OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #81

[arielilane]

Here she is coming in this morning from
@ldufour

https://twitter.com/jamespilcher

@local12

 

[pcrum12]

About what? He's testified about a lot of things during the trial. JMO, he told the truth on most things, but seemed evasive on others. He mentions shooting Chris Sr with the SKS (one shot hit and injured him) and says he heard 2 shots from Billy's gun from inside the trailer. Chris Sr was actually shot 9 times with Billy's gun.

I'm with the theory proposed by someone else here, that Jake actually was standing guard down near Frankie's trailer and didn't hear the shooting. GW3 fired the SKS and Billy, who was inside Chris Sr's trailer, fired the other, fatal shots.

JMO, they will end up with LWOP for all 3 Rhoden m

About what? He's testified about a lot of things during the trial. JMO, he told the truth on most things, but seemed evasive on others. He mentions shooting Chris Sr with the SKS (one shot hit and injured him) and says he heard 2 shots from Billy's gun from inside the trailer. Chris Sr was actually shot 9 times with Billy's gun.

I'm with the theory proposed by someone else here, that Jake actually was standing guard down near Frankie's trailer and didn't hear the shooting. GW3 fired the SKS and Billy, who was inside Chris Sr's trailer, fired the other, fatal shots.

JMO, they will end up with LWOP for all 3 Rhoden men.

I agree. I don't see the jury giving George 4 DP when the main shooter only gets LWOP

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/jamespilcher
Good morning from Pike Co. where the surprises never cease. Angela Wagner is here and will probably testify after they finish with BCI's Matt White. Angela is the mother who pleaded guilty to conspiracy and other charges and at least 30 years in prison


She has opted out from being on video - so I will try to catch everyone up at breaks. I'll also have a recap tonight on
@local12 at 5 and 6.

 

[arielilane]

"mother"

 

[Johnny B Bad]

"mother"

At least someone in jail is doing Angela Wagner eyebrows, she might be conning the cons, I doubt anyone is giving her concessions money

 

[ohioexpat63]

I guess if 4 is lucky theyll let mommy give him one last back scratch. Who knows, they may even let the two viait for a very brief period. Jmo

My how the mighty have fallen

Mr Junk's whitey tighties are still two sizes too small. Jmo

I do believe the emotion between mom and son could be overwhelming. It has been almost 4 yrs without physical contact. Maybe the camera will stay focused on 4 as mom enters the courtroom. Jmo

 

[ohioexpat63]

I cant listen to this. Ill read the outstanding viewpoints when posted. CHEERS!! Y'all have a great day

 

[arielilane]

On The Stand: Michael White - Firearms Expert - BCI

 

[arielilane]

On break until 11:00 am ET.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

The SKS rifle comes with the wooden stock shown in the picture it also is packed in heavy grease, I bought one when they was first sold in the USA,

 

[arielilane]

Photo #2 - Liz Dufour - Cincinnati Enquirer

https://twitter.com/Angenette5

 

[Skully67]

I wonder....

Since Junk will be judge starting in 2023, who will be judge for BW trial. Deering again, as an appointed judge, since he'll be retired then.

 

[arielilane]

Waiting for James' tweets...

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I've been reluctant to wade into this debate about mental health, but I think it has gotten a bit off kitler. Not every killer is a psychopath or has ASPD and not every psychopath or person with ASPD is a killer.

I think there is a stronger case for Obessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD, not OCD) for AW and JW given the control, the meticulous behavior, the mission oriented nature, the micromanaging of lives, the belief that there way is the right way and the only way, etc. There are lots of ways to get to killing people that don't involve ASPD. Not to say one does not exclude the other, but I dont see the impulsiveness of ASPD. Most clinical researchers now believe personality and personality disorders are on a spectrum, so symptoms of both would be possible but when I look at anything that remotely looks like a motive, I see OCPD. People with OCPD also tend to be super protective of their families because, according to Karen Horny, they Move Toward others for safety.

And one other thing tracks with OCPD -- the confessions. People with Cluster C disorders (Avoidant, Dependent and OCPD) are more likely to confess. And our two confession come from the ones who demonstrate those symptoms.

Also, think of little things. What on Earth does JW get for mouthing "I'm sorry" to the Rhoden family? His sentence can't be reduced. Forgiveness is a pipe dream. No one is going to like him any better or think he is less of a monster. So, what other reason other than remorse? A not-so-bright psychopath might taunt them and attack them and a bright one would likely be vacant. So, what is that if not remorse? Which is another OCPD offender quality.

Homicidal behaviour among people with avoidant, dependent and obsessive-compulsive (cluster C) personality disorder - PubMed

Cluster C personality disorders are rare, but not nonexistent, among homicide offenders. Observed differences in their backgrounds and post-offence behaviours indicate that they may have special needs.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

You make some powerful points. I do stand on my original point, though, that these crimes are best understood when we look at the extreme family dysfunction involved. One of the difficulties of looking through at the Wagners through a psychological lens is that family systems aren't "diagnosable" in the same way as psychologists diagnose individual people. This strikes me as analogous to the difficulty we have focusing on the Wagners as a crime family (hence, the charges of Aggravated Murder, Burglary and Conspiracy. But we want "proof" of what George did, specifically. Did he hold a door? Shoot someone after they were dead? Drive a car? Kill someone directly?

Regardless of what their individual disorders might be, we see here generational family dysfunction and criminality, manifesting in mass murder.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I

I think he tried to minimize GW4s involvement so one day 4 would be free. So, it's doubtful he was completely honest in details. If AWs proffer mostly mirrors JWs then It is over for 4 . No get out of jail free card. Jmo

Agree.

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/Angenette5

WATCH: Angela Wagner up next. She has opted "out" but we will have a feed of #GeorgeWagnerIV and any exhibits presented
@LawCrimeNetwork

 

[justtrish]

Oh wow so Angela is taking the stand! I am not sure if they are on break first or if she is on the stand now.

Sorry, I was not specific enough. Specifically about George 4 involvement.

I agree. I think without hearing the questions and his answers, it's hard to say what we would have picked up on as far as facial expressions, how long it took to respond, if he appeared to be thinking or if he was trying to avoid questions, etc. That really matters I think in this type of testimony. It did seem he was minimizing George's role, but we knew this from what AC said also. It didn't benefit him to lie, but trying to make George's role seem less than the others could possibly make Jake feel better about testifying against him.

As I've thought more about what Jake remembers about his relationship with Hannah. What we thought were lies very well could be his recollection of how things were. That doesn't mean he's lying. I think it very well could be how his brain remembers it so he can live with himself. What we might have said no way to, he may have told himself things like she didn't care about Sophia possibly getting molested so he could justify it in his mind.

I just don't see why he would agree to a deal where part of it is testifying truthfully, tell them where those guns were (that no doubt helped their case), and then lie on the stand, putting DP back on the table for him. Why take the deal in the first place then?

 

[Lonicera]

What do we know about Angela’s childhood? She would have been abused by her father: is that true? My apologies if this has been dealt with before.

 

[dgfred]

If your mind is a giant puzzle... with extrat pieces flying around.

I imagine you could make up stories and substitute/jam in different pieces to fit that certain story.

 

[Niner]

On The Stand: Michael White - Firearms Expert - BCI

I believe that should be Matthew White... and thanks for doing the tweets again!