant it. She also said Chris N was involved in the conversation. Sounds like a couple of guys drinking and shooting off their mouth when they have had one too many.

JMO

Jmo if this is the important evidence to show George was most vocal in the plan to take out others, then to me it is very weak. But maybe they have recording. Jmo

 

[justtrish]

Re Beth's interview with BCI.. that interview was right after she fled when they first interviewed her. I think it's reasonable to conclude when you hear people talking about something like that, that it is blowing off steam unless they pull out a notebook and start laying out actual plans. I think Chris N thought the same thing.. just blowing off steam.. haha yeah I'd get a bullet proof bulldozer and bust you out of there. (fish stories comes to mind.. the longer you talk the larger the fish gets lol)

I do think it's eerie now though in hindsight. The fact that this family was even blowing off steam and telling big stories after they committed these horrific murders is disturbing. Just like telling Beth they would kill her and her family. They just didn't think they'd get caught and I think even blowing off steam in light of what was done should be taken seriously. We see that they did pull off the murder of 8 people and I'm sure that would have been seen as a big fish tail too if anyone overheard them talking about that before it happened. How does anyone really know what they would actually do in light of what they have done?

So sure she thought at the time it was blowing off steam and I am sure Chris N did too because neither of them believed the W's killed 8 people. I think Chris N genuinely didn't believe it until Jake confessed, and from what I heard from Beth seems her disbelief was likely self protecting of some sort... denial so she could function and then escape.

 

[Skully67]

The Appalachian culture and its values are typically rooted in family, elders, community, land, hard work ethic, and in some pockets deep religious beliefs. The behavior of protecting family and standing side by side even when family members disagree is also a norm in the region. Inside of every culture exists subcultures that are created based on each family or individuals personal life experience. They are the unwritten rules of how a family or unit operate and are created outside of written rules or laws we are governed by.

This is where ideology for safety, health, wealth and survival are created especially in economically challenged regions. The subculture for the 4 Wagner's became what AW and BW established for the boys based on their own historical experiences of family (Wagners, Carters, and Newcombs) and solutions (illicit activity). This is where as a unit they established their own norms, patterns of operation and beliefs.

As pointed out, neither boy chose to leave. Was this because AW instilled the notion the outside world is so much more dangerous and only she could protect them and their children?

The Appalachian culture is quite beautiful at its core as the care for family, friends and neighbors runs deep. It's a unique trait not easily replicated. If the residents of the hills and hollers know you, they will literally give the shirt off their back to lend a helping hand. If they don't know you, it takes time to trust you. Social Estrangement outside family and local community is a real facet in pockets of the region. If you are an outsider and break trust, you are typically no longer welcome. A unique angle to this in Appalachian culture is this rule does not typically apply to blood/family. Family is most generally always welcomed back home, and forgiveness is traditionally reserved for loved ones. The female victims here were not viewed as loved ones. They were not extended grace or forgiveness.

A unique aspect to Appalachia due to the family bonds is there is greater influence from elder family members and their life experiences as well. While this is can be valuable, it can cause units to be stuck in the past with only a fear of history repeating itself.

The encouragement to go into the outside world to learn, explore and grow as your own has evolved over the decades, but there are still subcultures in Appalachia where it is discouraged and no outsiders are trusted. I feel the R/G/M families and the local community showed us the lack of trust via the reaction to news outlets and LE that we observed in the early days. Can we blame them if we put ourselves in their shoes? Their family was gone, the world they felt safe in was disrupted and suddenly they are expected to trust the strangers coming in? Past strangers in these communities brought threats to land, and ripped apart local economies as legislation eradicated lifestyles due mostly to agriculture and environmental legislation. People are seen as coming in to take and disrupt, not help or give back.

To get to the specifics of this family, according to testimony AW experienced at the hands of her father abuse which triggered her to go into the military. I feel she at one time wanted out of the culture and behavior patterns of her family. Her mom stated she wanted to get away from it. I believe the young AW likely did. She did leave. She went into the military.

From what we have learned she was then assaulted in the military. Was this assault different from the type she experienced at the hands of her father which she was escaping or did it lead her to believe it was norm and happened everywhere? It seems it was alarming enough to cause her to return and she came back to her family, back to the trauma she attempted to escape.

In no way do I want to sugar coat Angie or her actions, but outside this forum, outside the crimes, looking solely at Angie, it would not be out of the norm for AW to exhibit protective behaviors that escalated over the years. Angie was a victim as well, but the path she chose for survival was found in illicit activities. Getting away with this for years set the foundation to perpetuate behaviors related to survival coming from illegal means. It ended with murder as a morally (not legally) acceptable solution to her latest problem.

I feel AW sought others she felt she could control so they couldn't "harm" her or her boys or her grandchildren. All along she was doing the greatest harm.

Her desire to protect herself and her boys in her mind meant limited exposure to a world outside of her. It is likely she grew very paranoid and her behaviors and thoughts snowballed over the years until they became her norm. Keep in mind her behavior was being triggered by past trauma and current state survival was being met via a life of crime. Until late age it sounds the boys only had family to learn from. My guess is they heard many times the world outside is evil and we need to stick together.

One point I would like to be sure to note, is while all females in Appalachia certainly do not experience what we have heard in court regarding abuse, unfortunately many do. It is an unspoken truth. Appalachia falls behind on female equality, independence and empowerment when compared to other parts of the US. Threats to long established gender norms and views are not well accepted.

Females that attempt to break the cycles are often viewed as rebellious. As HR, Tabby, and Beth made decisions that did not fall in line with AW or the family elders, they likely became perceived as such. An educated female, a female of her own views and beliefs was a threat to AW.

This is very important in this family as AW comes across IMO as having a very specific view of gender roles which can be common in the region and specifically rural Appalachia as compared to the more urban Appalachian communities.

The Appalachian culture tends to be very patriarchal and a female that would be perceived as stronger than AW would be a threat to her very existence and role as the Matriarch she desired to become.

I'm a 70+ female from Appalachia. I agree with most of your comment. I wasn't given opportunities like my male siblings. I was told my future was being pregnant and housekeeper. I didn't follow the path laid out for me. I went to college, got a good job, and created the life I wanted. I'm fiercely independent and rail at the thought of anyone controlling me.

 

[Tiff23fr]

BBM - I think this nails it. When we hear how George yelled at Bulvine about the bad people wanting to take him away, I could just imagine that being Angela when her boys were young. Angela and Billy both had several run ins with LE for various crimes while their boys were young. I can imagine the bad talking about outsiders started young with them also.

Yes, "Bad People" seemed to be everywhere except within that very home.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Re Beth's interview with BCI.. that interview was right after she fled when they first interviewed her. I think it's reasonable to conclude when you hear people talking about something like that, that it is blowing off steam unless they pull out a notebook and start laying out actual plans. I think Chris N thought the same thing.. just blowing off steam.. haha yeah I'd get a bullet proof bulldozer and bust you out of there. (fish stories comes to mind.. the longer you talk the larger the fish gets lol)

I do think it's eerie now though in hindsight. The fact that this family was even blowing off steam and telling big stories after they committed these horrific murders is disturbing. Just like telling Beth they would kill her and her family. They just didn't think they'd get caught and I think even blowing off steam in light of what was done should be taken seriously. We see that they did pull off the murder of 8 people and I'm sure that would have been seen as a big fish tail too if anyone overheard them talking about that before it happened. How does anyone really know what they would actually do in light of what they have done?

So sure she thought at the time it was blowing off steam and I am sure Chris N did too because neither of them believed the W's killed 8 people. I think Chris N genuinely didn't believe it until Jake confessed, and from what I heard from Beth seems her disbelief was likely self protecting of some sort... denial so she could function and then escape.

I think it is important to note that this is George's trial, not Jake's or Angie's.

Beth did not say George threatened to kill her. Jake and Angie did. No proof George heard it, in fact Beth specifically said her, Jake and Angie were present for that conversation. Guess George was out philandering with the ladies at that time.

Beth said she thought George was a blowhard, that he was bluffing when he threatened law enforcement, that he did not mean it. This is extremely important because it implies she had NO FEAR that George would kill her or anyone else.

It is also extremely important to note that Beth did not say that she thought Jake and Angie were bluffing when they threatened to kill her. She did not say she thought those two were blowhards and did not mean it when they threatened her. Very important because it shows a huge difference in Beth's mind as to what violence she thought Jake and Angie were capable of and what she did not think George was capable of as far as violence.

Another important thing to note here is the all important You are innocent until proved guilty in a court of law.

In all fairness that should be the mindset in this trial. Preconceived facts and beliefs are being blown up every day in this trial.

I think a lot of that thinking was due to AC. She took one simple statement of Beth's where George threatened law enforcement in which Beth said she thought he was bluffing and blew it up to mountain size in order for the judge to deny George bond because he was the most "vocal". Just like she is showing that burned DVR over and over to the jury implying it was how the R's were spied on when she knows full well it was not part of the murders, but bought by jake to install at the Peterson RD house. She said she knew it was bought to install in the Peterson Rd house in her opening statement. But she is hoping among all those umm's the jury will overlook or forget her saying that. She hopes if she shows it enough the jury will believe it was used to spy on the R's. Parker loudly confronted her with that ploy in court after the jury left.

Just like she introduced every gun they found at FWF, hours and hours of needless testimony, to try to make the jury believe they were the murder weapons, when she knew full well they were not. It got so bad the judge had to give the jury instructions that someone owning a lot of guns did not mean they were murderers.

Just like she introduced every single bullet casing found at the farm even though she knew full well 95% of them were the wrong caliber and had absolutely nothing to do with the murders.

Just like she claimed the W's were an enmeshed family and they all had the same bank accounts and finances. Instead we find out they all had separate bank accounts and credit cards and both Jake and George was writing Angie checks clearly marked child care. The fact that the boys were paying all the bills and buying all the food does not make an impression on me. They had to. They were the only ones working with two parents who were freeloading off them.

AC has pulled a lot of dirty tricks in this trial because her case against George is non existent so she has to resort to smoke and mirrors and overloading the jurors minds with useless testimony and evidence she knows had nothing to do with the murders, hoping the fact that she has no actual solid evidence will get lost among all the BS she is spinning in the jury's minds. No wonder Yost pushed her off on Pike County as fast as he could after he took office.

AC is trying to make this case fit her theory instead of presenting actual facts and evidence. Her treating the jury like they are dumb as a box of rocks may backfire on her in a big way.

JMO

 

[Pru2U]

She also said George had "yucky" friends he hung out with. Oh and he liked to go out with "who***es". But Beth being raised in an Amish community she may have thought women who wore skimpy clothing or who hung out partying with the guys were, as was said in the old days "loose".

LOL! Where do you get this stuff?

EA's testimony never once mentioned she saw or even knew of GW having any girlfriends (or friends that are girls). She testified about the lack of privacy in the home, specifically when it came to inappropriate questions or comments about sex, addressed directly to her or discussed in her presence. As one example, she recalled a conversation GW & BW had (while she was in the same room) about how they had used "" for sex.

And why would anyone find it "disturbing" if EA assumed JW & AW were a couple? What am I missing here?

EA was a phenomenal witness. Every single reporter, Tweeter, blogger & vlogger I saw RAVED about her. The big takeaway the rest of us got is how her testimony echoed Tabitha's experience within the household and was reminiscent of Hannah's experience (demonstrated through texts). So we're seeing family dynamics from the inside of the household as a whole -- repeated now 3 times. That's a big deal. Two of the women barely escaped with their lives, one did not. Whether or not George was singled out in her testimony, George was still part of that household and very much part of their experience.

Maybe the difference is, you're waiting for evidence of what George did while I'm looking straight at evidence of what George did not do. George did not intervene, defend or try to protect any of these girls living in the same household. Not even his own wife.

 

[Skully67]

I think it is important to note that this is George's trial, not Jake's or Angie's.

Beth did not say George threatened to kill her. Jake and Angie did. No proof George heard it, in fact Beth specifically said her, Jake and Angie were present for that conversation. Guess George was out philandering with the ladies at that time.

Beth said she thought George was a blowhard, that he was bluffing when he said that, that he did not mean it. This is extremely important because it implies she had NO FEAR that George would kill her or anyone else.

It is also extremely important to note that Beth did not say that she thought Jake and Angie were bluffing when they threatened to kill her. She did not say she thought those two were blowhards and did not mean it when they threatened her. Very important because it shows a huge difference in Beth's mind as to what violence she thought Jake and Angie were capable of and what she did not think George was capable of as far as violence.

Another important thing to note here is the all important You are innocent until proved guilty in a court of law.

In all fairness that should be the mindset in this trial. Preconceived facts and beliefs are being blown up every day in this trial.

I think a lot of that thinking was due to AC. She took one simple statement of Beth's where George threatened law enforcement in which Beth said she thought he was bluffing and blew it up to mountain size in order for the judge to deny George bond because he was the most "vocal". Just like she is showing that burned DVR over and over to the jury implying it was how the R's were spied on when she knows full well it was not part of the murders, but bought by jake to install at the Peterson RD house. She said she knew it was bought to install in the Peterson Rd house in her opening statement. But she is hoping among all those umm's the jury will overlook or forget her saying that. She hopes if she shows it enough the jury will believe it was used to spy on the R's. Parker loudly confronted her with that ploy in court after the jury left.

Just like she introduced every gun they found at FWF, hours and hours of needless testimony, to try to make the jury believe they were the murder weapons, when she knew full well they were not. It got so bad the judge had to give the jury instructions that someone owning a lot of guns did not mean they were murderers.

Just like she introduced every single bullet casing found at the farm even though she knew full well 95% of them were the wrong caliber and had absolutely nothing to do with the murders.

Just like she claimed the W's were an enmeshed family and they all had the same bank accounts and finances. Instead we find out they all had separate bank accounts and credit cards and both Jake and George was writing her checks clearly marked child care. The fact that the boys were paying all the bills and buying all the food does not make an impression on me. They had to. They were the only ones working with two parents who were freeloading off them.

AC has pulled a lot of dirty tricks in this trial because her case against George is non existent so she has to resort to smoke and mirrors and overloading the jurors minds with useless testimony and evidence she knows had nothing to do with the murders, hoping the fact that she has no actual solid evidence will get lost among all the BS she is spinning in the jury's minds. No wonder Yost pushed her off on Pike County as fast as he could after he took office.

AC is trying to make this case fit her theory instead of presenting actual facts and evidence. Her treating the jury like they are dumb as a box of rocks may backfire on her in a big way.

JMO

If I were on this jury, my mind would be overloaded with all this evidence, to the point I would be numb. I would then try to pick out from the pile the most significant things, to me anyway, and go with that. So far, I can't see the forest for all the trees.

 

[Chelly]

I wonder how the jury is thinking at this point seven weeks into the trial. Reporters, tweeters, bloggers and WS won't determine George's verdict. This Jury will make that decision

Of course the trial is far from over and there must be weeks and weeks worth of more evidence to come. However, I am always curious about what is in the minds of the jury.

ETA - At beginning of trial, Judge set aside 8-9 weeks on the court's calendar for this trial.

 

[gizmobtj]

I am betting the jury caught her testimony that George went out on weekends and stayed out all night partying. She also said George had "yucky" friends he hung out with. Oh and he liked to go out with "who***es". But Beth being raised in an Amish community she may have thought women who wore skimpy clothing or who hung out partying with the guys were, as was said in the old days "loose".

IMO she made George come off as a normal guy who worked hard, played hard and told some off color jokes. That is young men everywhere. Oh and he yelled and argued with Angie and Jake. I guess over his philandering ways since CN said Angie told George he was going to Hell for the way he lived.

I would be more concerned with why Beth believed Angie and Jake were a couple with a child the first few times she saw them in church. That is what is disturbing, not Georges partying with girls.

JMO

After she said "wh***s," she clarified she was referring to "prostitutes" and Billy and George

 

[NWLady]

Regarding the discussion of GWIV's weight and weight loss that has been talked about and that, in relation to walking down hallways in a trailer house, I went back and looked at autopsy reports of some of the victims. And according to those reports:
Frankie weighed 260 pounds and was 74 inches tall.
Chris Sr. weighed 222 pounds and was 71 inches tall.
Gary weighed 211-1/2 pounds and was 73 inches tall.
Kenneth weighed 228 pounds and was 70 inches tall.

And of note, of course, 3 of these men lived in trailers, and Kenneth lived in a 5th-wheel trailer/camper where it's been testifed to that he even had steps to go up to get into his bed. And IMO, it's obvioius they must have been able to easily move about in their trailers/camper as that's where they lived.

Also, I will be curious to see, if/when Billy goes to trial, if the same weight issues with him are discussed, as IMO, he was a much larger man (especially at the time of his arrest) than any of these men were, but have yet to hear how he may have manuevered about allegedly to move body/bodies down a hallway in a trailer.

This is all JMO, MOO, my observations, my thoughts, my opinions, etc.